Any way a Rogue can access Echo: DA and Galaxy?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-04-05 21:37 in Player Questions
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This is the only way to get to echoes for a rogue. Have a mission there. However, fewer and fewer missions will direct players there because they're fixing them. (No missions are supposed to take place in an echo.)
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Originally Posted by Defragment
Is there any way, besides basically finding someone with a mission to old DA where I can use Mission teleport, to get my Rogue into the Echo zones?
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Then basically Rogues cannot enter Echo: Galaxy City nor Echo: Dark Astoria? Well, I have to say that's sort of a bummer. Hopefully someday they fix that. I know logically it doesn't make sense to have a portal to them in red side's Ouroboros since they were blue side zones. Still, one of my Rogues used to role play there on Virtue. Bummer.
Right now the only way I know of is through the Citadel Task Force and the Mission Teleporter, though there may a few old missions that still send you there.
I believe it's a technical limitation that has something to do with Ouroboros being the only exit there as for why rogues can't get access to the Echoes through their own Ouroboros. Unless they intend on adding rogue/villain only clones of the Echoes, anyway (which would probably be very low on a priority list).
Funfact: Echo: DA is actually DA, just renamed. The "original" DA no longer exists in perfect preservation on the live servers.
Another funfact: The Citadel TF bug should be fixed in the next patch, and send you to Talos instead.
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The Echo: DA IS the old DA. It is nothing like the current version. It (like the Galaxy City Echo) exists mainly as a source of exploration and history badges, many of which are needed for hero accolades.
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
Funfact: Echo: DA is actually DA, just renamed. The "original" DA no longer exists in perfect preservation on the live servers. |
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@Inquisitor
By "perfect" preservation, I meant original zone gates (and would have meant contacts if the old DA actually had any). Same case with Galaxy - there's no "perfectly preserved" version of Galaxy on live with the contacts and gates. They literally renamed them rather than creating a new version with the echoes. Just thought it was interesting, personally.
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Ah, I misread your earlier post as saying that the Echo was the same map as the new DA.
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
By "perfect" preservation, I meant original zone gates (and would have meant contacts if the old DA actually had any). Same case with Galaxy - there's no "perfectly preserved" version of Galaxy on live with the contacts and gates. They literally renamed them rather than creating a new version with the echoes. Just thought it was interesting, personally.
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@Inquisitor
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So... you're surprised that chose to NOT create a whole new zone that would not be used for missions, etc. and instead renamed the old map, thus accomplishing their goal of a place for the plaques and badges to be in a fraction of the time?
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
By "perfect" preservation, I meant original zone gates (and would have meant contacts if the old DA actually had any). Same case with Galaxy - there's no "perfectly preserved" version of Galaxy on live with the contacts and gates. They literally renamed them rather than creating a new version with the echoes. Just thought it was interesting, personally.
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Can a Rogue enter a Supergroup Base if they're in a team lead by a member of a supergroup which has the permission set to allow team leaders' teams to enter their base?
If so, a Rogue could enter Echo: DA and Echo: Galaxy via supergroup teleporter.
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Actually, they did create a new version for the echo, but they also removed the contacts from the old Galaxy.
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Rogues can't enter Hero bases and Vigils can't enter Villain bases.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Can a Rogue enter a Supergroup Base if they're in a team lead by a member of a supergroup which has the permission set to allow team leaders' teams to enter their base?
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Originally Posted by Defragment
I know logically it doesn't make sense to have a portal to them in red side's Ouroboros since they were blue side zones.
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To me, "logically" it does make sense. Comic book logic, anyway. If it's just an "echo," why can't Rogues and Villains visit? It really doesn't seem like an issue to me, from any story or RP perspective. (I'm sure there's still technical hurdles...)
But anyway, yes, soon-ish, I hope the devs put some effort into doing this.
First of all, Rogues and Villains can not enter hero side Ouroborus. Period. Second, Galaxy City and the old Dark Astoria were previously only accessible by heroes.
The old GC and DA were previously accessible by Rogues, but not any more. Which is the issue.
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
The old GC and DA were previously accessible by Rogues, but not any more. Which is the issue.
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OK my mistake. By way of Pocket D/Underground Imperial to get to Talos you could access old Dark Astoria, and by way of Pocket D you could access King's Row to get to old Galaxy City as a rogue. I checked around on the wiki and found this out. I believe I started playing since a couple days after the game went free-to-play so forgive the lack of knowledge. I was not here before Galaxy was destroyed.
The suggestion does make a lot of sense though. I see no reason why there is no Echo: Galaxy/DA in the villain Ouroborus.
When they started making the echos I made sure that my villain group had the SG beacon badge for those zones as I was afraid they wouldn't be accessible any more. Not that having the badge means anything, but I collect.
Honestly, they really need to just combine the two Ouroboros zones into one, rather than have the contacts in two places at once(which are still the same place and time outside of time; time travel makes the brain hurt).
They have the code in place in the game already necessary to sort the arcs int he pillar by alignment so that you can't do opposite alignment stuff(though it would actually make sense to allow everyone to do all alignment content through flashbacks regardless of alignment as some sort of "alternate past" as flashbacks already use as an explanation).
They just haven't done it already for the same reason that stops them from fixing bugs that don't completely break an important part of the game...."it doesn't make us more money, so it isn't high priority".
That is what is going to bite them in the end with every part of this game. They neglect things in favor of new things for more money.
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Yep. The original Faultline, Rikti Crash Site, and Paragon Dance Party all still exist in game. There's been a track record of leaving the originals exactly the way they have been in CoH, so it took me slightly by surprise.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
So... you're surprised that chose to NOT create a whole new zone that would not be used for missions, etc. and instead renamed the old map, thus accomplishing their goal of a place for the plaques and badges to be in a fraction of the time?
