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Posts
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Emp is a pretty busy secondary. Having played a mind/emp to 50, I'd rather pair it with a more passive primary such as ice. And it is indeed fairly useless when solo.
Maybe storm? It has 02 boost, and you can negate all the knockback with living shadows. While you can't make it a dark color scheme, you might be able to make it look ectoplasmy. -
Thank you for the suggestions.
Maxing out chronoshift for healing would give ~1.6x the healing temporal mending up front. It's not actually as great of an emergency heal as it first seems because about 60% of it is spread out over 30s, while the HoT on temporal mending ticks much faster. I actually care more about the 30s of +recovery. As far as I can see, adding more recharge would greatly increase the cost of the build without actually adding much performance other than being able to save chronoshift.
I chose CJ over maneuvers simply because it costs next to nothing to run. I think I care about that more than the extra defense since it's pretty easy to bottom out my end bar with this build if I don't pay attention.
Building up aoe defense is a good idea, but it seems like to do that I'd have to greatly increase the cost of my build (purple/pvp sets) to avoid sacrificing recharge?
While controller dark consumption has an 8ft radius, soul drain is actually 15ft (which is larger than what scrappers get afaik). It'd have about 50% uptime. Like temporal selection it's not great, but I don't have a lot of options unless I go with a different app. Maybe I should go with a different app though. -
I'm not fond of putting procs in fearsome stare because it lets enemies retaliate when you use it as an opener. I like it in distortion field, which is like having it in shadow field but with a much faster recharge.
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I have some -kb in clarion, but more is a good idea.
What would you suggest putting in slowed response/chrono shift?
I'm using magic carpet/ninja run for transportation, which I find to be sufficient. Temporal selection isn't that great and I'd have no objection to dropping it, but I don't really see anything else I'd fit in instead unless I went mu/lev and grabbed surge/hibernate (or when sorcery comes out and I can get a st blast outside of my ppp).
edit: maybe I'll drop it for soul drain. -
I haven't gotten any responses in the build forum so I'm trying here.
I've been working on my ill/time build, and I'm not really sure what to do next. I've basically got soft capped ranged defense (clarion radial boosted farsight+gi gives another ~9%), everything is perma, and my end use/recovery seems good (SI is for out of combat use). I've avoided most purple sets because they're just not really needed. But I've got four slots left and I'm not really seeing anything particularly beneficial to do with them. So, any suggestions/improvements? I know local_man would say, "get a single target blast" :P, but I'd rather have a ppp pet on this char since the build is so clicky (I have vet attacks/dark oblit for filler anyway). I'm not tied to soul mastery though.
If I can't find anything better to do my fallback would be 5 doctored wounds in temporal mending, a proc in time's juncture (I use it pretty sparingly though), and another proc in dark oblit.
The character's story is that they've been possessed by their own ghost from the future, so it's thematically designed but has room to justify pretty much anything.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(3), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Apoc-Dam%(5), GJ-Dam%(5)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Blind -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Perox(7), HO:Perox(7), G'Wdw-EndRdx/Hold(9), G'Wdw-Dam%(9), NrncSD-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(11), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(13), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(13), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(15), CoPers-Conf%(15)
Level 6: Temporal Mending -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Time's Juncture -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(21), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(23), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- Heal-I(A)
Level 12: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Flash -- SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SWotController-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(25), SWotController-EndRdx/Rchg(25), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(27), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- Lock-%Hold(A), NrncSD-Dam%(29), G'Wdw-Dam%(29), ImpSwft-Dam%(31), UbrkCons-Dam%(31), SWotController-Rchg/Dmg%(31)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(34), S'bndAl-Build%(34)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(36), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), EoCur-EndRdx/Hold(36)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 24: Group Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Dam%(A)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(37), HO:Cyto(37), HO:Cyto(39)
Level 30: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExStrk-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(40), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(43), HO:Ribo(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Summon Seer -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(50), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(19)
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 50: Cognitive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
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Single target: at first mind is one of the better single target damage sets due to having an extra single target attack. This advantage diminishes as you level though.
