Reports from a returner.
The main reason posts get derided, ignored, or deleted is because they come in with guns blazing and act angry, entitled, or both. Your post isn't either, so I wouldn't fear.
I think this really points to a problem someone else mentioned in another thread. There really ought to be a better explanation in-game of what you can and can't do. Like, if you have a character with IOs, there needs to be a pop-up saying "You've got IOs slotted. We're sorry, but without an Invention License or VIP subscription IOs will not work." Something that helps a Premium not feel quite so alone, even if it's just nudging them to pay more money. Something that provides grounding and context for why things are the way they are.
Admittedly, I really haven't seen the game from a Premium POV, so I don't know if such things actually do exist somewhere.
Edit: But, yes, Paragon wants you to spend money. So they're going to restrict non-essential aspects of the game. The takeaway shouldn't be "Premiums are second-class," but instead "Being a VIP is so much better, and it's easy to be one." How effective Paragon is at communicating that subtext is something else altogether.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
When returning to a game that has had changes made, especially after a long absence, it's often a good idea to familiarize yourself with what has changed.
From the CoH website, I'd recommend the Freedom: Player Choices page, particularly the Side-by-Side Comparison tab.
From the ParagonWiki site, I'd recommend the Paragon Rewards Program page and the Issue page. From the Issue page there are links to each Issue that has been released so that you can start reading about what changes were made to the game since you left. Since it also gives the release dates, it's easy to tell what has come out since you've been away.
As a Premium player you do not have access to in-game support as you've already seen. You do however still have support options available through the City of Heroes Support site. If you haven't created a Support account yet then you will need to create one before being able to get help. The Support account is not the same as your Master account or your Game account, although it can use the same username and password when you create it, assuming that someone else hasn't created a Support account with that username already.
Some of the items you mentioned are available to Premium players by purchasing a License, such as the MasterMind license you purchaed. The Inventions license costs $2.00/month and there are other licenses available for purchase as well although I'm not as familiar with most of them.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Will probably keep plugging away. Whole thing feels very sad and VERY lonely.
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Also, if you have enough tokens for chat channels, make sure to join Union Chat.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
The main reason posts get derided, ignored, or deleted is because they come in with guns blazing and act angry, entitled, or both. Your post isn't either, so I wouldn't fear.
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Those get derided, ignored, or deleted. Yours not only will likely not get any of those reactions, but might actually be talked about in meetings at Paragon Studios as a data point for the experience of premium players returning.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
I recommend you restart your characters.
if you want to play redside - play on Freedom. It is probably the only server with an active redside.
you can make MM's and all AT's on either side. So you can remake all blue if you want.
Everyone now gets the fitness pool (stamina) as an inherent, but old characters have to respec to get that. So it is easy to just start new and get them.
Plus there are enough changes that you will learn the characters.
If you really want to not be lonely, start a hero on freedom, go to Atlas Park and join a Death From Below team. The new version of the sewers. You will get a team of 8 quickly and be off and running.
Hey, Bloody. Welcome back. Sorry your return was that bumpy.
Obviously, every F2P transition is going to have some pain points- some things that were once part of the subscription have been gated away, either under smaller monthly fees or free if you're a high-enough tier Premium subscriber (you did apply the Paragon Points you've already earned? right?)
Unfortunately, you seem to have stumbled upon most of those pain points- archetype locks, IO locks, etc.
I do wish there was more ingame feedback for these as you stumble into them- yes, others will point to the info on the website and such, but you aren't the first to miss it.
Stick with it- if it makes you feel better, you really HAVE hit the worst of the barriers already.
![](https://sites.google.com/site/chasyork/_/rsrc/1286288783877/home/chasebanner.jpg)
Admittedly, I really haven't seen the game from a Premium POV
No one here has, it looks like. That's a problem in itself. There is no one with experience of the trip up without anything or very little. Hyperbole-It's much like 'rich vs poor' or 'haves vs have-nots'.
The takeaway shouldn't be "Premiums are second-class,"
That in itself would be a lie, because they certainly are. Actually, they're more like 3rd class or worse.
the game is miserable
You said it, not me, but...though the words are harsh, they are also true as I've seen it. The experience has been a poor one. I only paid to access she who was my first(Get your head out of the gutter), the one I spent the most time and work on. Buying more would be pointless, as there is nothing I truly desire in the entire list. Not even AE rewards.
