So lets talk about redside teaming.
By
Abyssus,
Posted on: 2012-04-10 09:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Wut?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
I hate hate hate the redside story arcs, they are in general positivly punishing for a solo player who isnt a brute, scrapper or stalker.
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Seriously, what?
These days, I pretty much solo everything to 50. I have done that for a long time. Villain-side, I have soloed more Corruptors to 50 than anything else. I... have not had a problem. (And no, I don't IO them extensively, though I do fork out for some single goodies that help a lot, like a Miracle and a KB IO.)
I can't say a lot about how Dominators solo up these days, as I haven't played a lowbie one much since they were changed, but are you really suggesting MMs have a hard time getting to 50 solo? Really?
I will say that I think "legacy" heroside foes are generally easier, especially below level 40. Arachnos and Longbow are way more annoying than Family or Freakshow, and they're everywhere. But while I'll concede it's harder, it's not what I would call "punishing". Not in general. (Don't get me started on mid-level PPD SWAT. Whoever created them was a bad, bad person.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This is sort of where I stand, I don't mind being solo, it's just that the story arcs on Redside kinda suck. The Dr Graves arc was actually great, I loved that one, because it wasn't all "ohhhh let's rob a bank then beat up Girl Scouts outside of WalMart and sell their cookies for PROFIT!". That really isn't my idea of a villain. Granted, I haven't gotten through more than level 30 of redside content so maybe it gets better, but thus far the stories have not been great.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
What we need is more redside arcs where you're not the lackey. I think that is what started driving people away from redside in the first place. We need more actual villainous content. Co-op arcs generally have the villains working towards some "greater good," which isn't what a decent amount of villain players want.
Give me more content where my character can be truly evil, and I'll play there more. |
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No I just forgot to mention MM's since I dont play them anymore. They are easy to level but are a joke, a bad joke for anything incarnate. Id didnt mention tanks either but they arent hard to solo either.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Wut?
Seriously, what? These days, I pretty much solo everything to 50. I have done that for a long time. Villain-side, I have soloed more Corruptors to 50 than anything else. I... have not had a problem. (And no, I don't IO them extensively, though I do fork out for some single goodies that help a lot, like a Miracle and a KB IO.) I can't say a lot about how Dominators solo up these days, as I haven't played a lowbie one much since they were changed, but are you really suggesting MMs have a hard time getting to 50 solo? Really? I will say that I think "legacy" heroside foes are generally easier, especially below level 40. Arachnos and Longbow are way more annoying than Family or Freakshow, and they're everywhere. But while I'll concede it's harder, it's not what I would call "punishing". Not in general. (Don't get me started on mid-level PPD SWAT. Whoever created them was a bad, bad person.) |
I was more refering to Blasters, Defenders, controllers, Dominators and Corruptors who get absolutly beat on by the excessive status effects of longbow, arachnos, and cot which make up most of the missions.
Heroes do have Tsoo and Cot, but they arent all that common, and Outcast, family, freaks are really easy mobs.
I dont like soloing redside at all.
The devs seem to think they can put hard content in the same... area as legacy easier content and people will actually choose to do the harder, longer, less rewarding content....
um.... yeah.... NO!
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Apparently. I never have problems teaming redside, mostly because the groups I hang with on Union play both sides, along with having a few SGs there so...|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Is this entire thread out of touch? Has anyone actually tried forming a team redside, or has everyone just stood around watching the Broadcast channel hoping for someone to announce a team looking for more?
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Yeah, this whole 'omg redside is dead!' has been a myth since forever. And it's still not true. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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What difficulty setting do you attempt to solo at?
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
No I just forgot to mention MM's since I dont play them anymore. They are easy to level but are a joke, a bad joke for anything incarnate. Id didnt mention tanks either but they arent hard to solo either.
I was more refering to Blasters, Defenders, controllers, Dominators and Corruptors who get absolutly beat on by the excessive status effects of longbow, arachnos, and cot which make up most of the missions. Heroes do have Tsoo and Cot, but they arent all that common, and Outcast, family, freaks are really easy mobs. I dont like soloing redside at all. The devs seem to think they can put hard content in the same... area as legacy easier content and people will actually choose to do the harder, longer, less rewarding content.... um.... yeah.... NO! |
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Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
red side has a LOT more status effects starting at much lower levels than blue side, which can be annoying.
but hard?
c'mon now.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
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Wait, what? Exactly how long has it been since you played a MM?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
No I just forgot to mention MM's since I dont play them anymore. They are easy to level but are a joke, a bad joke for anything incarnate.
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There have been quite a few changes made since the Incarnate system launched and MMs are pretty durable now. Not that it's really relevant since virtually all Incarnate content is co-op anyway, but MMs are no worse for Incarnate content than any other content now.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
You think it's bad now?
