When you think of new ATs, what do you think of?
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2012-03-24 14:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well, if we entirely ignore development time, we can do things like Assault sets, where blast sets are combined with melee sets:
Control + melee
Shields + Buff/Debuff
And that'd be an interesting AT. I'm not sure which set would be the primary.
Edit: I suppose Control + Melee / Shields + Buff/Debuff is kind of in the game already. Hello Fortunatas.
Ninjitsu for stalkers is a very unique combination of powers that I personally can't find replicated in any other power set. With ninjitsu you get a couple toggles to passively handle your defense and then several other powers that you can use proactively/reactively to alter the battlefield. I'd love to see that type of defense set combined with the dominator assault sets.
I'm thinking of a defense set that offers soft control in the tier 4 or 5 power slot, something like a nodamage Footstomp or a PBAOE Lift. The tier 7 or 8 could be a moderate damage melee attack that causes AOE heal around your target. Even a power like Ice Patch would be an awesome addtion to a defense set, especially if it was a location drop like caltrops.
there are two things to thing of for new AT's: function combos (i.e. melee/defense) and inherent (i.e. crits vs fury).
the main one I'd like to see is Pets/Control (controller MM instead of defender MM)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
there are two things to thing of for new AT's: function combos (i.e. melee/defense) and inherent (i.e. crits vs fury).
|
Eep! I forgot all about inherents.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
I think if the devs have their choice there will be no new AT.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
What of an AT that has a whole new area for powersets? Just like Masterminds have the Pet one and Dominators their assault sets. What if a new type of sets came?
Quote:
Maybe a transformation AT, with things like werewolf and mech power sets?
|
Originally Posted by Vexen777
What of an AT that has a whole new area for powersets? Just like Masterminds have the Pet one and Dominators their assault sets. What if a new type of sets came?
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Shifter - Shapeshift, Sizeshift, Stretching, Absorption, Beast Form.
Yeah, it's probably not going to happen.
New archetypes are a tough question. It's much easier to think of new powersets. Scrambling existing powerset categories is a good start, but a lot of the combinations are non-starters. For example, how would an empathy/super reflexes character make it through the tutorial? I guess you can brawl the Shivans to death. I think the pets are designed with the assumption that they will be supported by the buffs/debuffs of the mastermind. That means a thugs/katana character would be severely underpowered. There are also limits to what the devs will allow because of stacked effects. We'll never see a control/control character.
The EATs are interesting. Kheldians can more or less switch from blaster to tank. It might be interesting to have something, and maybe this is what GG had in mind, where you transform between many archetypes. One powerset for such an AT might be Animals. When you're in rhinoceros form, you're basically a tank. Tiger form would be more like a brute. Wolverine or honey badger could be a scrapper form. The black panther form would be like a stalker. Another powerset for the same AT could be Mecha. It would be basically the same, with transforming into the same melee archetypes, except the Mecha forms would simulate different powersets. For example, the Animal/Tiger form is similar to a claws/sr brute, while the Mecha/Killbot form is more like an energy melee/energy armor brute. Another powerset would be Elemental. The Fire form would be like a fire/fire scrapper, while the earth form would be a stone/stone brute, and the water form an ice/ice tank, and the air form would be like some kind of stalker. Different visually of course, but similar powers.
The more I think about it, the more I like it.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Quote:
My eyes filled with stars reading this.
|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
The EATs are interesting. Kheldians can more or less switch from blaster to tank. It might be interesting to have something, and maybe this is what GG had in mind, where you transform between many archetypes. One powerset for such an AT might be Animals. When you're in rhinoceros form, you're basically a tank. Tiger form would be more like a brute. Wolverine or honey badger could be a scrapper form. The black panther form would be like a stalker. Another powerset for the same AT could be Mecha. It would be basically the same, with transforming into the same melee archetypes, except the Mecha forms would simulate different powersets. For example, the Animal/Tiger form is similar to a claws/sr brute, while the Mecha/Killbot form is more like an energy melee/energy armor brute. Another powerset would be Elemental. The Fire form would be like a fire/fire scrapper, while the earth form would be a stone/stone brute, and the water form an ice/ice tank, and the air form would be like some kind of stalker. Different visually of course, but similar powers. The more I think about it, the more I like it. |
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
Closest I can think of are EAT ideas such as:
Vanguard Heavy Assault Armor (Mecha AT):
Special mechanics would be involve the new pop-up power bar in Beta, a set centered around it's shifted form with something of a very stripped down SoA set as a handful of inherent attacks (plus maybe an armor or two) for being outside of the suit, and power selections going towards the mecha form.
