What could be done to incentivize the 'grey' alignments?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-16 16:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Gonna have to go with Mazey on this one. Sorry, bub.
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Originally Posted by firespray
Yes, it is.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
The grey alignment powers suck. Period.
It hasn't stopped me on certain characters, but some it's a case of 'Pancake that, thank you kindly...'
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Give them content! That was supposed to be the appeal of the gray alignments in the first place. Let them run contacts on both sides of the fence, and let them reinforce their own alignments as tourists.
I might be weird, but I just go with the alignment that best fits for each character's concept/personality. The A-merits aren't enough incentive to change that. (Except my badger who is actually a villain, but gets around a bit. She spends most of her time as a rogue.)
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
I would like to see gray story arcs in the opposing zones. I would love to take a Vig to the Isles and run Vig missions working against people like Phipps. Some goes for rogues in Paragon. It would be cool to run missions that counter the more popular contacts.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Honestly I don't know how you bluesiders can tolerate it. except for the whole getting access to the midnight squad 20-25 levels earlier thing. sometimes it feels like it's easier to sideswitch full circle just for that.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Since when did Redside have to wait 20-25 more levels for Midnighter access?
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
Honestly I don't know how you bluesiders can tolerate it. except for the whole getting access to the midnight squad 20-25 levels earlier thing. sometimes it feels like it's easier to sideswitch full circle just for that.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Ashley Mcknight has always handed out the Midnighters unlock at level 30. Ashley as a contact unlocks at level 15 for the Origin of Power story arc, perhaps you have those two arcs confused.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Since when did Redside have to wait 20-25 more levels for Midnighter access?
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Since Issue 12?|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Since when did Redside have to wait 20-25 more levels for Midnighter access?
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Blueside entry missions are 10+
Redside entry missions are 30+
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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You can also start task forces / strike forces and trials. So, to me, the ability to jump sides *IS* enough incentive since I do a lot of TFs/SFs and trials.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
If that were true, it might be enough, but it's just not true. A Vigilante can't just jump villain side and do missions. You need a team leader who is villain or rogue taking missions for you to make that possible. All you can do by jumping sides is radio/paper and then acting is a passenger in someone else's missions.
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Just to reiterate the blindingly obvious: whether side-switching is sufficient reward is ENTIRELY subjective opinion.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
On some characters it is nice to be able to join (just about) anything.
On other characters they are just speed bumps to unlocking the red-only PPPs and then getting back to life as usual. (Marketing, if you're reading this, put a PPP unlock, like the cape and aura unlock, on the market and I will buy it).
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So to give incentive to being a Vigilante (Where ALL my played toons sit) you would take away any rewards I do get and replace it with a useless power which if I felt I needed I would never have bothered making the toon in the first place?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Vigilante is more on the side of going too far for the ideals of justice...beyond outright killing NPCs (which can't be done all the time), maybe lean their rewards less on merits and more on personal entitlement of power...so some of their reward choices don't grant merits at all but temp powers like the new trials we got, but instead of gating them by level, gate them by in-game time and tokened to use whenever you want (but lost if you change alignments). Stuff like inherent mez protection, inherent range, inherent HP and regen, temp ranged or melee attacks all reobtainable as rewards over merits and stuff.
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Anyone who plays a 'main' character would not appreciate missing out on reward merits.
I also don't see what is wrong with being a 'grey' alignment. Until I read this thread I didn't think anyone could find a problem with it, playing my toon on whichever mission my friends decide to run is a great bonus and they should not give into the 'have your cake and eat it' brigade with extra incentives.
Or are there some numbers to show that nobody has 'grey' toons?
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Yeah, it is. I have very, very few Heroes or Villains now.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Best answer to the subject line? Alignment merits. Seriously, the ability to hop between Paragon and the Isles is NOT compensation enough for losing those valuable little cookies.
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City of Heroes' biggest strength has always been the 'play with your friends no matter their level'. That got boosted with Super Side-Kicking and then with Going Rogue it became 'Play with your friends no matter what side or what level'. I hop on and find that some SG mates are leveling (or just playing) blue side? I log in with almost any of my characters and can join them. They switch sides after a few arcs? I can stay on the same character and just flow over as long as I'm 20+ and have my grey alignment set.
I also spent several thousand reward merits yesterday on one character. Hero/Villain merits do not give me enough reason to stay true.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Things like alignment merits or alignment powers have -never- been a factor in motivating me to maintain any particular alignment over any other. I have characters who are sprinkled across all four alignments for various reasons that revolve around either character RP backgrounds or need to access red and/or blueside content.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Ok so besides tweaking the alignment powers, what else can be done to make it worthwhile to stick around as a Rogue/Vigilante?
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Basically I need see no need to make any of the current alignments any "better" to play than they are now.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Let my vigilante start his own arcs, and run vigilante tips on the Rogue Isles.
Same for rogues in Paragon.
Being forced to "tag along" with someone to get access anything other than tip missions on the other side is what makes the grey alignments pointless to me.
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That last part is especially annoying. It really does defeat the whole "taking the fight to the enemy" aspect when doing so cuts you off from enforcing your alignment.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Give them content! That was supposed to be the appeal of the gray alignments in the first place. Let them run contacts on both sides of the fence, and let them reinforce their own alignments as tourists.
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As a vigilante or rogue you can: run papers and scanners in zones of the relevant level, start any TF or SF unless I'm forgetting some exception, run both sides' SSAs, run tips and of course badge. Seems like they did their best to make sure there was plenty to do. Letting a faction get the opposite faction's contacts would involve non-trivial programming work. Expect to see that the day they merge ouroboros, i.e. possibly never.
More rewards would be nice, but honestly: my vigilante and rogues have those alignments just because that's what they are, what they should be. I have plenty of other characters to run tips with, and plenty of other powers besides the alignment buff.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Said nothing about 'taking away'. The whole thread is about 'adding to'. I'm simply making a suggestion that coincides with the theme of the alignment and since Rogue is the one concerned about making a profit, adding to their list of possible rewards more merits would fit that theme. Vigilante is more of an idealist rather than someone seeking to fill their bank accounts so adding to their list of possible rewards of more power with a twist or slant to using it might fit that theme instead.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
So to give incentive to being a Vigilante (Where ALL my played toons sit) you would take away any rewards I do get and replace it with a useless power which if I felt I needed I would never have bothered making the toon in the first place?
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As far as useless powers, that depends. I certainly didn't find the temp passives granted by DiB or DFB to be useless and I don't suggest the same rewards but rather something usable at your convenience with many different effects.
But that was just one of the suggestions made. While you may enjoy all your characters being Vigilante for the access, I feel the choice of if you want to be Vig or Rogue should be one of concept not accessibility. If your character is in it for the money or self gain, the jobs in the Rogue isles is where you need to go since I doubt any of the Paragonians are actually paying you for your help. But that wouldn't mean you'd be forced to play redside....that's what the idea of adding content is for, so a Vig or Rogue can be doing missions on either side but fulfilling their purposed alignment in form rather than just in concept.
...but that's just my view. I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to CoX alignment since I know it was added onto the game rather than created with it in mind. AFAIK, being a rogue is 'evil' and being a vigilante is 'good' primarily because rogues are stuck on the RIs and can't really do anything alone in Paragon and reversed for vig. Doesn't matter that those rogues are actually doing some good or those vigs are doing bad with little recompense. So the characters I have that will do good but also are a bit bad must be vig despite the alignment's objective not because it fits, but because of what side of the game is open to them.
That alone is enough of a reward imo.
You can jump sides doing whatever you want as long as "whatever" only includes standing on a streetcorner looking confused.