Domination used to give a damage boost as well but the devs dropped that and gave every power more base damage instead so, no, perma-dom is not a must have anymore.
No, nemesis don't have -rech.
Domination does 3 things
1) refills your end bar when activated
2) gives you kb/status protection
3) ~doubles the duration of most sleep/hold/stun/confuse/immob/fear powers, and doubles their magnitude for the duration for ~half that time.
Unfortunately it doesn't work with most pseudopet/toggle powers (afaik shadow field is the only exception to that), and so it won't enhance your sleep patch or any secondary targets hit by synaptic overload. For electric and ice dominators it's very optional, but for everyone else it's very nice.
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Perma-Dom basically means you can't be mezzed at all, it means you get a fresh endurance bar regularly and it means you can mez bosses with one application. These are basically the three main weaknesses of Dominators - powers can be expensive, you're completely helpless if you get mezzed and bosses take multiple applications of mez.
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Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis
I really don't see anything special about it.
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Same issues that a blaster has except the perma-dom has all the tools required to deal with it. If you take a comparable blaster you "will" definitely notice the difference.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
Perma-Dom basically means you can't be mezzed at all, it means you get a fresh endurance bar regularly and it means you can mez bosses with one application. These are basically the three main weaknesses of Dominators - powers can be expensive, you're completely helpless if you get mezzed and bosses take multiple applications of mez.
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To the OP. Were you Exemplared down on the league team that you were on? If so that could have cost you enough global recharge to drop out of perma.
Also I usually put Domination on Auto and when I hear it pop I check to see if hasten needs refreshed.
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Not trying to sound like an ****** elitist, but this post is a classic example of why experience > 4 billion builds. All of the questions asked would be answered by actually playing the game a bit to level up.
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One word: Lag|
Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis
I was at a nem invasion, and after a time, the dom bar filled, and I popped it - and then, it dropped - but dom wasn't ready yet. My global recharge is over 150%, and my understanding is 123% is perma-dom
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Go onto a mission map and test it.
Open world zone events tend to cause lag and/or disconnect between the server (even if you don't fully experience it).
Maybe I'm not using the correct technical reason for why it happens, but for argument's sake, try out the Perma-Dom on an instanced mission map and see how that goes. If it works fine, then you were having some type of lag during the zone event. If you still have the issue where it's not perma, then that's something that needs to be explored further.
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I can't argue with the premise that an experienced player will make almost any build look pretty good when they play. But, I guarantee you that despite my low post count, I know my way around CoH. I know what domination is supposed to do - that's not the part I don't get. What I don't get is why people build for it - because now that I have it, I'm not in the least bit impressed with it. |
Originally Posted by Greyhame
Not trying to sound like an ****** elitist, but this post is a classic example of why experience > 4 billion builds. All of the questions asked would be answered by actually playing the game a bit to level up.
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It was out of humility that I asked if I was missing something.
As for why I didn't have perma dom in that specific invasion, I did as suggested and went into a mission and found that I did have it. So, my only conclusion is that there was some server lag/latency or packet loss or some technical reason why my dom button didn't appear to be recharged.
So, please don't think you're dealing with a complete moron - I'm only unclear on why when I read about players building their doms they speak of perma-domination like it's as good as perma eclipse, or perma PA or perma Dull Pain. (and it's not even in the same boat as those)
I will confess to taking part in one msr at level 38 during 2xp weekend and then parking the toon for a couple of months until I decided to finish what I started with it. So, perhaps those 2 easy levels distorted my learning curve.
Thanks to the rest of you who answered my questions and shared your views.
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
One word: Lag
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That's a good point actually. I've had some lag oddities with my 'shade on iTrials. I'm in nova and turn the toggle off so I'm human, then suddenly the toggle is back on and I'm instantly back in nova (without the animation cast/time). Some kind of client/server lag glitch.
Perma domination is really, really good for farming and steamrolling teams.
On normal solo play, unless you are playing something like x5+ with bosses, it doesn't matter much.
I think it's worth to build for perma dom only if you plan on having the character as main source of money, TF cleared and such. And only on a powerset that has a low recharge, spammable AoE control, like fire or plants. (plants being the best by far with 15 seconds recharge Seeds.)
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Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis
I can't argue with the premise that an experienced player will make almost any build look pretty good when they play. But, I guarantee you that despite my low post count, I know my way around CoH. I know what domination is supposed to do - that's not the part I don't get. What I don't get is why people build for it - because now that I have it, I'm not in the least bit impressed with it.
