Super Packs on the PMarket 2/14/12

Which is where I'm worried that they'll start hiding the high end stuff behind these things, or really start putting more and more costumes or content behind it. Right now, it's an experiment.

But the booster pack model can turn into a real money sink for players, and a distracting temptation to devs.

Every single time I try to bring up EVE and plexes or a system like that for this game is goes ignored. At least one person around here has some understanding of how good things could be here. Cheers.

I'd quibble on "many", but I think it's pretty clear that CoH Super Packs are *less* gambling-like than CCG card foil packs. In particular, even if you do well above average at point X, you can't funnel that back into more play and have lost it by point Y; which avoids most of the "fail to quit when ahead" problem that's a significant chunk of the risk of gambling problems.

These are the same CCG foil packs that are at the registers at the grocery store between the gum and the celebrity tabloids. There doesn't seem to be a general societal problem with kids *far* younger than are officially supposed to be playing CoH plunking down their hard-earned nickels for a random selection of pocket monsters under conditions that are demonstrably more problematic than the CoH situation.

My personal opinion is that I'm not comfortable with individual accessories for a game having an equivalent price higher than a new AAA game; the Black Wolf is in the neighborhood of five times that if I've done the math correctly. I also have a strong personal preference for fixed-price deals that are clearly described in advance; my experience with random-box deals in other MMOs has not been something I enjoyed or spent much cash on in comparison to the amount I've spent on CoH's previous costume packs. As far as I was concerned, the "Collectable" part of CCG was an annoying and frustrating impediment to the smooth and enjoyable playing of the actual game; and so far that experience seems likely to be similarly poor for the Super Packs.

That said, I don't expect all parts of the game to be equally enjoyable to me, and my general opinion is that attempting to campaign or legislate against entertainment options based on any one person or group's "morality" is frequently more harmful to society in the long run than the "vice" they are complaining about.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Words to live by.

And the next time you buy points for something you actually like because you spent them on these supposedly terrible Super Packs? You're still spending more money and proving the Super Packs are working as intended... generating profit.

Even better than intended if people openly opposed to them spend points on them anyway.

Disagreeing about a product offered on the paragon market doesn't mean it's still not one big happy family.

We still are.

And funny enough this thread is still here.

Bottom line some folks want to be able to buy some of the items in the packs outright and don't want a chance at the item.

Nothing stated here changes that fact.

brofist o/ \o

I do wonder how the substantial differences between EVE's ingame economy and CoH's would affect that, though. It's an interesting question.

I am subscribed to many global channels on Virtue and haven't heard a negative word yet in-game (I played for 3 hours tonight). Heard lots people talking about what they got in their packs, happy about the costume piece drops, and especially freaking out on some of the enhancements. Not too different from late last night when they hit the market.

Outstanding. I can't wait till they gate every single desireable thing behind gambling; and yes, its coming. I am not naive enough to think that they're stopping now.... they're getting everyone's feet wet with the high drop-rate re the Elemental set. Later.... that drop rate WILL be adjusted. Count on it.

Oh well. "Aliens: Colonial Marines" was already lookin' pretty good - its looking even better now.

Sell me something at a set price, and I will happily buy it. But I'm not gambling for this ****, and you can take that to the bank. Repugnant: my best word for this **** of an idea that stinks to high heaven. And I can also tell you, personal insults are not exactly changing my allegiance over to the "O YAY, GAMBLING!" camp. Nooooooooot hardly.

You're usually offered a little taste of an addictive substance, to get you rolling/all enthused. Then and only then do the kid gloves come off.

I think I'll pass.

Because they're not <Insert preferred adjective here> enough to come out with a table top RPG system. Or license the publishing rights to a SJG's GURPS World-book or a d20 System stand-alone book.

It's also because CCG's were the cherry flavored Crack Cocaine of the juvenile recreational gaming industry. If mommy or daddy didn't have enough for a NES/SNES or Sega MS/Genesis or even the Turbo Grafx, they could send junior off to the comic / game / baseball card store for a pack of something called Magic. Sometimes we'd run a sale, a deck and a booster for $10, or 4 boosters for $10, or even cobble a C/U 60 card deck for $5 to get them hooked.