The restrictions on premium do not lead me me to desire VIP. They lead to depresion and annoyance. Whilst this can be effective tactic for purchase, it's...the game should be saying '"You rock, but VIP can make you rock MORE!" Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt. Can't explain it any other way, what with the deaths I've been taking on my weakers. You hit your buttons and still die against things your own level. Dunno why.
There was one nice thing I found: The Find Contact button. All right-level contacts, even unknown ones, show up in it, and you can warp to them if you haven't visted them already. That's a good feature.
Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt.
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This is getting repeated so often it's getting worn, but consider: you came back to the game without paying. A year ago, not paying would have gotten you zero game. Now, not paying gets you 90% of the game. Trying to compare how the game is when you pay for it versus how it is when you don't pay for it and getting upset when the balance is inequal is foolish in the extreme.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
If Premium players weren't treated as second class and VIP players treated better than them, there'd be no VIP players.
And if there were no VIP players, everyone would be treated worse than they are now, assuming there was still was a game to treat anyone any way.
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Admittedly, I really haven't seen the game from a Premium POV
No one here has, it looks like. That's a problem in itself. There is no one with experience of the trip up without anything or very little. Hyperbole-It's much like 'rich vs poor' or 'haves vs have-nots'. |
In fact I find it refreshing to be able to play the original basic game again since it's the game I first fell in love with.
Quote:
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the game is miserable You said it, not me, |
Many are the posters who come back saying basically, "You have screwed us all over, the game is miserable, the devs are idiots, and you OWE us a better game, even though we aren't paying anything!" |
though the words are harsh, they are also true as I've seen it. The experience has been a poor one. |
The restrictions on premium do not lead me me to desire VIP. They lead to depresion and annoyance. |
Whilst this can be effective tactic for purchase, it's...the game should be saying '"You rock, but VIP can make you rock MORE!" Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt. |
Can't explain it any other way, what with the deaths I've been taking on my weakers. You hit your buttons and still die against things your own level. Dunno why. |
There is more to the game than mashing buttons. If that's how you play you have no one to blame but yourself.
Admittedly, I really haven't seen the game from a Premium POV
No one here has, it looks like. That's a problem in itself. There is no one with experience of the trip up without anything or very little. Hyperbole-It's much like 'rich vs poor' or 'haves vs have-nots'. The takeaway shouldn't be "Premiums are second-class," That in itself would be a lie, because they certainly are. Actually, they're more like 3rd class or worse. the game is miserable You said it, not me, but...though the words are harsh, they are also true as I've seen it. The experience has been a poor one. I only paid to access she who was my first(Get your head out of the gutter), the one I spent the most time and work on. Buying more would be pointless, as there is nothing I truly desire in the entire list. Not even AE rewards. The restrictions on premium do not lead me me to desire VIP. They lead to depresion and annoyance. Whilst this can be effective tactic for purchase, it's...the game should be saying '"You rock, but VIP can make you rock MORE!" Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt. Can't explain it any other way, what with the deaths I've been taking on my weakers. You hit your buttons and still die against things your own level. Dunno why. There was one nice thing I found: The Find Contact button. All right-level contacts, even unknown ones, show up in it, and you can warp to them if you haven't visted them already. That's a good feature. |
Many of us beta'd the system as Premiums, and unfortunately as beta testers, we were coming in A LOT more informed than your average returning players. We followed the news, the postings, and the discussions the devs had regarding what they were doing, so unfortunately, we didn't suffer the same stumbling blocks as a returning player that just "downloads and go's."
Because of that, we were pretty crappy test subjects. I'll take some of the blame there.
I've left and returned to MANY MMOs and even when you don't have the jarring alternate-payment-model to deal with, the return trip can be rocky. F2P transitions really do turn things over. The communication should be better- the information put right in front of you before you unlock. There should never be a "I made a decision before the information was provided to me." Then again, all those other MMO's I experienced suffered much the same. If I didn't do the research beforehand, i'd have run into several dozen barriers.
Just because the others do it, though, doesn't mean I think its OK. I expect more from NCSoft. That said:
- I don't fault them for gating away certain archetypes.
- I don't fault them for gating away IO's.
- I certainly don't fault them for limiting their customer support to currently-paying customers. Live support -even modest support- is EXPENSIVE.