It was out of humility that I asked if I was missing something. As for why I didn't have perma dom in that specific invasion, I did as suggested and went into a mission and found that I did have it. So, my only conclusion is that there was some server lag/latency or packet loss or some technical reason why my dom button didn't appear to be recharged. So, please don't think you're dealing with a complete moron - I'm only unclear on why when I read about players building their doms they speak of perma-domination like it's as good as perma eclipse, or perma PA or perma Dull Pain. (and it's not even in the same boat as those) I will confess to taking part in one msr at level 38 during 2xp weekend and then parking the toon for a couple of months until I decided to finish what I started with it. So, perhaps those 2 easy levels distorted my learning curve. Thanks to the rest of you who answered my questions and shared your views. |
Fair enough. I don't think I'd rate it as well as perma eclipse, but definitely as good as perma dp. Nonstop mez protection (which was admittedly more valuble pre-clarion) and most importantly - the ability to aoe mez an entire spawn *including* bosses all the time is invaluable protection (at least for my playstyles).
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I agree with Greyhame. I have three level 50 Dominators, all leveled from 1 to 50 completely PL free and the learning curve for all three is very different. |
Originally Posted by Greyhame
Fair enough. I don't think I'd rate it as well as perma eclipse, but definitely as good as perma dp. Nonstop mez protection (which was admittedly more valuble pre-clarion) and most importantly - the ability to aoe mez an entire spawn *including* bosses all the time is invaluable protection (at least for my playstyles).
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First up was Fire/Fire which is about as straight forward as it comes. He attained 50 before the Domination change, back when Dom used to give a damage bonus. He's been sitting and collecting dust more or less since he hit 50.
My second was Elec/Elec. A bit less straightforward and more strategy oriented. I liked (loved!) the toon enough to put a lot of work and effort into him and he has become my main toon. He has Perma-Dom and then some even though the time and energy I put into attaining Perma-Dom would probably have been better on my Fire/Fire. Dom does not affect Static Field, nor does it effect anything beyond the first target in Synaptic Overload, so the greatest benefit I get from it is in the free End refill every 90 seconds and the mez protection. While mez prot is a little less required in the Clarion-era, having mez protection from my inherent power has allowed me to go a different way and work on Barrier for my Destiny power.
I play DA missions at +4/x8 with him. The first mob gets nailed by Judgement, survivors run into the sleep patch and get dispatched. By that point, Dom has usually triggered. The next mob gets Held en masse by Paralytic Blast and summarily dispatched as well. For the third mob, I hit Barrier and enjoy enough invincible time to get the mob thoroughly locked down and quickly destroyed. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Compare that to my Blaster who has a very similar high recharge build. Without Domination, he has no mez protection, and so relies on Clarion to keep from getting chain-mezzed and murdered. Slotting Clarion means no Barrier, so already his survivability is much lower compared to my Dom. He has three holds, but needs a minimum of two applications to lockdown anything higher than a LT. I can use Judgement on a mob, but if there is more than one boss, there's no way I can juggle all the holding and still dish out enough damage to actually kill them. On the Elec Dom, Domination allows me to lockdown three bosses in perpetuity. My Blaster used to be my main, but with Perma-Dom my Dominator surpasses him in almost every conceivable way. And this is on a toon where I was fully aware going in that Perma-Dom is less effective due to the nature of Elec Control.
Speaking of less effective with Perma-Dom, I recently rolled and level-capped an Ice/Ice/Ice Dom. The Sleep power stinks, the Confuse is unaffacted AFAIK, and the hallmark power of the set, Ice Patch, gains no benefit from Domination at all. I rolled the toon when I was doing what I call "buff prospecting". I roll a toon using sets that are known to underperform hoping that someday I will reap the benefits of a buff. (P.S. It usually doesn't work, but it paid off in spades with my Gravity Controller.) Again, even knowing Perma-Dom is less necessary, I plan on making it a build goal just for the End refill (Ice/Ice is toggle heavy) and mez protection.
In my experience, not all Doms are created equally. The OP said his was Elec/Elec and the truth is that if the mez protection and end refill aren't enough for you, than Perma-Dom probably isn't necessary on that build. You might try to roll a Dominator who can take advantage of the full range of abilities given by Perma-Dom. Fire/, Dark/, and Plant/ come to mind.
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As an Earth Dominator, I loved Perma-dom.
