***SPOILERS*** Why No Rez in SSA#6??


AzureSkyCiel

 

Posted

THE PREFACE:

The ritual for reviving the long-dead Red Widow was the topic of a prior thread on why Ms. Liberty could not use that ritual to revive Statesman. While no hard-and-fast answer was conclusive, the Devs, in the background, seemed to indicate two key factors for the negative:

1) The ritual will not work if the deceased does not wish to return, and
2) Statesman "welcomed his death" as he was "seeking peace after fighting crime for decades" and died with a smile on his face, ergo, he likely does not want to return.

The question about Wakies, the Hospital, Empath and Dark Rezzes and other such things arose, and one of the answers for those was that they only work if you are, in the parlance of "The Princess Bride," "MOSTLY Dead," ie, just on the brink but not actually expired.

ftp://ftp.cityofheroes.com/comics/topcow/comic_20.pdf p.13 paints a different picture.

Positron's armor breaches and the energy breach causes a massive explosion, which totally vaporizes Postitron:

"Synapse is dead. I think some of the others are too. I see no sign of Positron, other than a faint but recognizable energy residue."

Immediately, the Dark Watcher says, "I can bring them back" and before you can say "Padme Hung," everyone is alive and well... except Positron is naked, and Ms. Liberty's costume is still ripped up. Still, I don't know if you can get any "deader" than being vaporized so totally there is only an energy residue left of you.

THE QUESTION:

Since Sister Psyche presumably did not "die happily" like Statesman, and since even being totally vaporized does not pose a problem for a rez, why aren't the Ritual or one or more of the other Rez techniques being employed for Sister Psyche?


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

Her soul is imprisoned within the everlasting torment cauldron in that one room in Oranbega that everyone always forgets to ransack.


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My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3

 

Posted

It's a little hard to avoid the spoiler when you make the title "No Rez For Sister Psyche?". Not everyone has done SSA 6 yet.


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Posted

There's no rez for Sister Psyche because the devs finally decided they no longer hate villains.


 

Posted

It's also not the first time Psyche has died, either. During the Brawler/Protean comic arc, she dies while mindriding Manticore to figure out who attacked him (he goes into cardiac arrest while she's still in his head and they both die).

The doctors try to revive them, no luck - they're both dead, prepare to tag 'n bag, when in floats Numina...

And voila, a few pages later, the dynamic duo are back.

*****

That being said, I wonder if it's more related to the state of one's spirit, rather than one's body... sure, Posi nuked, but his soul was presumably still intact. Same for everyone else that died and was revived.

*****

If that's the case, then the writers should have set up something in WWD6 that her soul is being ripped to shreds, forced from her into the bodies of EVERYONE in Paragon (now THAT would have been an epic level spell), and being impossible to recoalesce, there isn't enough left of Psyche to bring back.

Otherwise, nope, she's now just "an ex psychic."

As much as I loathe "handwaving," I suspect that's what's going on here. Unless we find out in WWD7 that Wade deliberately set up some sort of spell to prevent her being brought back (or something to that effect), then it's just a matter of "she's dead and can't be brought back because we say so, so there."

*grimaces*

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGeek View Post
It's a little hard to avoid the spoiler when you make the title "No Rez For Sister Psyche?". Not everyone has done SSA 6 yet.
That's what I was thinking


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Posted

Have you seen the ingredients required for the Valentine's Day Resurrection spell? You got them easy the first time, sure, but good luck finding duplicates of those items!

Also, Sister Psyche may have "mind ridden" her psyche into Manticore and is not actually dead yet. Part Seven of the "Who Will Die" arc may shed some light. Or not.


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Posted

SPOILERS
Bruce Leeroy beats the shogun of Harlem.
It's People! It's People!
She smothered her own baby.
They blow up the death star. Twice.
She leaves with Laslo.
Bruce Willis is dead.
He threw the map into the lake.
They can't stop the signal.
There's a huge nuclear war and the hot dog stand he builds is useless.
His glasses break and he can't read the books.
The universe dies a heat-death.


you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
THE QUESTION:

Since Sister Psyche presumably did not "die happily" like Statesman, and since even being totally vaporized does not pose a problem for a rez, why aren't the Ritual or one or more of the other Rez techniques being employed for Sister Psyche?
The question is a good one, though I would say that criticism of the Devs concerning this specific issue might best be with withheld since they may already have the answers in Chapter 7. After all they have not said she is perma-dead, which was the complaint with Statesman's death.

Some possibilities are...

This was all a trap for Wade to let Psyche mind ride him.
Her spirit/personality was destroyed in the ritual.
They use a ritual and do bring her back.
They use any of a dozen other comic book plots.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
The question about Wakies, the Hospital, Empath and Dark Rezzes and other such things arose, and one of the answers for those was that they only work if you are, in the parlance of "The Princess Bride," "MOSTLY Dead," ie, just on the brink but not actually expired.

ftp://ftp.cityofheroes.com/comics/topcow/comic_20.pdf p.13 paints a different picture.
As for why techniques characters have to bring her back are not working the answer is simple. Throughout the history of CoH our resurection powers can and do fail, so this is just another instance where they do fail and there is nothing inconsistent in such.

