Dual Pistols buff rumors true?

Uh oh, found a DP thread where I haven't plugged my standard DP suggestion!

Let us use Two Ammo types, and make the damage 50% lethal, 25% ammo type 1, 25% ammo type 2. Have huge diminishing returns for using the same ammo on both pistols.

If DP with incendiary is Middle of the pack damage (as has been shown in many DPs threads) adding the ability to sacrifice damage for large levels of debuff (still not the level of say Sonic or dark with lesser damage) or sacrifice secondary effects for above average damage (still not close to fire) would make for a powerful set, without doing other set's niches better.

I'm going to roll a Dual Pistols blaster, get him to 10, and give him both Maelstrom Pistol recipes for his costume.

Once given, I'm going to delete him to troll the market.

It'll probably prove more entertaining than PLAYING the set (and I got a Grav/Psi dom to 50 BEFORE any buffs, so I know something about squeezing enjoyment out of underpowered sets).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

Preface: I haven't tested Staff fighting much except on a Stalker up to around lvl 11. I have been playing my DP/Fire lately so have thought about DP lately.

Looking at the unique mechanic itself, is Swap Ammo really even fair? What it loses (some sort of straight dmg buff or utility to aid survival) for the things it gains (basically just flexibility) doesn't seem even when you compare it to the set that borrows its mechanic (Staff Fighting). And I don't think you could make the argument that it's because Staff is a pay set...I believe DP is also a pay set...

Anyway, from my working knowledge of Staff, the set gets 3 toggle stances that not only adds self buffs that stack 3 times and scale higher with each stack, but they also add extra effects and buffs to two of the set's powers.

Conversely, Swap ammo *exchanges* lethal damage for element/toxic damage as well as secondary effects...To state the obvious, the problem is that Swap Ammo adds nothing. If I want the KD/back to help save my rear, I have to use standard ammo. If I want extra DoT, I have to use incendiary. If I want extra mitigative secondary effects, I have to use toxic/cryo rounds. But all of them are exclusive. I can't have the KD + mitigative effects or extra DoT + KD, I have to choose and switch.

So I propose changes to DP through Swap ammo (not saying this is the only additions that should be made to the set, such as cast times or recharge times). A few ideas:

1. Fresh Ammo: Because reloading during a fight is just bad-A. Fresh Ammo is a momentary buff that adds to the secondary damage and effects of the selected ammo and is granted upon activating an ammo toggle. The buff could last anywhere from 10-15 sec then replaces itself with a 'Half Empty Clip' power that basically blocks getting the Fresh Ammo power for the specific ammo type. Half Empty Clip should last 10-15 sec.

-Standard Ammo counts as an ammo type so removing any toggles gives a Fresh Standard Ammo buff for extra lethal damage and greater chance of KD.
-Incendiary Ammo would have greater chance of DoT and for more tics.
-Cryo and Toxic rounds do a bit extra type damage + higher debuff effects.
-Intended design goal is to reward swapping and using the different ammo types. One can swap between two ammo types occasionally or run the gamut of types, both tactics equally viable. This would allow one to capitalize on the secondary effects of the different ammos or by occasionally turning off and turning back on (reloading), you can get the ammo's effects improved.

-Executioner's Shot: Standard ammo will do a bit more lethal damage and debuff the target's max HP by %. Cryo rounds will debuff the target's resistance to holds and cast a mag 2 hold on the target. Incendiary rounds will do more DoT and cause mag 2 Terrorize on the foe. Toxic rounds will reduce target's max HP and regen.

-Piercing Shot: Standard ammo will reduce resists and defense more as well as cause shrapnel damage (a targeted AoE that hits 3 foes for extra lethal damage). Cryo, Toxic and Incendiary rounds will do more of their typed damage + reduce resists and defense like standard ammo does without building any combos.

-Hail of Bullets: Not sure what each ammo type should do...but it should be amazing.

-I feel that this should be justified in that, Staff gets extra effects on targets with 3 stacks of focus. That DP gets an all-the-time partial damage type swap is equivalent to Staff getting some-of-the-time self buff *extras*.

-This design direction encourages picking an ammo type and staying with it, building upon each attack to improve the ammo type chosen.

-stacking any 3 incendiary round attacks opens up the target for 'Impairment'. Any toxic round attack will have a larger damage debuff + an additional non-stacking resistance debuff.

-stacking any 3 cryo rounds opens up the target for 'Temperature Shift'. Any incendiary rounds will cause extra lethal and fire damage to the target. Can also take advantage of cryo stacking with standard rounds, gaining an extra 'Shattered' smashing damage proc.

-stacking any 3 chemical rounds opens the target up for 'Caustic Gas'. By using cryo rounds the target gains a temp power which works like the Rikti monkeys death cloud. Upon death, the foe will create a cloud of gas that causes sleep + slow movement. You can also take advantage of chem rounds with standard rounds which cause additional bleed (lethal) DoT.