Stalagmites, the area stun, becomes capable of instantly stunning all bosses in a group, and at permadon levels of recharge it's up every group. So Domination meant that everyone I ever fought was stunned, bar a small 5% who didn't get hit by the initial strike, and they couldn't mez me back.
I don't think Electric Control has any power that benefits as much. Tesla Cage can perma-hold a boss, and Paralysing Blast will hold a whole group, but your bread and butter area controls dont benefit from Domination do they?
Does the chain confuse get Domination on all targets, or does Domination just affect the first target? I don't know.
Also, you've got tools like end drain and knockdown that DO affect bosses straight away without Domination. As an Earth Controller without Domination up, my only power to cause instant effect on a angry boss would be Earthquake with its 3 second cast time. You've got Jolting Chain from the get go, plus end drain tools.
That may be why you find Domination underwhelming - because you've picked a primary that gains a lot less from it than some others do.
My opinion may stand in contrast to other people.
IMO perma Domination is fantastic on any Dominator primary. The reason is it grants mezz protection and causes most powers that don't require a psuedo-pet to increase both their duration and magnitude. You can hold War Walkers, for example, in one shot of your single target hold.
Domination even provides protection to exotic status effects like Confuse, Knockback, and Repel.
In contrast to one opinion posted earlier, IMO Ice Control is the one Dominator set for which perma-Domination is critical. The reason is the mezz protection and endurance boost keep Arctic Air running. Arctic Air doesn't directly benefit in the form of the word "Domination" appearing on the screen, but the difference between an Ice Dom with and without perma-Domination is, in my experience with two level 50 Ice perma-Doms, really extreme. It's a shame the power doesn't get "true" Domination though (another toggle, Telekinesis, does Dominate).
Anyway, the way Domination technically works is like a proc. Are you familiar with how Dual Pistols causes extra effects to be added to your attacks? Well Domination is like that except the extra effect it adds is a second mezz. For example, Electric's single target hold has these stats (info copied from City of Data):
- Target:
17.88s Held (mag 3)
26.82s Held (mag 3)If source.kStealth > 0.5
Code:
Power stacking makes this a little more complicated, but that's the essence of it. No Domination Domination Minion Held for 17.88s Held for 26.82s Lieut. Held for 17.88s Held for 26.82s Boss Not Held Held for 17.88s
The general rule is that powers without psuedo-pets work with Domination. In Electric's case, that's the single target hold, AoE hold, immobilizes, and first target hit by Synaptic Overload. Some sets have more powers it works with than others. In every case though a perma-Dom is a really scary abomination that way exceeds what the original intent of the Domination power was and creates a monsterously powerful character.
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Try a Mind/Icy Perma dom and you may change your view point. You have an AoE control every spawn that will hold even an entire spawn of bosses. With enough recharge above Perma and proper use of Power Boost you can (all by yourself) perma confuse an AV even through PToD.
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Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis
I can't argue with the premise that an experienced player will make almost any build look pretty good when they play. But, I guarantee you that despite my low post count, I know my way around CoH. I know what domination is supposed to do - that's not the part I don't get. What I don't get is why people build for it - because now that I have it, I'm not in the least bit impressed with it.
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
In my opinion, the full-time mez protection alone would sell it. But being able to lay out one-shot boss mezzes with all the main mezzes in your arsenal is pretty fabulous.
Before, when Domination was also a major source of +damage, the prevailing sentiment was that a non-permadom Dominator was sub-par and a permadom one was amazing. Now a non-permadom Dominator is pretty good, and a permadom one is still amazing.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
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Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Interestingly enough, it was probably somewhere in the devs intentions to one day see posts like these, when they changed domination for Dominators.|
Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis
What I don't get is why people build for it - because now that I have it, I'm not in the least bit impressed with it. [...] I'm only unclear on why when I read about players building their doms they speak of perma-domination like it's as good as perma eclipse, or perma PA or perma Dull Pain. (and it's not even in the same boat as those
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My opinion does contrast yours, though, in that I think its awesome and easily better than the listed powers, especially for an AT which spends a fair amount of time in melee (my blaster would prefer domination, before any of the others listed). Complete mez protection and the endurance refill, alone, would assist with any number of hurdles or even simple build considerations.
To each their own on this one, so long as you're enjoying your Dom.