Go back in time about 3-4 years, where you couldn't find a decent team no matter how hard you tried. The only players on redside were the 12 year olds who thought "omg villins r so cool" and thus played like total buffoons. God help you if you were trying to go from level 10 to 16 and had to try to find a good team in Cap, or any team at all for that matter. The most you could hope for was some kind, generous Mastermind to let you on their team so you could pretend to help while their robots beat everything into goo.
Not to mention villainside gets the worst assortment of enemies in the game. What's that? You want some Warriors or Freakshow?
Ha ha nope, you get more Arachnos. Longbow every now and then just to mix things up. Add some CoT missions if you get lucky.
And that was back before the pvp nerf, when the good players still played! Thankfully side switching has made leveling as a villain a bit more feasible. The storylines are loads better on villainside, but that's probably cause it's easier to make good evil mission than it is to make good heroic missions. Zones are still a nightmare to navigate, and enemies are still a grab bag of unfun.
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Totally with Guy on this one.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Is this entire thread out of touch? Has anyone actually tried forming a team redside, or has everyone just stood around watching the Broadcast channel hoping for someone to announce a team looking for more?
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In fact, claiming there are more players blueside does not actually mean as much as people seem to think..since a good portion of those 'more players' are new players, lowbies, ae farmers, ae nubs, etc etc. I don't think anyone could argue that, excluding AE, blueside has WAY more farming maps, so obviously the greater portion of farmers are going to be there.
Redside DOES have less people, but I would say that like 90% of the ones it does have, WANT to be there. Of course some people like to solo, but given that all the others will know redside has less people..they should be quite eager to join a team..I know I am.
Obviously some times you just want to log on, zone, find a quick pick up team and not think to much. Nothing wrong with that, but this constant 'omg I can never find a team' is just garbage. Even on 'dead' servers, EVERY time I have wanted and tried to form a team..it has worked. Every. Single. Time.
Get sick of hearing this. Use search, make a team.
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Pfft, really? Other content doesn't have my minions disappear in one or two hits, doesn't neuter my entire IO Def build to the point I might as well have not bothered, and doesn't actively penalise me for having my pets in bodyguard mode (Still looking at you, Keyes)|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Wait, what? Exactly how long has it been since you played a MM?
There have been quite a few changes made since the Incarnate system launched and MMs are pretty durable now. Not that it's really relevant since virtually all Incarnate content is co-op anyway, but MMs are no worse for Incarnate content than any other content now. |
It doesn't help that the pet A.I. is so damn screwy, and has been for ages now. There is a reason that I never play Alpha anymore; it's more chore than fun, getting things to work the way they SHOULD, not the way they decide they want to go today.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I didn't even notice that gem the first time round.|
Originally Posted by dougnukem
This right here is where your issue is. What other reason would you play redside then? I'm curious as to the logic here.
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Yeah, OP? Why are you playing redside if you hate it? There are words for that kind of thing, you know...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Maybe you should read the thread.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
In fact, claiming there are more players blueside does not actually mean as much as people seem to think..since a good portion of those 'more players' are new players, lowbies, ...
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The problem the OP posted was getting to level 35. He needs to play with lowbies, not incarnate farmers.
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Maybe YOU should read my post..and then try replying and actually making sense Dug. And try not cherry picking quotes to make your..point? If you had one, I cant find it. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Maybe you should read the thread.
The problem the OP posted was getting to level 35. He needs to play with lowbies, not incarnate farmers. |
I stated that blueside has more farmers..which it does. Why would this have ANY bearing on the OP finding a team..at any level, assuming he wasnt looking to BE farmed? Oh and dont forget a huge amount of the lowbies blueside are just farming DFB, over and over. Which I guess is true to a degree redside also..again, hence the idea you make your own team..
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Okay, i haven't noticed minions being that much more delicate in iTrials than regular content since the reduction in damage to minions from many iTrial attacks. i also wasn't aware that MM Def IO builds were even more penalized than all other ATs, who also have issues with defense being less effective. (Like my IOd out the wazoo Widow who can still be dropped in two hits without outside support. Not as often after getting all three shifts, but before that could be very squishy even with 55%+ defense.) Bodyguard mode being less useful in several trials and (non-unique) defense issues aside, most of these problems sound like general gameplay issues, not anything specific to Incarnate content, which is what the OP was on about.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Pfft, really? Other content doesn't have my minions disappear in one or two hits, doesn't neuter my entire IO Def build to the point I might as well have not bothered, and doesn't actively penalise me for having my pets in bodyguard mode (Still looking at you, Keyes)
It doesn't help that the pet A.I. is so damn screwy, and has been for ages now. There is a reason that I never play Alpha anymore; it's more chore than fun, getting things to work the way they SHOULD, not the way they decide they want to go today. |
Honestly, if Shubbie doesn't like the stories i'm not sure why they even play redside. The zones tend to be nearly as samey as blueside zones, but more consistently dingy, overcast, and/or run-down. And with fewer players.
