Comments on Power Sets


Adelie

 

Posted

I notice that since the Market opened there have been several new powersets offered. I do wish that things had progressed this fast before the market, but, to invoke the spirit of Adam Smith, market forces do drive commodity availability. As least now we are getting some new power sets, LOL.

I do notice a similarity of creation. Until the new Beastmaster power set, most of them have been variations on a theme, weapons mostly. I love the new sets, but guys, superheroes are about more than weapons! They are even about more than time based attacks and dark manipulation attacks! I wonder if you are ever going to give a try at doing some traditional comic book powers like Stretching, Shrinking, Growing, and shape change. Admitted, these would be graphic intensive power sets, but I don't see why this can't be handled!

Anyway, thanks for what you have done, and I'll continue to enjoy whatever I get! Particularly, thanks for the Beastmaster. I have not played it yet, but I know I'm going to enjoy it!


 

Posted

While this is entirely... speculation... I would definitely like to say that non-weapon sets are on the way.

  • One's probably a proliferation; the artists won't have to do much.
  • One will work great for those who love the outdoors.
  • Spider-Man of all people had one once.
  • They tried this one once before, but it didn't work.
  • I can't think of the last one.
On the other hand, would it kill them to make some Toxic-themed attack sets? )-:


 

Posted

I would like to see an Eye beam Blast set. That's a classic we have yet to see.

Animations seem easy.
Most would have similar beams.
The AOE Crosseyed could use the Beam rifle Cutting beam GFX.


Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM

Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beggly View Post
I wonder if you are ever going to give a try at doing some traditional comic book powers like Stretching, Shrinking, Growing, and shape change. Admitted, these would be graphic intensive power sets, but I don't see why this can't be handled!
Graphics intensive is exactly the problem.

For each new powerset, 9 Animations + Blast/Beam/Glow/Particle effects must be crafted, one for each power.

But it's more than that. The animation/graphics have to work for the Male, Female, and Huge body types. That's x3. They also have to work for both standing on the ground and flying, as well as swimming, crouched stances like Ninja Run, etc. That's at least x2 or x3. I'm sure there's at least one other factor I'm forgetting.

So, realistically, it's something like 9x3x3 = 81 individual animations, which may be very similar to each other or to old ones but still have to be tweaked one at a time, for any new powerset.

That's why Proliferations are massively more common and easier than new powersets - because they use existing art assets.

Stretching/shrinking/growing would be even more work, because you don't just have to deform the character model - you have to deform every costume piece that has its own geometry and make sure it looks right. Even just a "make my fist HUGE to hit you" punch would have to account for dozens of different glove shapes.


 

Posted

Hmm, is it perception, or is it reality. It does seem as though there has been a mix of powers coming out recently. Having said that, it seems as though it has been melee heavy. Would like to see a continued mix. I think they have done a good job so far. F2P seems to be "inspiring" them. Having said that, I have a feeling some types of powers we'll never get. Growth, shrinking, stretching, grappling, water, are some that come to mind.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by thgebull0425 View Post
Hmm, is it perception, or is it reality. It does seem as though there has been a mix of powers coming out recently. Having said that, it seems as though it has been melee heavy.
It is definitely melee heavy, no doubt about it. There's a reason for that though. When they create a new melee powerset 4 ATs can use it, almost unchanged. So they get a lot more benefit for the same amount of work. Conversely, things like dominator and blaster secondaries, and mastermind primaries can only be used by a single AT, and are just as much work as a melee set (or a whole crapton more work in the case of mastermind primaries). That's why there are something like 18 melee sets, and only 7 blaster and dominator secondaries.

I would like to see more non-weapon sets as well. It seems like there are some relatively easy concepts that could be explored. Psychic melee, radiation melee, radiation armor, gadget or devices control. All have been mentioned many times before. And all are concepts that are already in the game in one form or another. I'd love to see them explored.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by thgebull0425 View Post
Hmm, is it perception, or is it reality. It does seem as though there has been a mix of powers coming out recently. Having said that, it seems as though it has been melee heavy. Would like to see a continued mix. I think they have done a good job so far. F2P seems to be "inspiring" them. Having said that, I have a feeling some types of powers we'll never get. Growth, shrinking, stretching, grappling, water, are some that come to mind.
Water is something I am still looking for :] water armor, so I can make a fish that has a Trident. So far the best substitute I've seen is Dark, but that is still not water.

Also of course Water Blast and Water Control.


 

Posted

And Water Affinity, Water Assault, Water Summoning and Leviathan Mastery!