We can't compare-n-contrast here, but go to any other hybrid-model MMO and see what free and returning players get. I've tried them. The devs here have been some of the most generous with what they offer to returning players, and the barriers put in place are some of the easiest to ignore. When people get irritated with the complaints, its largely because what IS offered has been rather generous and the complaints sound like indignant self-entitlement issues. Your case was presented much more clearly and hit on very real 'rough spots' so hopefully it won't evoke the same overzealous backlash...
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Second Class... Third Class? Hardly.
The entire game is balanced against characters NOT using the invention system. You get access to a HUGE chunk of the game with a few additional perks- plus the "free" player restrictions removed- with absolutely NO requirement to pay a penny again. Do you get everything that you'd get if you paid a subscription? Of course not. Are you really surprised?
If you haven't used up all your unlocks, consider a fresh-rolled character. The starting zones on each side have been revamped, as you noted, and they're worth experiencing once. it'll help acclimate you to the characters and naturally encounter some of the changes you may have missed during your absence. Then, maybe, give your old mains another round.
![](https://sites.google.com/site/chasyork/_/rsrc/1286288783877/home/chasebanner.jpg)
Admittedly, I really haven't seen the game from a Premium POV
No one here has, it looks like. That's a problem in itself. There is no one with experience of the trip up without anything or very little. Hyperbole-It's much like 'rich vs poor' or 'haves vs have-nots'. The takeaway shouldn't be "Premiums are second-class," That in itself would be a lie, because they certainly are. Actually, they're more like 3rd class or worse. the game is miserable You said it, not me, but...though the words are harsh, they are also true as I've seen it. The experience has been a poor one. I only paid to access she who was my first(Get your head out of the gutter), the one I spent the most time and work on. Buying more would be pointless, as there is nothing I truly desire in the entire list. Not even AE rewards. The restrictions on premium do not lead me me to desire VIP. They lead to depresion and annoyance. Whilst this can be effective tactic for purchase, it's...the game should be saying '"You rock, but VIP can make you rock MORE!" Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt. Can't explain it any other way, what with the deaths I've been taking on my weakers. You hit your buttons and still die against things your own level. Dunno why. There was one nice thing I found: The Find Contact button. All right-level contacts, even unknown ones, show up in it, and you can warp to them if you haven't visted them already. That's a good feature. |
Also, Defenders will generally have a harder time than Brutes when it comes to solo play.
Though playing at 0/0 solo, I don't know exactly why you're dying as I've run a bit higher difficulty with an unslotted Defender and survived (with Dark Miasma, Cold Domination, and Radiation Emission), could just be rusty or could be power picks.
As I've suggested to many a friends looking to check out CoH, when it comes to the F2P option, I encourage them to shell out enough to hit Tier 3 (I believe that's when you unlock global channel access)
No idea how far along the tiers you are, but if you want access to IOs can always buy the way up to their access (tier 7 I believe it is).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
The BrandX Collection
As a fellow premium player, I cant say Ive had a similar experience as yourself. That said, I do have enough Paragon Rewards earned that Im not locked out of much save for the itrials. The funny thing is, I dont use the AE, I dont use inventions, I dont pvp and I have zero interest in Praetoria or the trials.
Freedom has been a great thing for me! I can pick and choose just what I want to play.
I do sort of agree with this statement though;
I feel I have TOO much for not paying. I would go back to subscribing but there just isnt that much incentive for me to. I feel VIPs should be getting all sorts of stuff for their subscription that make me want to subscribe but as it is right now, I dont feel that. Im not sure what NCSoft can offer players that would make me switch back at this point.
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It would get a lot of screams from the forums, but it would provide distinct experiences for VIPs.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
I'm hoping that the new Incarnate abilities will provide such a widening of character concepts that it will be far too tempting not to go VIP just to use them to finish building a character that you envision. Along with the possibility of linking Battalion (read: full content, and not simply raids) and future "epic" content to VIP status, I can see it being a successful lure towards paying for the content.
It would get a lot of screams from the forums, but it would provide distinct experiences for VIPs. |
I want less-cosmic-level-power content. for all my site that aren't 50.
... I also want a phone with a semi-accurate autocomplete. I give up fixing this mess.