Midnighter Archmagus (Magical Sorcerer AT):
I imagine the powersets for this set would feature a branching AT system like SoAs. Also, while tied in with the lore, this would also basically allow the Devs to, for once, go hogwild and make a purely magically themed powerset and animations, which is something some players have hoped for.
Rikti:
Nuff: Said
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
Wrestling ...
Melee with quick / multiple single target holds, immobs, and debuffs as a primary and a scrapper armor set for the secondary.
I'm guessing providing new, reactionary animation for all the NPC's would be a huge undertaking. It'd probably cost a year's worth of points =P.
Quote:
Not really. Defenders are built assuming you get buffs/debuffs to go with the ranged attacks, but that doesn't mean blasters don't work without them.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
I think the pets are designed with the assumption that they will be supported by the buffs/debuffs of the mastermind. That means a thugs/katana character would be severely underpowered.
|
a thugs/katana would have the character doing a lot of damage. Use the thugs in bodyguard mode for your protection
Quote:
I think of the non-combat arcs in DA, and free players opting to be in a 'victim mode,' so they become normal citizens that players can rescue and both parties get an influence or exp boost.|
Originally Posted by MisterMagpie
What sort of ATs and mechanics can you think of that could actually be done with the game engines? (so, say, no stretching)
|
It could even tie into a three-way villain battle, where villains go against heroes in an instanced map, spawns and no-map prevent free players from knowing who they want to head towards, Heroes move around the map to find the player and clear a path for them to escape by, or villains sling them over their shoulder and kidnap them for ransom with an NPC organization.
[image]You CAN'T post images in sigs like they say you can in the forum FAQ.jpg[/image]
Quote:
The same way everyone else does - go AFK and wait for the tutorial to finish itself. It's pretty good at that. Though I suppose you'll still have to purchase that badge in person.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
For example, how would an empathy/super reflexes character make it through the tutorial?
|
---
My vision when it comes to new ATs is largely limited to ways in which I can use powerset categories that currently only exist for ATs I don't enjoy playing. My ideal for this is the Mastermind: I HAAATE playing support sets because those rely on having people to support, but by the nature of the AT, Masterminds are capable of using support sets on their own because they have pets to support. That's the general direction I usually shoot in.
For me, then, the AT I most want to see is one that combines ranged attacks from existing elements with personal protection of some form. I even had a write-up for an AT like this. However, rather than JUST pairing up defences with blast powersets, I wanted to create something more akin to those Circle Behemoths we envy so much for having bits of Fire Blast, Fiery Melee and Fiery Aura. Thus, I wanted to break all of those sets down into their component parts and create two completely different sets to make up this "Ranger" AT's selection.
---
Here's what I have for a Ranger AT:
I'd want to see a primary that's comprised of most of the AT's basic offence, both melee and ranged, but all single-target. I'd also want to put any offensive control the set gets, like Char or Freeze Ray, there as well. I'd want to see a secondary set which was comprised primarily from self-protection powers and AoEs with perhaps some support throw in if there's room left over. A couple of AoEs, say - one melee, one ranged (or a cone), a couple of shields and a type of click status protection that clears status effects but doesn't offer long-term protection. Kind of like an in-set Break Free.
For an inherent, I wanted to use something Castle told me was impossible, but which new mechanics such as Swap Ammo and Momentum, as well as old mechanics used in new ways like Focus criticals should make possible. The gist of the inherent was that this Ranger AT would have a set amount of damage bonus over its base damage, which would fluctuate between enhancing its melee attacks and enhancing its ranged attacks. Melee attacks would charge ranged attacks and ranged attacks would charge melee ones. Additionally, the AT would be rewarded with even more of a damage bonus for fighting at the correct "range." Thus, melee attacks would get the bonus if the AT is fighting in melee and ranged ones will get it instead if the AT is NOT in melee.