Didn't read the whole thread, but in your Mids build I noticed you had Hasten turned on. I know this sound really simple, but I get more mileage out of having Domination on auto and having to hit hasten when it comes up. I had it reversed initially and it just doesn't work quite as well. Like I said, it's a simple thing that shouldn't really matter, but for me it did.
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I can't speak for all combos, but perma-dom/hasten on Mind/x (I use Psionic) is pretty much I-win or god-mode. I'm soloing GMs and TFs. No mez, 1-shot control bosses; 2-shot EBs. Never run out of end.
My lastest accomplishment is a 3-door solo in a BAF.
The mez and end refill would be great on it's own but the control it allows is awesome. Never have to take damage if really don't want to in most places. Haven't taken it to an AV in a mish yet, we'll see heh.
Oh yeah, I also keep Domination on auto and actively click hasten.
-Number 6 Mind/Psionic Ultra-Dominator/Master of Siren's Call
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That's the best way to go -- you often have only a small window of time before Domination drops and you can no longer activate it.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
I know this sound really simple, but I get more mileage out of having Domination on auto and having to hit hasten when it comes up. I had it reversed initially and it just doesn't work quite as well. Like I said, it's a simple thing that shouldn't really matter, but for me it did.
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The power that is on auto is processed server-side, so it goes off regardless of network lag, etc., at the absolutely earliest time that it can possibly fire. That tiny bit of time can sometimes mean the difference between Domination activating versus dropping.
The only thing you have to watch out for is that if a power is queued the auto power won't fire, so if you're queuing your attack chain nonstop you may want to start inserting short pauses around the time Domination looks like it's almost recharged.
I'll risk sounding like a broken record by posting my thoughts on Domination. Put simply, I believe it's one of the strongest powers in the game. A permadom Dominator is the closest thing you'll get to a tankmage in this game.
Not only do you completely negate the single biggest stumbling block squishies face, you also get to have essentially unlimited endurance, and 1 shot mezz entire spawns, including bosses. You turn every fight into a cake walk.
This is on an AT that is at the top end of the damage scale,can choose to play ranged, melee or something in between, and has access to pets, and has access to some of the best APPs in the game.
I'd go so far as to say that Permadom is even more powerful than perma eclipse. Who needs damage res when the enemies can't fight back?
I think if the OP had played one of the primaries that benefits a bit more, he would not think poorly of it.
Personally my superdom is a plant/psi/ice and the level of damage, control and chaos she can create is ridiculous. Her APP caps her HP with hoarfrost and that only has a downtime of 20 seconds. She has a ton of SL defense and two purples cap her to everything, she can cast what is possibly the strongest AoE debuff in the game, and has a really good AoE damage power in ice storm.
Bottom line: doms are awesome.
Against anything but AVs and GMs and to a lesser extent EBs, Permadom is easily more powerful than any self-buff available in my opinion. What other power allows for complete (100%, not 95%) safety from enemies? That's the beauty. It doesn't matter how strong the enemy is. A boss could have a 50% tohit bonus and strike for 5000 damage per hit and it wouldn't matter. Perma Dull Pain? Perma Eclipse? Meh, those only prolong life. But, mez the boss and he's about as harmless as a RWZ training dummy. Now apply that to entire spawns and you have Permadom.
Ok, I admit it. I have gotten to level to with an elec/elec dom.
I looked through the boards, asked for some help, got some, and used a lot of merits to get a lot of converters to afford a very pricy build with a lot of recharge that supposed to give me "perma-dom".
I was at a nem invasion, and after a time, the dom bar filled, and I popped it - and then, it dropped - but dom wasn't ready yet. My global recharge is over 150%, and my understanding is 123% is perma-dom
So, my questions are:
1. Do nems have a -recharge to any of their attacks? I looked on my buff bar, and there were so many icons, it was hard to tell what was a buff and what might have been a debuff.
2. For the sake of argument, let's say I do have "perma-dom" - aside from seeing the word "Domination" in orange, I don't see any extra damage being dished out. Some numbers could be covered up by the word domination. I also notice my end bar gets filled - which is reason enough to try to maintain "Domination". I also get that while in Domination status, I have a certain amount of kb protection, as well as mez protection.
While in that nem league, I got some buffs and was able to have permadom - but aside from that protection, I didn't notice anything else special about it. If I slotted more for end recovery and damage and less for recharge, would domination even be worth aiming for? After spending almost 4 billion on this toon, I'm ready to rip out the IOs and sell them because now that I supposedly have perma Dom, I really don't see anything special about it.
Here's my build. What am I missing?