![](https://sites.google.com/site/chasyork/_/rsrc/1286288783877/home/chasebanner.jpg)
I feel I have TOO much for not paying. I would go back to subscribing but there just isnt that much incentive for me to. I feel VIPs should be getting all sorts of stuff for their subscription that make me want to subscribe but as it is right now, I dont feel that. Im not sure what NCSoft can offer players that would make me switch back at this point.
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I feel the exact same way. I dropped my subscription as soon as Freedom went live and was astounded at how little the game changed for me! Really, the only things that bothered me were the fact that I couldn't maintain my SG base, and the limited number of character slots available (I don't do incarnate stuff, other than the Alpha on my main). Thanks to our reward tier system deal thingy, we can unlock junk that we would otherwise not have access to, simply for having previously purchased OTHER junk we wanted. As a tier 8, when I dropped to Premium, I still had access to AE, inventions, the market, and other stuff that would still be gated to me were this a different game without a rewards tier system. Of course I still re-subbed for 14 months during the winter deal, just because Im a helluva guy.
In my opinion, they shouldn't give so much away for free. Either that, or give VIPs MORE than they get now. As it is, it's hard to justify spending money on a subscription when, as a veteran player, Im pretty much given the farm for nothing.
Look at it this way - most of the stuff that is unavailable to free players, wasn't available to PAYING customers for YEARS. In fact, I might go so far as to guess that free players now have access to MORE than paying customers used to get - new zones and powersets and whatnot that we didn't have back then.
Larry: Owen, what the hell did you do to my wife?
Owen: Well I don't want to say on the phone - all I can tell you is that I killed her last night.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
...the game should be saying '"You rock, but VIP can make you rock MORE!" Currently, it's "You want no not suck? Go VIP!" as it crushes you into the dirt. |
In that sense, by having the basic game free and restricting only the more advanced features, I think the model works perfectly; it sold me on going VIP, at least, without ever feeling like I was being cheated out of the game as a free player. The people affected most negatively by it are the ones who were already familiar with the game, had already become accustomed to all the more advanced features, and then found them suddenly locked up as VIP content. But something had to stay locked up to keep the company in business, and the developers seemed to work hard, harder than any other MMO I've seen, to make the path to level 50 wide open for everyone.
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
There is more to the game than mashing buttons. |
Power picks:
Defender Build 1(Initial):
Cold Domination: Ice Shield, Glacial Shield, Infrigidate, Snow Storm
Radiation Blast: Irradiate, Neutrino Bolt, X-Ray Beam.
Speed: Flurry, Super Speed
Defender Build 2(Offence, after taking some licks):
Cold Domination: Ice Shield, Glacial Shield, Snow Storm.
Radiation Blast:Irradiate, X-Ray Beam, Neutrino Bolt, Electron Haze.
Leadership: Assault, Tactics
Most random packs here in Steel Canyon are twos and threes, sometimes four for Minions, one or two Lieutenants or Bosses. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong other than attacking in the first place. No difficulty mods. In the missions is hard too.
Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm not exactly a returner, but I've been playing less and less and dropped down to Premium. My biggest gripe is that the character that I've been playing the most, enough to get all T4 incarnate abilities and completely IO'd out is now essentially unenhanced unless I make a second build full of SOs, or spend the next $15 which I think gets me to the IO reward level.
I'm not exactly a returner, but I've been playing less and less and dropped down to Premium. My biggest gripe is that the character that I've been playing the most, enough to get all T4 incarnate abilities and completely IO'd out is now essentially unenhanced unless I make a second build full of SOs, or spend the next $15 which I think gets me to the IO reward level.
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
I'm not exactly a returner, but I've been playing less and less and dropped down to Premium. My biggest gripe is that the character that I've been playing the most, enough to get all T4 incarnate abilities and completely IO'd out is now essentially unenhanced unless I make a second build full of SOs, or spend the next $15 which I think gets me to the IO reward level.
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Really, if you can go without Incarnate stuff, Premium plus the Invention and Market licenses is much, much cheaper per month than a subscription.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Not at Level 8(Widow), not at Level 15(Defender). I agree more powers mean more options. I have all my options as slotted as I can. I don't have the Infamy/Influence to slot more. Hitting everything as it comes up. Not taking on more than one or two guys a time. Simple, basic, sensible. Hitting everything at the right times. I do not understand WHY I am dying, but I am. It's part of why I'm asking 'What am I doing wrong'?