Oh yeah, and Carp Mele


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
And Water Affinity, Water Assault, Water Summoning and Leviathan Mastery!

Oh yeah, and Carp Mele
Well perhaps if you broaden it to Fish Melee...

Oh and the boss pet for Water Summoning? Summon Bigger Fish.


 

Posted

What, no love for Blasters? Where's my Water Manipulation?


 

Posted

I said Water Blast! But fine, Water Manip too.

As for the Blast, the nuke will be a Tidal Wave that 'washes away' all the buffs the victims have. Oh, and they lie on the ground sputtering for a while.

Then a fish falls on them.


 

Posted

Out of shrinking, growing and stretching, shrinking's the easiest to do in the way its done in the comics.
Your character model can get smaller, and this ups your stealth and defence.
(I sort of did this - made a SS/WP Brute with three alternate costumes - 4ft, 6ft and 8ft, and set up binds to turn on my Stealth IO equipped sprint power with the 4ft costume. Having a Stealth power that dropped your character scale even further would have been very cool. )
Hitching a ride on a teammates shoulder would be a very cool extra, but require a whole bunch of new tech.

Growth's a problem because we often fight indoors. You're in a Council tunnel, what happens when you turn your Growth toggles on? We'd still have to limit to 8ft pretty much, or have all maps marked with a ceiling height that you grow to.

Stretching's a real nightmare.
If you look at how Reed Richards or Elongated Man use it you have:
- ranged punches. Not too hard, but the graphics might look a bit wonky, especially with costume options other than spandex.
- toggle hold on a target that uses up one limb. The other limbs can still be used to fight, eg wrap left arm round one enemy and punch the other with your right arm 40 ft away. This would never fit into Cox's engine.
- turning into a flat sheet to hold a bunch of enemies. Even harder, and trying to not clip with terrain would make this impossible.

Best we could probably get is a longer ranged melee set with Telescopic Limbs (say 20-30ft), which would be kind of cool.


 

Posted

If we ever get Fire and Ice themed Kheldian sets, I will never complain about anything about this game again and I'll buy every single thing that comes into the paragon market the day it comes out for a year to show my appreciation.


 

Posted

All I want is a new semi-offensive armor set that has a taunt aura on scrappers that can actually be paired with the new weapon sets that we have been getting (namely TW and Staff).

There are only 3 armor sets that have any aggro generating auras on scrappers (Invul, WP, Shield) and of those 3 only 1 has any offensive capabilities (Shield), which cannot be paired with Staff or TW (as well as many other weapon sets).

I would really like to roll a TW or Staff toon as a scrapper however since Shield is the only scrapper secondary I like, I'm basically restricted to Brutes (not necessarily a bad thing, I'd just like a bit of variety).

That or just add taunt components to scrapper dmg auras -.- But we do need another armor set anyways regardless of what it does.


 

Posted

So far there have been four paid-only sets -- five if you count the one we know for sure is coming soon:

  • Beam Rifle (weapon-based, but not melee)
  • Street Justice (melee, but not weapon-based)
  • Titan Weapons (weapon-based and melee)
  • Beast Mastery (neither weapon-based nor melee)
  • Staff Fighting (weapon-based and melee)
I'm not really sure I see a "too many weapons" (3 of 5) or a "too much melee" (also 3 of 5) problem here. Yes, it's more than half in both cases, but just barely. And five sets is a pretty small sample size. If a year from now we have ten or so purchasable sets and still 60% or more are falling into both of those categories, maybe then it will make more sense to cry foul. As it is, I think they're just getting the ball rolling by giving us powersets that, first, they can safely assume will sell well enough to justify the costs in money, time and effort that it takes to create them (more than a few players have been asking for most of these on a near-constant basis for years); second, that they're able to pull off so they work in a way that's going to satisfy the people who are shelling out ten bucks apiece for the sets; and third, that are different enough from existing sets that they're able to justify charging extra for them to players who already have access to dozens of existing options.

There's even less of a problem if you factor in all the purchasable sets that VIPs get for "free," and I personally think it's unfair not to.


FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
So far there have been four paid-only sets -- five if you count the one we know for sure is coming soon:
  • Beam Rifle (weapon-based, but not melee)
  • Street Justice (melee, but not weapon-based)
  • Titan Weapons (weapon-based and melee)
  • Beast Mastery (neither weapon-based nor melee)
  • Staff Fighting (weapon-based and melee)
I'm not really sure I see a "too many weapons" (3 of 5) or a "too much melee" (also 3 of 5) problem here. Yes, it's more than half in both cases, but just barely. And five sets is a pretty small sample size. If a year from now we have ten or so purchasable sets and still 60% or more are falling into both of those categories, maybe then it will make more sense to cry foul. As it is, I think they're just getting the ball rolling by giving us powersets that, first, they can safely assume will sell well enough to justify the costs in money, time and effort that it takes to create them (more than a few players have been asking for most of these on a near-constant basis for years); second, that they're able to pull off so they work in a way that's going to satisfy the people who are shelling out ten bucks apiece for the sets; and third, that are different enough from existing sets that they're able to justify charging extra for them to players who already have access to dozens of existing options.

There's even less of a problem if you factor in all the purchasable sets that VIPs get for "free," and I personally think it's unfair not to.
This last sentence sums it up for me. The fact that we've gotten four free sets in the same timescale balances things out for me.

Powerset output is, so far, the best single thing about Freedom, by a mile. I'm loving the variety and range of new sets which we've had in the last 6 months (9 sets in 6 months. That's insane! In a good way).

I reckon we're due a new Armour set or two (surprised there's been 4 melee sets and no Armour sets to go with them), a new Blast set and a new Assault / Blaster Manipulation weapon set next (a weapon using one, I think developing it as both an Assault & taking powers from it for a Manip set makes sense). I'm hoping for a new Control set as well (hopefully Insect control) at some point too.

And quite likely a new EAT or two as well before the end of the year.

Feed me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
I said Water Blast! But fine, Water Manip too.

As for the Blast, the nuke will be a Tidal Wave that 'washes away' all the buffs the victims have. Oh, and they lie on the ground sputtering for a while.

Then a fish falls on them.
I would pay good money for that power!


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
While this is entirely... speculation... I would definitely like to say that non-weapon sets are on the way.
  • One's probably a proliferation; the artists won't have to do much.
  • One will work great for those who love the outdoors.
  • Spider-Man of all people had one once.
  • They tried this one once before, but it didn't work.
  • I can't think of the last one.
On the other hand, would it kill them to make some Toxic-themed attack sets? )-:
I really would like to see a "radiation armor" tank/brute/scrapper set, actually been hoping for this for several years. They could just use irradiate from the defender/blaster set for the taunt aura and convert some of the powers from Radiation and I think it would be pretty sweet.


Coming back out of the woodwork after a couple years away from the game...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
If we ever get Fire and Ice themed Kheldian sets, I will never complain about anything about this game again and I'll buy every single thing that comes into the paragon market the day it comes out for a year to show my appreciation.
We both know this is not true mate. There is one thing you would still complain about.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

It has been said by some redname or other in the past (sorry, I can't remember who/where) that the game engine can't handle deforming models in any way through powers, so shrinking/growing/stretching will never happen, and shape changing will always have to occur through the Kheldian/Costume Change Emote method of "BRIGHT DISTRACTING THINGS! HAH! Bet you didn't notice that model swap out!"


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaShuk2381 View Post
I really would like to see a "radiation armor" tank/brute/scrapper set, actually been hoping for this for several years. They could just use irradiate from the defender/blaster set for the taunt aura and convert some of the powers from Radiation and I think it would be pretty sweet.
This actually sounds really awesome.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
While this is entirely... speculation... I would definitely like to say that non-weapon sets are on the way.
  • One's probably a proliferation; the artists won't have to do much.
  • One will work great for those who love the outdoors.
  • Spider-Man of all people had one once.
  • They tried this one once before, but it didn't work.
  • I can't think of the last one.
On the other hand, would it kill them to make some Toxic-themed attack sets? )-:
The reason you can't think of the last one? Because it is all in your -mind-! *wink wink, nudge nudge*



 

Posted

Yes, I've always thought Mind Melee would be epic, you could make all sorts of telekinetic weapons for a highly varying playstyle.

I've also always thought that Water Spout from the Mako pool should cause a rain of fish, so make of that what you will.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
On the other hand, would it kill them to make some Toxic-themed attack sets? )-:

I wonder how this would work in mechanical terms. Toxic has no type or positions, if I recall correctly, and is rarely resisted. I was under the impression that was why they limited it so fastidiously to fringe enemy types (I'm looking at you Arachnoids) and AVs.

On the other hand, I would love to see the devs take the melee weapon energy projection attacks we see a lot of from the Knives of Vengeance and do more with it.


 

Posted

Gravity Armor.

But what we really need is new power CONCEPTS not new animations for basically the same things we've been doing for years.