I have tried to raise player characters who have not been reviveable. Out of character I know some of the reasons were they either decided to quit playing for the night, decided to quit playing that lame build and reroll, simply disconnected and were unable to resolve the tech problem, or were Roleplaying their characters death.

Likewise there are dead NPC's galore who can't be raised.

At this point we need to wait to find out the answer, but yes the question should be answered in the next story since it is obviously a question our characters would ask.


 

Posted

**ack**

Tremendous brain cramp on that title. My bad. Have asked a Mod to rename it.


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

Posted

Because we can't. That's it, and that's probably all it's ever going to be. The writers wanted this to happen, and didn't put as much thought into execution as they should have. I really wonder who in the world thought it was a good idea to have a resurrection ritual in a mission that pops up right after these big deaths, well before Psyche's. Maybe we will be able to bring Psyche back later, but they replaced her with Penny so fast it made my head spin, so I have my doubts that there is any plan to bring her back anytime soon.

Heroes got the shaft in this arc, and I don't see anything really way for them to bring it around for heroes in any meaningful way, outside of just retconning the whole thing, which I doubt is an option since this is going to be the first arc that affects the game world and takes NPC's off the map.

Heroes may have to take the advice that Villains got in similar issues with story, get over it and move on. It sucks, but I don't think there's much that can be done at this point.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Immediately, the Dark Watcher says, "I can bring them back" and before you can say "Padme Hung," everyone is alive and well... except Positron is naked, and Ms. Liberty's costume is still ripped up. Still, I don't know if you can get any "deader" than being vaporized so totally there is only an energy residue left of you.
I always knew that guy was up to no good. He's obviously using macro hax to cast his rez on untargetable teammates who self destructed.

And yeah, it's "because the writers' whims have decreed it."


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
It's also not the first time Psyche has died, either. During the Brawler/Protean comic arc, she dies while mindriding Manticore to figure out who attacked him (he goes into cardiac arrest while she's still in his head and they both die).

The doctors try to revive them, no luck - they're both dead, prepare to tag 'n bag, when in floats Numina...

And voila, a few pages later, the dynamic duo are back.

*****

That being said, I wonder if it's more related to the state of one's spirit, rather than one's body... sure, Posi nuked, but his soul was presumably still intact. Same for everyone else that died and was revived.

*****

If that's the case, then the writers should have set up something in WWD6 that her soul is being ripped to shreds, forced from her into the bodies of EVERYONE in Paragon (now THAT would have been an epic level spell), and being impossible to recoalesce, there isn't enough left of Psyche to bring back.

Otherwise, nope, she's now just "an ex psychic."

As much as I loathe "handwaving," I suspect that's what's going on here. Unless we find out in WWD7 that Wade deliberately set up some sort of spell to prevent her being brought back (or something to that effect), then it's just a matter of "she's dead and can't be brought back because we say so, so there."

*grimaces*

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Sounds like Numina used to be rather vigilant at rezzing her teammates before she and Positron started their.... umm... extracurricular activities.

Coincidence?


 

Posted

Could it also have something to do with the obilisk that Wade is using? Perhaps it traps more than just their superpowers.

Yeah, more likely though it's "they just can't".


Global name: @k26dp

 

Posted

I just figured they were going to write it as Sister Psyche mind-riding Penny. That's why she gets into the Freedom Phalanx.

Then again, I could be wrong.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RosaQuartz View Post
Could it also have something to do with the obilisk that Wade is using? Perhaps it traps more than just their superpowers.

Yeah, more likely though it's "they just can't".
Keep in mind that in one of the episodes, the "skull of Tommy Arcanus" was taken. It was stated there that the Obelisk wouldn't absorb Numina's powers since they're inherited. This was implied to be a disappointing dead-end, but maybe Mr. Wade just wasn't forthcoming to Malaise in what he REALLY wanted to learn from that encounter...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Sounds like Numina used to be rather vigilant at rezzing her teammates before she and Positron started their.... umm... extracurricular activities.

Coincidence?
About a half dozen seriously crass comments zoomed through my mind, but thankfully the filter between my brain and my fingers is stopping them from making their way into this thread.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite


Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum View Post
Sounds like Numina used to be rather vigilant at rezzing her teammates before she and Positron started their.... umm... extracurricular activities.

Coincidence?
That's it! It explains everything! This is all Positron's evil plan! He's keeping the main healer of the group, let's say, occupied. I bet he even told Manticore that it was a good idea to just handle things by himself. Probably told Statesman that he would totally let Numina know where to go to counter Wade's spell, or convinced States that he needed to bring Wade to justice instead of just rushing in and snapping his neck like a twig. It all makes sense now. We'll slowly get clues to this through the next SSA's.


 

Posted

The Dev's have bluntly stated that Statesman is going to stay dead, no rezzing in his future.

The Dev's have remained silent about Sister's true fate.

Things that make you go hmmm....


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Posted

Sister Psyche does not wish to return and get shot by Manticore again?


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Sister Psyche does not wish to return and get shot by Manticore again?
I believe this over any other reason out there.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
I thought the dingo ate her baby...
Now that you mention this, the court actually found that this might well be the case. However, the judge has yet to rule on it.


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Posted

She dc-ed during the cutscene and hasn't been able to log back in to accept the rez.


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