Aoe: no. mind has trouble setting up aoe containment, which makes it a poor damage dealer.
Time can put out some damage by putting procs in distortion field, but that's about it.
If you want to deal damage consider plant, fire, illusion (through pets), or gravity (single target) for your primary (dark is also above average). -
No, nemesis don't have -rech.
Domination does 3 things
1) refills your end bar when activated
2) gives you kb/status protection
3) ~doubles the duration of most sleep/hold/stun/confuse/immob/fear powers, and doubles their magnitude for the duration for ~half that time.
Unfortunately it doesn't work with most pseudopet/toggle powers (afaik shadow field is the only exception to that), and so it won't enhance your sleep patch or any secondary targets hit by synaptic overload. For electric and ice dominators it's very optional, but for everyone else it's very nice. -
edit: I haven't gotten any replies so I'm trying to controller forum.
So I've been working on my ill/time build, and I'm not really sure what to do next. I've basically got soft capped ranged defense (clarion radial boosted farsight+gi gives another ~9%), PA (and everything else) is perma, I've procced what's proccable/worth proccing, and my end use/recovery seems good (SI is for out of combat use). But I've got four slots left and I'm not really seeing anything particularly good to do with them. So, any suggestions (or other improvements)? I know local_man would/will say, "switch to an app and get a single target blast" :P, but I kind of want a ppp pet on this char.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Spectral Wounds -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(3), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Apoc-Dam%(5), GJ-Dam%(5)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Blind -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Perox(7), HO:Perox(7), G'Wdw-EndRdx/Hold(9), G'Wdw-Dam%(9), NrncSD-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(11), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(13), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(13), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(15), CoPers-Conf%(15)
Level 6: Temporal Mending -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Time's Juncture -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(21), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(23), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- Heal-I(A)
Level 12: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Flash -- SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SWotController-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(25), SWotController-EndRdx/Rchg(25), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(27), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- Lock-%Hold(A), NrncSD-Dam%(29), G'Wdw-Dam%(29), ImpSwft-Dam%(31), UbrkCons-Dam%(31), SWotController-Rchg/Dmg%(31)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(34), S'bndAl-Build%(34)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(36), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), EoCur-EndRdx/Hold(36)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 24: Group Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Dam%(A)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(37), HO:Cyto(37), HO:Cyto(39)
Level 30: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExStrk-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(40), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(43), HO:Ribo(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Summon Seer -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(50), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), EndMod-I(19)
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 50: Cognitive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