Power picks: Defender Build 1(Initial): Cold Domination: Ice Shield, Glacial Shield, Infrigidate, Snow Storm Radiation Blast: Irradiate, Neutrino Bolt, X-Ray Beam. Speed: Flurry, Super Speed Defender Build 2(Offence, after taking some licks): Cold Domination: Ice Shield, Glacial Shield, Snow Storm. Radiation Blast:Irradiate, X-Ray Beam, Neutrino Bolt, Electron Haze. Leadership: Assault, Tactics Most random packs here in Steel Canyon are twos and threes, sometimes four for Minions, one or two Lieutenants or Bosses. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong other than attacking in the first place. No difficulty mods. In the missions is hard too. Maybe I'm missing something. |
![](http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/KojiroJames/neversurrendersig.jpg)
This will likely be derided, ignored or deleted simply because of what I am: a Premium returning after a long absence, 'whining about nothing'. Regardless, I feel the need to post, so I shall post. Isn't going to be a story or very interesting, most likely. Just what I've done or tried to do and how I've felt during it.
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37, Necro/Pain. 6 Paragon Merits now, from 4.
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-Hmm, title looks nice enough. Who's the War Machine clone? Nice music.
Login. All my stuff's locked. Fair enough, just unlock. I'm sure my Mastermind will be unlocked once I....oh. Maybe not.
Ok, unlock my second character(15 Defender, Cold Mastery/Radiation). That works out. Let's look around.
Huh. I keep dying to street punks as minions at my level, no numbers or difficulty mods. Maybe they buffed the difficulty a bit. This girl mostly did teams to even get where she is.
Use build 2 to get a little more offence. It helps...a little. Still drop to a stiff breeze.
A piece of lunacy-I still have a quest from the Invention Tutorial. Upon completeing the quest, I cannot turn in, because you need a license to even talk to the guy. Customer support notes that I don't get response because I'm not VIP and suggests the wiki. Didn't answer the damm ticket.
Third unlock, Arachnos Widow 6 I'd made before Freedom, when they changed the level requirement down. He works. How strange.
What the heck happened to Mercy?! Fort Darwin's occupied by Longbow. Hell, most of the old area's occupied. And all of them outclass my Level 6 badly. Doing the contacts I have is a case of running like hell to the missions(a really long distance), and even in the missions my performance is...sad. This Dr.Graves thing seems interesting. 'Tell them I'm a noob'? 1. I may not even have to lie, the way I'm feeling. 2.Given the point of the Villain Elites is that we're sick of all those Destined Ones and are putting ourselves in the spotlight...
Fourth unlock: Electric/Electric Villain Brute 10 I'd made-I liked the though of destroying the END of all enemies, rendering them all entirely useless. Well, she's more survivable than the others, certainly. She's still caught in Mercy and the strangeness there. The New Mercy City looks nice, though-what little I've seen.
Cut off most outgoings due to card issues(You know what sucks? Having one of those top up credit cards and having NOWHERE TO TOP IT UP ANYWHERE-most everywhere that used to, doesn't anymore, even places their website says does, do not), spend cash on unlocking Mastermind. I can use my first and most used character again!
Find Inventions are blocked. Well, I guess. Should sell off all this crappy salvage and Invention Recipies. Not like I used them before, nor will again.
You know what I really wish? That dragging Inspirations to minions was't hit-and-miss. You can't tell what you've dragged it on as they don't highlight.
My minions are OK-ish. Single Origins in most powers, used respec to get Inherant Fitness, have Leadership Auras. I was damm lucky that in the old days a kind man I teamed with gave me a massive amount of Infamy.
Doing Sirroco's missions. Fighting Silver was messy, and I may have to auto-complete fighting Barracuda. Why? My minions won't attack when swimming and the map's nothing but water aside from a few ships. I can take the Eagles alone, but not the Chasers.
No one's around on Union.
Seems weird that even higher Inspirations are under a wall.
Looked at these forums. Guides still don't apply, now moreso than ever. Looked at topics-very much a case of 'dirty freeloaders deserve nothing but contempt for daring to do or ask anything.' Not just from the posters(whenever a Premium has piped up-which is rare in itself-they're shouted down), but where one is allowed to post.(can't talk to the 'European community', can't talk about powersets in their proper place, can't talk about much of anything.)
Will probably keep plugging away. Whole thing feels very sad and VERY lonely.