People overall tend to prefer to think of themselves as being the good guys, so i don't see any effective way to get more people to play villains without offering disproportionate rewards for playing redside. i do think that redside has had better stories on average even if there is a lack of arcs aimed at satisfying baby-eating genocidal sociopaths who revel in cruelty, destruction, and violence for its own sake.* (Anything less just isn't EVIL enough.*)
St. Martial especially could use a facelift to make the all the main streets and public brighter and glitzier with the seamy parts being the back alleys and areas well off the main drag. Really it should be brighter, cleaner and flashier looking than Founders' Falls for anyone on the main roads or at the public attractions.
*These are not actually my views, but the views that are expressed by some players whenever redside content is discussed. Personally i find that sort of villainy to be simplistic and trite. To the extent that i make villains they tend to be more pragmatic and mercenary or hold ideals at odds with conventional laws, either due to their extremity or their divergence from the status quo or simply due to innate nature or insanity.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I have a Mind/Psi Dom in Praetoria, who is currently running repeatable missions to get up to level 30 in time for I23. She has been ridiculously easy to solo pretty much from level 1. The variety of controls means that there's always something available to neutralize mobs. I won't say she's blindingly fast, but she's been extraordinarily safe.
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Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Eh, I still want to solo through a full Prae storyline, then First Ward, and then eventually Night Ward to get the full experience. I'm just hung up a concept / powerset combo that'll be less painful than pulling teeth.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
So why I want to play redside is I have some friends and a vg
Someone asked what level I solo at for blue it's usually +0 x4 for villain it's usually +0 x1
There really is very little actual difficulty
But red is just slow compared to blue
I usually get almost double leveling speed
On blue
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
You solo blueside at 0 and 4..red at 0 and one...and then say you level faster there? Sounds pretty obvious. And if its so easy, why not take the plunge and go up to +1? Crazy notion I know..
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Oddly enough, I have a mind/psi redside whose concept is that of a former augur, and with all her controls she really is safe to chug along with. Hmm, I might have to give some other dominator concepts a thought too.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I have a Mind/Psi Dom in Praetoria, who is currently running repeatable missions to get up to level 30 in time for I23. She has been ridiculously easy to solo pretty much from level 1. The variety of controls means that there's always something available to neutralize mobs. I won't say she's blindingly fast, but she's been extraordinarily safe.
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I typically play blue side on Virtue and it's been a couple of years since I experienced invites raining down from the sky. Not even during double experience weekends.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It's never going to be like playing on a busy server blue side, where invites rain down from the sky, but if you invest a little effort you can usually round up a team fairly quickly.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Someone asked what level I solo at for blue it's usually +0 x4 for villain it's usually +0 x1
But red is just slow compared to blue I usually get almost double leveling speed On blue |
Yes well I have to set the levels at that because Its pretty easy to solo something like freaks,warrior,council,family or outcasts at x4 and have to go x1 for arachnos, cot and Longbow.
Blueside is mostly freaks, council, family between 20-35
Redside is mostly Arachnos, Cor and longbow between 20-35
Hm..... imagine that..
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Sometimes I do based on build, at, level range, total speed.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
You solo blueside at 0 and 4..red at 0 and one...and then say you level faster there? Sounds pretty obvious. And if its so easy, why not take the plunge and go up to +1? Crazy notion I know..
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But generally I dont start turning it up more than that till post 30.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Redside is alive and well as far as I can see. I run exclusively roleplaying teams and still fill them to eight players relatively easily.
Granted, the "Redside is Dead!" that some players feel compelled to scream at the top of their lungs has caused the active population to be significantly lower than blueside.
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I remember enjoying fighting CoT red-side MUCH more than blueside, because those spectral demons and their ridiculous -ToHit were almost unheard of, redside. We got those easy-peasy Nerva Spectral Demons instead.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Yes well I have to set the levels at that because Its pretty easy to solo something like freaks,warrior,council,family or outcasts at x4 and have to go x1 for arachnos, cot and Longbow.
Blueside is mostly freaks, council, family between 20-35 Redside is mostly Arachnos, Cor and longbow between 20-35 Hm..... imagine that.. |
But lately, it seems that every red-side CoT mission is 75% spectral demons... so now it sucks as much as blue-side ever did.
Can we get the migraine-inducing blue caves too? Might as well go all in!
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I know that on virtue and freedom you'll have very little trouble getting a team redside. Granted, it is less populated than blueside, but it still has plenty enough players to form tip teams, radio teams, and every single SF as well as through story arcs.
It is slightly harder on redside, but so far I've been able to solo a stalker, dom, both SoAs, and a PB through it. This is at levels befiore IOs, so I do wonder what some player's deals are.
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