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Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1535;713;1426;HEX;| |78DA6594494F136118C7DFE90C96169042C1B2941D5A64296DD49B4222A8C14002A| |95B8C5A27658049864ED32591A31FC044F1E04D564131F1E202E1E6373046A347BF| |8082CBC9CBF830CFBF744C2799FCDE79DE67FDCF3B33796FACF2D5A5FB2342F28D1| |A6A369B183553B98C69185AC61D4FEA5A2AA9C9822E37DD5DC5BD825B64DC30F259| |DD4C150C1D0E9FF3F9D9D9C8157D414B4CAA293D9D37D41C790AEF944981F1B4A6C| |D54D8CB8B863E379FABB4D7139A9AD65373D58587192D939DD7D3CD17D27A323266| |2EE8293567661271336F50D66C4ECB2C36506B83742F4B0297A588B3044516AE02A| |32E21628A5062E0806CF369DD518C104DC2B6AD501E4E659549883F76EE7F96EB92| |ED5BBEC0F4AAC41645AC1264C4CAB7B896F736B3F20E98601EBF0BAACC65EAA58C6| |35D6557396FED34B32ECE5C211FB7DD9C25BBDF715CDD0EF3C42EB8C75C255F0F66| |F374F36CEB145B015B453DE75C235441B7AA4DD6A5610B7CCE6C7A016E33D728773| |5E6ACFECBF582D020084D5A37F9B9759CF75B5F72EC3332D720B6669FF7DA7F82BF| |C0DFCC8E117094B94E75FDE8D5FFC965E7EFF8C2ECFA0C7E0593DC47279DDD7AD64| |CAAEF671DBAC10DB207784F04A0C761DB8DD0A8F11BDB36A86E33746F865FF7193E| |0B0586400FD56B41CE16F86E11DAD077DB01CF12C2CC21CC1CC6CCE145A29F74A29| |A9D380F9DEFD916FEC83E273F3037C9A7876BB97A1E60EF3188191F92ECBDF0E90D| |F03BE91BE65E0B7C443EFDE8AFFF35C70DBC01DF823BCCC15DE612C544F01E23986| |908330D61A621CC14C37B8EFDC119258DA2D0280A8D828AE35BB4E83A6C149FA265| |F595EC464B2CB112CBA912CBE912CB84D332C8B34D2947FF002141478FEFE8DBB6B| |E7B698DFEE52EDEDF2FDA24F91ACFE4BB4C0C2BE287D3BF97FD0F8A3697FC8475F1| |2D316BDBD9E7A6F7301BD7BCE1585F77ACA71DEBE10085A1C7463A1B31D8954071B| |DED2FFAFC0379AEFB27| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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I think they're both way overkill on defense and recharge, and so much more expensive than they need to be. As an elec/dark you have tons of mitigation before IOs: sleep, confuse, hold, end drain, defense, -to hit, -damage, healing, regen, knockdown, stun, and pets. It only takes a moderate amount of recharge to get most of these things up all the time, and then a couple IO sets will get most enemies chance to hit down to 5%.
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Quote:Turn on prompt team teleport. Wait for your current port to finish before clicking accept.Which bring me to the second most annoying bug in the game (the first is Mastermind henchmen who just don't do anything). When you teleporting to a mission while on a team and some recall friends you.
You can be across the zone hitting your bind to get to the mission, then get recall friend'ed to the mission door, and then you will port all the way back to where you last clicked your bind. You know since you were porting there while traveling on the other side of the zone. You need to hit the ground and ask for the recall again. If it was ATT well you might as well continue traveling. -
Thematically I love it, but mechanically it seems too similar to what we already have. What if each of their attacks had a chance to proc various secondary effects (kd, bleed, slow, -res, -damage, etc) instead of having one effect all the time? It would go along with vengeance and confuse nicely imo. You could also give them a drink grog power with the t9 upgrade that would give them a random buff when used.
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Storm you are... NOT the father!
*dancing ensues* -
As local man pointed out, heart of darkness and thunderclap are a perfect match for each other. It should be a pretty good combo.
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Time is kind of like a middle ground between /rad and /dark. It's pretty focused on defense/control, but it actually does a lot of the same things as rad. On my dark/time it felt kind of like overkill, while on my ill/time it rounds out the build by making up for illusion's lack of hard control (it's turning into one of my favorite characters, and I haven't even put filled distortion field with procs yet).
For having fun with your kids I'd probably recommend /kin because the extra endurance+recharge would let them have more fun with their characters (they can use their favorite powers more often), and everyone loves fulcrum shift. -
It should be a very safe combo and very helpful on teams, but be prepared for slow soloing due to the low damage output.
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Open up mids, see what damage procs your set's aoe immob takes, get them, slot them.
That's about it. Guide complete. -
You might want to drop a slot of of hasten (it'd still be perma) and put a lockdown proc in shadowfield. Increasing the hold duration will also make a significant difference, although you might not need it.
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Pretty much anything works with illusion. Poison is kind of a sub-par set though.
Dark, storm, and cold (although cold has shields) are going to get you the most -res as you can double stack their -res debuffs with enough recharge.
