Super Packs on the PMarket 2/14/12

It's gambling. Let folks who don't like it being called that deal with it.

The irrational fear of that term is just that: completely irrational.

Arguably some folks don't roll at all. The simply use merits and AE tickets to outright buy what they want. There are plenty of people who don't mind spending 35 days to outright BUY a pvp IO.

but I do see your larger point.

Well then I guess I was wrong. You think that all gambling of any sort is bad, then? Why?

Err, what? That's not what I got from his post at all. No where did he say he thinks gambling is bad. Or did you mean an earlier post?

Also why do you fear so much the super packs being called gambling? I'm . . . just not seeing the issue with calling it that.

There's no moral or immoral connotation here unless folks specifically try to fit there own morality on it. Which I find completely silly.

Yes, thank you! I was starting to wonder if maybe I was suddenly on a ship filled with crazy people, lol.

CCGs are not even gambling in the general sense, let alone the legal definition.

Yup, and Video Game addiction is becoming a real problem. However, so is anything that people over indulge in.

There was nothing underhanded about it. It is what it is: gambling.

And I'm not going to take anyone seriously that is either unwilling or unable to call something exactly what it is. You want to pretend that these packs are something other than what they are. At best, that is self-delusional. At worst, that is downright dishonest.

And, again, you are resorting to slinging mud. Very mature.

Same here. I had an uncle die of alcohol addiction, one of my friend's parents is also an alcoholic, and I have a family member that is addicted to gambling.

And I'm getting a laugh over YOUR butthurt that you can't even call these packs exactly what they are: gambling.

For the record, the items I want the most from these packs are the ATOs and I'm going to get them with in-game actions.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

This is soooo funny.

You tell me. If he doesn't think gambling is bad then why does he even care in the first place? Let alone the fact that CCGs or anything like them (like Super Packs) really are not even in the first place.

You do realize that just because you keep saying it's gambling doesn't actually make it so?

I don't want to make any assumptions here, you know, 'cause that's apparently a bad thing.

You do realize that there are some people that don't gamble, are personally against gambling (for themselves), but don't have ANY issue with 'you" or anyone else gambling if they choose too AND they don't think the gamblers are ebil sinners etc... right?

Who the hell cares?

As I said before you can call it whatever you like, it's still spending real life money for a CHANCE AT in-game items.

Doesn't change the fact that some like that and some like to buy the items in them in question, outright.

Doesn't matter if we call it gambling, rutebega, cross words of idicoy with friends, etc. LOL.

Why do you feel the need to keep name calling? Perhaps you would like some time on my couch to tell me about your life and what is bothering you?

The random chance is what gives the rush. That is me speaking from personal experience. It was the same for a pack of cards, or hero clix, or even a random grab of comics. The thing is I am stimulated by geeky things more than the rush of just getting more money.

SHOCKING!! LOGIC!!!!

Not allowed on an internet forum! Dirty blasphemer!!




Was that too much sarcasm?

My understanding is that the current legal definitions of gambling have a series of tests, and that one of the required criteria is that there is a chance of output of either cash, or something that is readily converted to cash.

There was a fascinating story on NPR a while back about an online casino game site that was doing very well, and had successfully avoided all the legal problems that other sites have had lately, because they had a brilliant idea: they never pay out. You get some initial chips for signing up, a certain number of chips per day added to your account, and you can pay real money any time you want for more chips. There were a variety of games you can play against various combinations of computer and live opponents... but there was no way to convert your chips back to real money, or get them out of the system. Therefore, not gambling.

CoH's situation seems similar; there is no legal, supported, or easy way to convert your randomized card draws back into real money. (This is unlike a physical CCG, where that Alpha Mox could pay your real rent for the month fairly easily.) You're paying to play a game, but it's not gambling; there's no situation in which you can end up with more real money than what you started with.

From a moral standpoint, however... anyone who has self-control issues with actual gambling and a limited budget should not play this, as it's likely to trigger some of the same excitement/risk/reward centers in your head. (On the other hand, it's far more limited than a casino or certain Korean games... chances are most folks aren't going to need to drop more than a few hundred even if they obsess over the pet and get unlucky. I've been involved with testing for other MMOs where it was not unusual for people to have to drop four figures to have a decent chance of getting the rare mount; the odds on the rarest item were at least an order of magnitude less than here, and possibly more like two.)

TL;DR: IMO it's not gambling, and significantly less dangerous than most common things that are. But if you have medical or moral issues with even small amounts of gambling, it's probably close enough to trigger related issues.

/thread?

You mean paying real money to play a game, and then get a chance to win in-game items? I think that used to be called a "subscription". These new F2P models do kind of dial that up to 11 though, so I can see where it might get confusing for a lot of people.

It apparently bothers a subsection of the rather vociferous minority who engage in, ahem, "healthy" discussions on this very bulletin board, LOL. It bothers them so much that they won't shut up about it even when that wasn't even the original topic of the thread.

I'm surprised any one of them even bothers to respond to my posts, even. It's not like I have any kind of influence over the devs... or do I? >.>

Really I don't care what you think.

This was more of my issue with what it is called.

That's an enormous oversimplification that ignores everything from scaled betting in casinos and odds-making at race tracks to different varieties of Lotto tickets and Bingo prizes. It also misses the psychological point underscoring Ironik's posts - it's not the payoff that stimulates the brain, it's the anticipation. But that's for another thread.

Apparently some posters can't. It would be interesting to see how many of them have regularly played CCGs, purchased lottery tickets, gone to casinos, etc., etc.

My standpoint is that it's a purchasing issue. If I wish to buy an item, then I don't want random substitutes, nothing more. I'm fully aware of the business and marketing behind Super Packs and the like, so it's a little disappointing for Paragon Studios to be playing us like this.

That's OK. I don't care what you think, either.

Kind of makes you wonder why anyone is bothering to post anything here? Maybe we all hope there's a chance that we'll find someone who agrees with us and we'll make a new friend.

But that... is a gamble.

Why not just not buy the packs?

I beg to differ. This thread has been so thoroughly derailed that there's no longer any hope of it ever getting back on track. Why, I'm entirely certain that the mods have it targeted from orbit already.

I'm going to take this as a challenge and match those funds. Think of the devs' children.