Eventually the parents would come across what their kids were doing with their "don't bother me money." Parents would either support the hobby, not understand it, not care, or get bent out of shape over it. They would drag their crying kid in to the store and "demand" we buy their cards back. Of course once opened the depreciation sets in and card quality would count. 5 cents a common, 25 cents an uncommon and 50 cents a rare was a blind bid to buy the cards and the parents would jump. Lil Billy knew his Rares were "Boss" but he was already in enough trouble. Cards were bought, sorted, put in binders or file boxes and then the vultures would linger.

The moral is that some people are hooked to the Super Packs, others are not, others are causal players and will throw extra points at them. I only truly feel sorry for the OCD players who won't stop til all their character are ATOX'd out, have the costume pieces and that Black Wolf Pet!

My next post will be more Nihilistic and detail Physical Ownership and Gambling...

Taz

The Broski's, have not thought about them for some time. I love the way they would sweep into a zone 30-50 strong to gank someone.

Well they tried it. It just sort of fell apart. You were supposed to get some in-game thing for buying the rulebooks too.

Since you're not an unintelligent person, I'm assuming you're being deliberately obtuse. It's impossible to actually believe that these things aren't a mild form of gambling without an ulterior motive that's either conscious or subconscious. Using the extreme comparison of BB guns to nukes is just bombastic (ha) hyperbole trying to shut me up.

Let me correct your analogy and reiterate what I said earlier:

A BB gun and Weatherby Mark V rifle are both guns which reside on a continuum of weapons. BB guns are less powerful, while the Weatherby is on the other end of the scale. But here's the important part: they're both guns. Just as spending money to take a chance at getting something in the Superpack and spending money to take a chance at roulette are both forms of gambling.

I know people dismiss BB guns as "not real guns" but they actually are. Every year a half-dozen kids are killed by BB guns. Many more are seriously injured. The FBI uses them as training weapons in some instances. Now, are they as dangerous as a Weatherby Mark V? No. But that doesn't diminish the fact that they are still weapons that can -- and do -- kill people.

But they aren't technically firearms. Just as the Superpacks aren't considered gambling under the law.

However, that is playing semantics to score points, using political and corporate verbiage that's been negotiated and compromised.

I also want to repeat the part that you snipped in order to bolster your mockery of my point:
...nevertheless, it doesn't change what the things ARE.

As I said earlier, they're going to make a ton of money using this gambit. And that income will more than offset the bad feelings generated by some people who are turned off by practices such as these and stop paying for things altogether. These sorts of practices are so endemic to our culture that people hardly even notice them any more. Even when they're pointed out, most people are like you: they just go, "Meh, so what?"

For someone like me, though, I can't see spending anywhere from $10 to $25 on a Superpack to get the items I really want -- the costume -- or even more to get the rare thing such as the wolf. Not when the precedent all these years is that costumes have come for a nominal fee when they weren't free.

I really hope they don't gate the Retro Sci-Fi stuff behind such a pack and just sell it for the usual $5 to $7.50. As I mentioned in one of the poll threads, the Retro Sci-Fi pack is so exciting to me that I will actually re-sub to get it on my many, many characters whose concepts are built around that whole idea. But not if it's in a superpack. Historically I have abysmal luck in getting drops. In all the time since Purple IOs have been in the game, I've gotten fewer than 6. I *never* got one of the cool costume pieces like the rare wings or rocket boots until they significantly altered the drop rate, so I missed out on all the amazing profits made from those things.

So I'm fairly certain that I'd end up being the guy who has to spend $50 to acquire the costume pieces I want.

I would not bet a dollar thatthey wouldn't do just this. This is a costume set people really want. What better time to try to get everyone to buy packs...?

Retro Sci Fi will not be released via Super Packs.

Don't worry, we'll find a way to conspiracy-theory this.

He didn't rule out it being in some other form of random reward packs.

Can I quote you on that? (if they are Zwillinger has to buy everyone in this thread enough super packs to get the whole retro sci-fi pack lol)

It'll be tied to the new "Ultra Rare" option in the incarnate reward table at the end of trials.