Storm is great for soloing and works well in groups if you're careful about how you use your powers, but it is a chaotic playstyle and takes some practice to make the most out of it. Dark is a very defensive set, but pretty easy to use and very effective. Cold has shields, but is also a strong debuffing set against hard targets. Rad has less -res than the others, but it's an excellent option and accelerate metabolism helps you get PA out more often. -
I started one and have gotten it to 18 so far. I've only been using freezing rain+static field for 2 levels, but it's actually working fairly well. I throw down freezing rain and get my mobs to run into it, and then place static field either between myself and the freezing rain or behind it. If I place it between enemies tend to run into it themselves, although this can take a while because rain tends to scatter them. If I put the sleep behind the rain I can immobilize the mobs and push them (using gust+nemesis staff atm, but hurricane will make it easier) into the sleep patch. Since the debuffs from freezing rain linger for 30s I don't really lose anything by pushing them out of it. Once enemies are drained of endurance I find that there's no need to keep them asleep, so I can just stack everything in one place and use the patch just for the little bit of extra endurance drain/recovery.
Overall I'm liking the set a lot more as a controller than I did as a dominator, particularly since overpower still applies to static field (and synaptic overload) even though domination doesn't.
edit: hit 22, having a lot of fun.
Solo I've been immobilizing enemies and then pushing them into corners, using hurricane+FR to keep them debuffed while conductive aura works. Once they're drained of endurance I can switch off hurricane and finish them off safely. If there isn't a convenient corner I'll use static field+immob, drain them, then drop freezing rain and focus on damage.
In teams I've been using static field for alphas, to stop stragglers, or protect squishies while freezing rain+jolting chains has been my main control combo for the center of the fight. I spent a while teamed with an earth/thermal controller who didn't spam stone cages, which was about as synergistic a teammate as I could ever hope for. Then I teamed with a plant controller who spammed his/her immob right at the beginning of fights, so I concentrated on debuffing, herding, and controlling stragglers. Even though almost all of my area control powers were negated I still felt like I was being effective and helpful, which kept me happy.
Overall I think it's a decent combo, but it almost feels closer to playing a dominator-defender hybrid than a controller. I'd reccomend it to people looking for a fun change of pace instead of something more traditional. -
Imo neither are good choices, but wormhole would be the better of the two.
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I'm thinking about it from the mindset that my main disappointments with the set come about when allies use -kb and rain powers; the rest of the time electric stands very well on its own. With /storm I could at least take advantage of the things that bug me to patch up some of the weaknesses of electric rather than focusing on its strengths.
I don't see hurricane+conductive as much of a problem if you don't run hurricane constantly. Sleep->immob->round them up with hurricane->turn off hurricane and finish draining them while the -to hit lingers for 10s to protect you if they wake up. Once your mobs are drained of endurance, you don't need the -to hit anymore. And if the fights don't last long enough to completely drain them then you might as well just leave hurricane on.
I never liked tornado against groups because it changes targets too frequently, so I tend to use it more against single targets (you have -kb in the st immob). If my teammates are spamming -kb and making jolting chains (and the kd in freezing rain) useless at least it gives me an excuse to spam tornado.
It's true that thunderclap doesn't stack with anything and it's not that great on its own, but it's also kind of unnecessary here. I'd just skip it.
Freezing rain+static field is the main conflict, but the main problem I'm having with the set is that teammates often make static field useless anyway. Still, it is my main reason to hesitate on making the character.
I'm curious though: what was your thinking behind mind/storm? It seems like such an odd combination. -
Good points, for canceling out alphas I do find it to be about the best set I've played (the chain powers are great for getting groups that are oddly distributed).
Hmm... maybe I'll try rolling up as an electric/storm and see if I like it more that way. It has the same synergy as grav/storm (no -kb in the aoe immob is a plus for freezing rain and lightning storm), plus elec should help a little with storm's massive energy consumption. My biggest concern though is that freezing rain doesn't play nice with static field. -
The radial path for the highest proc rate as you progress. Imo the debuff is fairly trivial in comparison to the damage added.
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Quote:That's what water spout does though, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it would be in actual practice. Knockback suppression could be a possible solution as well.I've always wished that instead of blocking KB effects, the Immobilizes instead capped their magnitude at 0.67, but I doubt that will ever happen. I think it would be viewed as overpowering for high-frequency knockbacks.
Immob+Tornado, for example, would become near-hold-level CC.