-The design goal is to gain advantages to swapping ammo momentarily, kind of like a short term dmg buff like Aim. Multiple DP characters would improve other DP users, creating synergies. Incendiary + Toxic = debuff, Cryo +Incendiary/Standard = Damage, Toxic + Cryo = Control and Toxic + Standard = damage.

-Cryo Ammo: each cryo ammo attack stacks, making all your -rech, -movement and controls better. Maybe with a certain number of stacks, your attacks may start creating short duration ice slicks to slip up the foe as well.
-Incendiary Ammo: each fire ammo attack stacks, making your DoT more reliable. Maybe with a certain number of stacks, your attacks may start creating short duration burn patches that will cause the foe more damage.
-Chem Ammo: each chem shot stacks, making your -dmg debuffs more potent. Maybe with a certain number of stacks, toxic clouds that debuff the foe more may start to form.
-Standard Ammo: each standard bullet stacks into 'bullet time', adding to your personal defense for each shot.
-The design goal of this is one that encourages specialization in ammo choice.

Thread Necro ... but certainly appropriate in this case.



Talked to Arbiter Hawk this weekend at the Summit about Dual Pistols. I brought up the "unhappiness" with the balance of Swap Ammo as presently configured, and how the exotic ammo types weren't "different enough" to merit their effects (aside from Incendiary Ammo, because damage is always better than everything). He conceded that since Swap Ammo is occupying the slot normally taken by Aim or a similar booster power that Swap Ammo is somewhat inadequate and underpowered, and that it would be worthwhile to re-examine the balance of the effects that Swap Ammo brings to the table. I specifically mentioned the anemic differences of the exotic ammo types in their effects and got a thoughtful musing look in response. No promises of action (let alone any time soon!), but I got the sense that he substantially agreed with the perspective that Swap Ammo wasn't where it needed to be.

One thing which Arbiter Hawk volunteered (meaning, I didn't ask him for this and he brought it up himself) is that he is of the opinion that the animations for several of the Dual Pistols attacks are simply too long and could use shortening on their animation times. Specifically, he cited Executioner's Shot at 2.4 seconds, and said he felt like 2.1 seconds would be more where he'd want the animation time on that power to be, as an example. So not radical reductions in animation times, but things like -15% or so seemed to be around the range he was comfortable with so as to speed up the animations of some of the attacks (ie. not all of them!). Executioner's Shot was specifically mentioned by name, but he didn't reel off a list of any others.

Again ... NO PROMISES of action in this area anytime Soon™ ... so you can hold your fire on that score. This was more a matter of sounding him out to find out what Arbiter Hawk thinks rather than trying to figure out (let alone demand) what he's going to DO. The major point being that even if he isn't exactly in *agreement* with what the players believe concerning Dual Pistols, his is substantially in alignment with player thinking as far as this powerset is concerned.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Dual Pistols definitely draws it's animations out far, far too long. Some attacks hit that 'just right' area, but...

...

/me looks over the list.

... Honestly? Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, Executioner's Shot, and Piercing Rounds could all stand to be sped up a bit. There's just too much time flailing around like an idiot. If they all get just a bit of a speed increase, it'd not only perform better, but feel more like you're a very agile gun-kata user (for those who play it like that).

I guess we can only hope for the future, then. Although Swap Ammo is the biggest flaw of the set.

Feel free to send him a few of my ideas or one of your own to modify Swap ammo. Curious to know where he'd be willing to take the set's 'defining feature' considering what Staff has (although it doesn't have quite as much as I'd have hoped).

I would like to see them add another option to swap ammo... add a "hollow-point" round which converts the damage from lethal to smashing, leaving KB in place...

Give us the Beta Bug back. This will solve EVERYTHINGGGGGG!

Well...ok...maybe not...but that was still a pretty kickarse bug.


For those that might not know/remember...

Back in beta (closed beta as i recall), the Swap Ammo function worked off a single button, and instead of being able to pick and choose which ammo you want like you can now, instead you cycled through the different ammos. I think the order was something like Standard, Incindiary, Cryo, Chem...or....something. ANYWAY...You could actually trick the game by using a combination of the Swap ammo and the Walk power to load up all three "exotic" ammo types (Incend., Cryo, and Chem) at the same time. The result was you'd get the damage from the lethal plus the fire damage (just the up front portion tho...no dot), cold damage, and toxic damage. Though i think, iirc, one of the powers (HoB, maybe) actually ended up getting a little gypped on overal damage potential. Still...taking out LT's in the same number of shots it would normally take a minion (2-3)...oof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe ::looks at RaikenX's signature:: Something funny.