Enhancement Proc Changes

I was using a 5.625PPM proc rate mentioned earlier in the thread. If that's incorrect, then whoops. 5.625 being what the proc rate would be with the same 25% PPM increase that was mentioned for other procs.

And lord only knows if someone would do that slotting, but I just wanted to show, at it's absolute most penalized, that it's still a decent proc rate.

Triumphant Insult doesn't have a chance to fire issue per se. It might be a quick low-hanging fruit thing for Synapse to change, or it might need to be adjusted on a separate pass through the procs for effect balancing. Depends on how much time Synapse has.

I feel your pain, good sir. I teach, and I have had a student ask me a question that I literally just answered for the class when it was asked by another student. The ability of humans to misread and obfuscate anything they read or hear is beyond imagining.

But hey, it's Friday! We can all breath deep and relax.

I'm aware that other powers can slot it. I was referring specifically to the proc. Getting significant benefit out of the proc requires an AoE power that takes accurate healing. Which is one power in the entire game.

Last I heard that proc works now but powers like seeker drones are bugged and can't take advantage of any procs that effect targets not IOs, not interface, not SBEs

Except that after a certain threshold is crossed, most high-recharge builds aim to reduce the recharge time of one or two specific high-cooldown powers while receiving no additional dps benefit from the majority of attacks in their regular attack chain. For example, if I pump my recharge through the roof on my Elec/Nin Stalker, having a sub-1-second recharge on Charged Brawl is providing no benefit to me in that specific power. I won't be hitting that button on cooldown.

But with your suggested change, the value of any procs placed in that power will continue to diminish as I attempt to reduce the cooldowns of other powers.

And as has previously been stated, involuntary increases to my recharge speed (through Speed Boost, Accelerate Metabolism, Chronoshift, et al) will push my recharge reduction as high as +400%. That does NOT mean I will be activating Charged Brawl every 1.43 seconds (3s / 5.0 + 0.83 activation time)!

While I understand your desire to limit the effect of recharge bonuses on the value of procs, you're really just ... killing procs. Their effectiveness will either scale positively or negatively with a character's recharge bonuses depending on how PPM is implemented; in live the situation is the former -- you're just suggesting changing it to the latter, arguably a worse situation in which players are punished for receiving buffs and shy away from most procs entirely.

The suggested change has...uh...changed since the first post. PPM will not be based on global recharge, only slotted recharge. Read through Synapse's posts for more information.

This was the feedback that I received repeatedly from you all during this thread. Which is why we've decided to only use recharge on a power from enhancement sources and alpha slots. Global recharge will not reduce proc chance. Take a look at previous posts for all the details

EDIT: Curses! Scooped by Sanguine Sentinel!

With global recharge not being counted, and a floor on minimum proc chance, I can say I'm liking the changes. It should balance procs better across various powers, and still give some interesting build choices.

Add my voice to the chorus of people praising Synapse for adjusting based on feedback in a very productive manner.

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Is that how the PPM procs work now? I'm not sure and that's part of why I'm asking. I also heard several other people ask about whether or not procs would be switching to actual activation time.

Personally I think using the same 10 second activation time that toggle powers use is kind of unfair to patches, since they can't be turned on all the time, but I wanted to find out for sure how they are actually intended to work before I start discussing it.

So any chance of an answer on this Positron?

I think we might be running into Design Intent on that issue. The devs intend for these types of procs to have a random element. I think moving things to a 95% cap is more likely to fly than no cap at all.

Why would you choose to make spiritual/agility alpha affect the proc chances?

You're not making Musculature affect the proc damage, so why would recharge alphas get punished?

I only have 2 concerns left about this change.

1) A significantly lower proc floor chance for higher PPMs relative to their original proc values in comparison to the proc floor chance for low PPMs relative to their original proc values.
--For example the proc floor of a 15% proc is 64.4% of it's original value, wheras the proc floor of a 33% proc is 40.72% of it's original value.

2) Spiritual and Agility alpha significantly harming proc rates for characters that took them.
--For example Greater Fire Sword with 89.9%% Recharge and a Hecatomb and Mako proc will have 81% and 54% chances to proc, respectively. With T4 Spiritual Alpha and those same circumstances it would only have 71% and 47% chance to proc respectively.

In many cases where I have taken Spiritual or Agility alpha I could be better off just building for more global recharge and picking a different alpha.


Any thoughts on these two issues Synapse?

I made the same mistake initially Synapse. It's a big thread. Perhaps you could edit the original OP to include a statement, "This list of changes is outdated please see: [link to post with current info]."

That might be true, but there's the issue of the apparent design intent of the PPM mechanic. Attempting to normalize proc rates for cycle times means there may need to be an allowance for the 100% rate, especially in cases that cannot cycle fast enough to fire the proc the intended number of times. If a proc is normalized around the idea it will fire 6 times a minute, there are certain powers that will never reach that 6 times per minute due to cycle time restrictions and others that could hit the intended rate, but only with a 100% rate.

Limiting the proc rate to 90%-95% of a number that's either the exact number of expected PPMs, or already less than the intended number of PPMs is something I'm not too keen on.

That gets to my argument of two mutually exclusive design intents, cannot be 100% vs normalized around a specified rate of fires per minute. With one of the design intents needing to go, I'm asking for the 'has to be random always' design to be scrapped in favor of the normalization PPM design.

Or, if you take Spiritual/Agility, you could remove any recharge enhancements in the powers that have procs.

That doesn't really work when you're trying to put together set bonuses. It's difficult if not impossible to avoid all the recharge in a set.

Based on what Synapse has posted so far, the new Performance Shifter Proc will be a 1.875 PPM (25% higher than the 1.5 that it uses now).

This will give a % chance to fire of (1.875*10)/(60*1) = 31.25% chance to trigger, which is about 50% higher than the flat 20% proc commonly used now.

As Kyriani said, that's not really an option when you're going for set bonuses. Recharge is internally integrated into sets, it's not something you can just extract all by itself.

Best case scenario you're 5 slotting, say, Hecatombs, you could change the dmg/rchg and replace it with the dmg. That would drop it down from 126 to 104, but that's still higher than what it would be without a Recharge alpha (89%).

However what if you need to 6 slot that set for your set bonuses, Then you're screwed, there is nothing that you would be able to remove without breaking your set bonus.

What you're saying wouldn't work.

Another thing to consider is that if you were to forgo set bonuses and absolve yourself of recharge in powers with procs, any time you exemplar down below lvl 45 you'll suffer a sever lack of recharge on your powers because you have no recharge slotted.

Ah. I was just confused then, because you had the 25% increase included in one example and not another. Looks like you're doing things right then.

To my knowledge, this is how procs work in patches, whether they are ppm or otherwise. It has, of course, not always been that way, but at some point they decided that having procs checking once every second in caltrops was a bit much. This is consistent with the behavior I've seen for both PPM and flat procs, and I have no reason to believe any changes are intended, since Synapse hasn't said anything about changing it.

I'm not sure the two are really that related, but I'm not sure how much it matters now. Since with the new system, making procs check more often will just drop the proc rate by a similar amount. So, if you think procs in patches are a bit anemic (and I'm not sure I'd disagree with you), that's not the answer.

-Morgan.

I wasn't sure if the ATOs will see an increase at all, and I'd seen an unchallenged mention of the increased Purple PPM value. If it stays the same, that'd be the rate, if it went up it'd likely be to match other purple procs.

That is a good question though. Would ATO procs be increased 20%-25% as has been mentioned for other procs, would they stay the same, or would they be more likely to get the same proc rate as others of the type?