The former rule I believe can be accomplished via the combos mechanic by having each ranged attack move the character one "state" down towards melee, while each ranged attack moves the character one "state" up towards ranged, with around 5 to 7 states, where power damage is different depending on the state. I'm not sure how the latter would be implemented, but I envision the system auto-granting the player a number of buffs that affect only ranged attacks, which it will then revoke for every enemy in melee range.
Overall, my vision for this AT is one that fights at all ranges. I don't want just a Scrapper with ranged attacks that he fires from point-blank range anyway. I want an AT that swoops in, scraps a bit, then pulls back, blasts a bit, then swoops back in. I want an AT inherent that encourages the player to swap ranges and worry about his positioning. I want the player to seek out melee for more than just convenience and range for more than just safety. I want an AT which not just works both at range and in melee, but works at both at the same time, with the same build.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
The following would be very much appreciated:
Assault/Armor
Ranged/Armor
Control/Armor
Ranged Henchmen/Armor
Melee Henchmen/Armor
Melee Henchmen/Support
... also missing, but wouldn't really add much (IMO):
Assault/Support
Melee/Support
In a nutshell, the game is missing solid, solo-friendly ranged ATs that aren't limited by a /support secondary (which tends to slow me down outside of a team). Part of this role is filled by EATs and VEATs, but only the latter are actually competitive (again, IMO) with the classical ATs.
Paradoxically enough, a melee-only "Mastermind" AT with melee-oriented attacks and pets sounds very interesting as well (think of a samurai set, with katana-wielding minions fighting side by side with you), either with an armor or a support secondary.
Still, if I could pick only one, I'd go for the Dominator Assault / Scrapper Armor combination, which offers the best of both worlds (it would resemble a human-form Peacebringer, only with much better ranged damage and a working mez protection that doesn't crash half your health and endurance every other minute).
A Praetorian Devouring Earth Epic Archetype. Initially serving the Hamidon, it infiltrates Praetorian society with the cover of being some kind of superhuman with plant powers.
A Leader AT, complement to the Mastermind AT. They'd have modified versions of the MM pets; the pets would do less damage and more support. The Leader Primary would consist of henchmen summoning and basic armor powers, the Leader Secondary would be a melee attack set. The Inherent would be sort of a combination of an inverted MM Supremacy and Tanker Gauntlet; being near your pets boosts your attacks and defenses, while attacking the enemy draws aggro to you and away from the pets. The idea being that you have a pet control character who leads from the front; you attack, and the pets support you.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
The main combination I think of is Melee/Support.
This is in large part due to my First MMO, Dark Age of Camelot, where my mains were a Warden and a Friar, both of which were melee oriented healer/buffers. After DAoC I then played Warhammer Online for awhile where my main was a Warpriest, also a melee healer.
CoH lacks anything that really fits this playstyle. Yes you could just play a defender in melee range, my Time/Fire defender does spend his entire time in point blank range, but it's just not the same thing.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
I think of things like Armor/assault, assault/armor, Armor/ranged, Ranged/Armor, Control/armor and Armor/control.
HAS ANYONE CHECKED OUT KIRSTEN'S CONSOLIDATED AT SUGGESTION THREAD IN THE SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS SECTION?
it's totally worth it.
link here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=278532&page=1
Quote:
That is a good thread.
|
Originally Posted by daveyj3
HAS ANYONE CHECKED OUT KIRSTEN'S CONSOLIDATED AT SUGGESTION THREAD IN THE SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS SECTION?
it's totally worth it. link here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=278532&page=1 |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I tried doing this as a thought experiment and rapidly realized why I wasn't a game developer, because all I could come up with was Melee/Buffer and Ranged/Shields.
What sort of ATs and mechanics can you think of that could actually be done with the game engines? (so, say, no stretching)
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.