6 Common Movie Arguments That Are Always Wrong


Aett_Thorn

 

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Originally Posted by Chazzmatazz View Post
I'm not.
all LIES!


 

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People usually respond by saying, "Sure, it made a lot of money, but ..." But nothing. That's the sole reason major studios make movies. You and all your friends hated it? Nobody cares. All the critics hated it? Nobody cares. Some people liked it enough to put down close to a billion dollars worldwide. I'm not saying it's a good movie, or that the sequel has any artistic merit. I'm saying the studio would be stupid to not make one. They don't make movies to get street cred with you, or so they can sleep at night with a clear artistic conscience.
Good stuff.


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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid View Post
This article wasn't very good. I didn't laugh once during reading it, and half the time I don't find those arguments adequately debunked.
This. Especially the "You have to have read it" one. Sometimes things just can't be conveyed as well on big screen, or AREN'T. So the fans may find something terrific that other people miss just because, yes, they haven't read the source material. That isn't always a fallacy.


"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"

 

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I think they were fairly correct, just not in the way they made their argument. "You have to read the book" should only apply to minor stuff. When you leave things like important plot details or character development in the source material it makes for poor cinema unless you've read the book. obviously there are time and budget constraints so not everything can be hit, but in general a movie should be fairly self contained and at least somewhat self explanatory so that most people won't be lost when watching. Viewers shouldn't be left asking questions like "Who is that?" or "Why did that happen?" and have the answer be "it was in the book". if you put it in the movie it needs to be there for good reason and needs to be justified, otherwise it's poor story telling.

There's a difference between "you understand things -better-" with the source material and "you -need- to read it to understand it". It's ok if you can appreciate it more for a fuller experience having read it, but it shouldn't be -required-, the movie shouldn't be lacking if you haven't read it. That was their point, but they didn't argue it very well.


 

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I can agree with that.


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I don't think we need a Cracked article to point out how inane internet arguments can be. God knows how many times I've seen someone bemoan Hollywood's lack of originality, then in another thread post how excited they are for Yet Another Batman Movie.


 

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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
I don't think we need a Cracked article to point out how inane internet arguments can be. God knows how many times I've seen someone bemoan Hollywood's lack of originality, then in another thread post how excited they are for Yet Another Batman Movie.
we don't, but the humor is a breast of fresh air


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
a breast of fresh air
Pics or it didn't happen.


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That'll do.


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
This. Especially the "You have to have read it" one. Sometimes things just can't be conveyed as well on big screen, or AREN'T. So the fans may find something terrific that other people miss just because, yes, they haven't read the source material. That isn't always a fallacy.
I think this one isn't examined as carefully as it should be. Sometimes this objection is legitimate, and sometimes not.

Its legitimate when the missing piece is critical to the flow of the plot: the movie shows you A and then jumps to C and C is jarring because without B C appears to come out of nowhere. It breaks up the sense of continuity.

Its not legitimate when the missing piece is required to counter an objection after the fact. The movie goes from A to B to C, and it seems to flow but then you realize that D was more likely than C. So why C; why not D? Knowing E would tell you why C and not D, but E was left out.

That's a much more difficult objection to make, because movies normally *present* stories, they don't *justify* them. The movie is not an argument with armchair story-writers having to explain why they made this decision and not that one. Movies presume receptive audiences. If someone treats viewing a movie like an argument the director lost, of course all sorts of things will appear to be "missing" that aren't really.

Because movies tend to be abbreviated from source material when translated, you will never get the full story on screen that might have been in a book. In that case, the movie has to focus on the elements of the plot most critical to progressing the story. Side issues will be necessarily truncated. Objections that the movie is incomplete at the periphery and therefore not a "complete story" in the judgment of the critic are, in my opinion, justifiably dealt with by asking the critic to review the original story in all its detail, and judge the movie based on its ability to extract the key elements required while leaving some details hanging or omitted.

In other words, "its explained in the book" is ok when the detail is not central to the story, and not ok when it is. Although that's an oversimplification.


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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post

well played sir.../em golf clap


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There are plot holes, and there are nits. Which is which may be a matter of perspective.


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Someone I know just loves watching movies like Star Wars or superhero movies just to rip them apart for all the laws of physics that they defy or break.

Example: he's critical of the fight between Anakin and Obi in Revenge of the Sith, the best of the prequels, and perhaps one of the more epic sword fights in hollywood history. He's making snide comments about how the lava doesn't splash on them at all when the forcefields drop or things collapse or how the overall heat on that volcanic planet should have fried them or left them too dehydrated to fight. I just tell him, "here's a hint: THE FORCE"

Or Superman Returns, when he rescues the plane and argues how Lois should be dead from all the bouncing around, how all the passengers should be dead for assorted reasons and how the plane should have been reduced to fragments in the stadium as Superman was stopping its momentum. Can't argue with all that, but I prefer to point out to him the greater illogical flaw of how Lois is still under the effects of the Jedi Amnesia Kiss that Superman gave her in Superman 2, and gave her again in Superman 4 when she remembered, yet she has a kid and knows that it is the son of Superman, yet doesn't remember their time at the Fortress and can't figure out Clark is Superman?


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
To quote El Generalissimo: I am suuuuper gay, but I would totally switch for her!

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I never realized Lion King was a Hamlet ripoff before...


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What gets me about movies made from source material that I've read is when motivations aren't clear in the movie, leaving you to remember why people did things in the book. Take the recent Hunger Games movies. There is no explanation for why Haymitch is how he is. Or why Katniss decides to pretend to be in love with Peeta. Those kinds of things becoming jarring to me as the movie progresses. But I know that my fiancee doesn't mind those things at all. To me, it can ruin a movie when somebody does something that seems to make no sense at all to me, but she can ignore those things.

So that kind of argument can become very subjective, because some people don't mind the lack of peripheral detail, whereas I very much notice that it is missing.



Meanwhile, I like the kind of 'easter eggs' in movies. Stuff that's not really relevant to the plot or the peripherals, but is nice to have in there for people to find if they really know the source material.


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