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Just like I said in another thread; you're spouting nonsense again. You don't know why they make the business decisions they do - you're just making things up.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
They just haven't done it already for the same reason that stops them from fixing bugs that don't completely break an important part of the game...."it doesn't make us more money, so it isn't high priority".
That is what is going to bite them in the end with every part of this game. They neglect things in favor of new things for more money. |
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It's not all nonsense. They should have one Ouroboros for both alignments. It could be just like pocket D. Then folks wouldn't have to go through the whole hassle of changing alignments to scope out the other sides content. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Just like I said in another thread; you're spouting nonsense again. You don't know why they make the business decisions they do - you're just making things up.
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Let's try not to suggest people have no basis in fact for their opinions. They are opinions and easily recognized as such.
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@Ukase
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My guess as to why they didn't simply do Galaxy City like they did Dark Astoria is the old tutorial, which still has characters in it.
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Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
Yep. The original Faultline, Rikti Crash Site, and Paragon Dance Party all still exist in game. There's been a track record of leaving the originals exactly the way they have been in CoH, so it took me slightly by surprise.
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Given how the problem was explained, one of two things would have to happen for that to be done:|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Honestly, they really need to just combine the two Ouroboros zones into one, rather than have the contacts in two places at once(which are still the same place and time outside of time; time travel makes the brain hurt).
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- A serious coding effort to change some bedrock principles on how missions work.
- Going through 8 years worth of missions, making sure to not miss a single one, and change the mission requirements. Only then they have to also change every non-cooperative zone in the game, including Ouro and the fragile base system to accept everyone.
Just taking an educated guess here, but are you willing to shell out the few hundred thousand to a few million dollars (admittedly, getting into millions would be an outside possibility) and the potential increased workload it would likely need to have the issue fixed? I don't think they currently have the staff to get it done without sacrificing a couple years without content to get it done.
Give me a break.
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They, and you, are WAY over-thinking the problem.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Given how the problem was explained, one of two things would have to happen for that to be done:
Just taking an educated guess here, but are you willing to shell out the few hundred thousand to a few million dollars (admittedly, getting into millions would be an outside possibility) and the potential increased workload it would likely need to have the issue fixed? I don't think they currently have the staff to get it done without sacrificing a couple years without content to get it done. Give me a break. |
They have the code in place in other parts of the game to make it very very simple.
1) How do they prevent hero/villain alignments from having access to opposite alignment zones?
They have the active object, a door in this case, check the alignment of the character before allowing them through.
They could simply put all missions on the same Ouroboros pillar under "if, then" statements that show only the proper list for their specific alignment.
It's really that simple.
2) How do they get contacts to recognize when a player is a rogue/vigilante and thus allow or disallow missions?
They have code in place to check alignment for that as well.
This could be applied to every arc in the pillar.
I think number 1 is likely the simplest and least time-consuming. It would definitely work.
As for the menders, they could just be coded like any other contact to check alignment, as they do, and bring up the proper arc.
As for the portal out of Ouroboros....they can just use the same code to check alignment as the pillars would with number 1 above to make sure only the correct zones are shown.
It would not take a major rewrite of anything, let alone the entire game.
Edit:
This is a bit of example code, though I am unsure of the syntax and actual functions as it has been years since I did any coding.
if (alignment == hero)
. cout>HeroMissionList
. cout>NeutralMissionList
elseif (alignment == vigilante)
. cout>HeroMissionList
. cout>NeutralMissionList
elseif (alignment == villain)
. cout>VillainMissionList
. cout>NeutralMissionList
elseif (alignment == rogue)
. cout>RogueMissionList
. cout>NeutralMissionList
endif
(I put the periods in to retain spacing.)
My memory of specific coding structure is fuzzy, but I believe that is close to how it would be, aside from the fact that it wouldn't be a simple "cout" function and would instead be the code that shows the list of missions available.
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Here's a basis in fact for my opinion.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
It's not all nonsense. They should have one Ouroboros for both alignments. It could be just like pocket D. Then folks wouldn't have to go through the whole hassle of changing alignments to scope out the other sides content.
Let's try not to suggest people have no basis in fact for their opinions. They are opinions and easily recognized as such. |
The Devs have said before that Ouroboros is a dirty dirty hack. I can't recall if it was something said in a uStream or at the Player Summit, but they did say that as the reason why they haven't combined them.
That's why the "simple" solutions proposed by so many players won't work.
It doesn't matter how many players say that the Devs are overthinking it, the fact remains that this is what we've been told by the people that have actually seen the game code and know what would be required to change it.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Just like I said in another thread; you're spouting nonsense again. You don't know why they make the business decisions they do - you're just making things up.
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It seems pretty obvious to me why they have not fixed a lot of issues, especially ones they claim are "low priority", given the nature of humans.
1) They don't make "more" money from fixing things.
They just avoid losing money, but they lose more money(in opportunity cost, if I remembered the correct term) by not making new things to sell even if they lose money because of problems with old things.
2) It's easier to make new things than it is to fix previous things you thought you had working properly.
Whether it is actually easier or better or not, they avoid working on things that do not have obvious solutions because of the indeterminate amount of time it would take.
I don't need to know how the game works when I know how the human mind works because I know how my own mind works and have observed many other people's actions and words.
I had a Rogue logged out in DA before Issue 22 hit. After, she was still in the old DA, the Echo version so I know it's possible to be there. What I've come to find is the Echo portal in Ouro isn't red side.. unless I'm just not finding it.
Is there any way, besides basically finding someone with a mission to old DA where I can use Mission teleport, to get my Rogue into the Echo zones?