Super Packs on the PMarket 2/14/12

Not because I say so, it is because dictionaries the world over say so.

I'm not interested in applying any legal definition of gambling to these packs. Paragon Studios, and likely NCsoft, vetted these with their legal department.

That being said, they are gambling because they fit the term. Calling it anything else is just an abuse of the language.

There is no need, in the dictionary usage, for the item being "won" to have a monetary value. That is a legal definition that doesn't apply to these packs.

Again, it isn't gambling by the legal definition, but it is by the dictionary definition. That is what is called in real life, "close enough".

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Problem is that it's not virtual currency they're asking people to sink.

Indeed! I intend to buy as many packs as I can. The devs need our support more than ever now.

I would argue that, just because I didn't explicitly state that particular point, doesn't mean I've missed it.
I would, on the other hand, also argue that you've missed mine, as nothing you've said there changes it in the slightest.

To compare the super packs to casino gambling is absurd and pure hyperbole.
Yes, they share some traits on a both psychological and mechanical level. But they are completely different degrees of the situation and, in at least a few important details, they are completely separate.

Unfortunately for your rather-amusing rant here.... yeah, its actually gambling. Snow Globe to the side, yeah its gambling.

Look, make whatever internal rationalizations you want to yourself, in order to justify your gaming with chance re this issue. Great. But screaming "ITS NOT GAMBLING!" when it plainly IS gambling, is convincing no one.

Be honest with yourself at least, as you pony up. Me, I will not touch these packs with a ten-foot pole. Somehow I find these packs morally repugnant, and no amount of insulting is going to change my mind.

Enjoy your very expensive hunt for the black wolf, btw Pass.

In the past, I've done all three. I don't anymore.

I fully agree with this.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

LOL! I think I'm starting to realize just how serious some of you people really are about this stuff. What's more amusing though is that this is starting to turn into the argument sketch.

Glad we got that out in the open.

Addiction tends to be serious to most people. I am older, and have more self control now, so I am not worried about me. I do think those who have had gambling addictions in the past should avoid these packs. It is what it is.

Okay baring in mind that I have dropped subscription for all of three or four months since the EU launch of CoV. I'll take you up on that.

I'd like proff that you have bought a second copy of GW2, additionally I'm going to keep checking for proof each month of an additional subscription to the game.

You want to play silly beggers? The games ******* afoot mate.

Well hey, you decided to go there. So I followed you.

I'm not about to walk on eggshells just because someone else has a gambling problem, and they're triggered by any games where random chance is an element. They're all adults and responsible for their own actions. If they need help and want to get it, they should get it.

But it later they want to go around pointing fingers and using "the G word" at everything that even smells of gambling to them, well... I'll continue to be mildly amused at that.

That's true, as I mentioned in the longer post. But for the majority of CoH's existence it was unlike other MMOs in that there was very little randomness involved. This game primarily rewarded steady achievement. There were very few exceptions, such as the HOs you got from Hamidon Raids. It's when really cool things started getting randomly dropped that the game shifted. It's bad enough when those things are merely virtual items such as a rare set of wings or rocket boots, but now it's starting to move into the territory of exchanging real money for random chance.

I think that's the part people are starting to react negatively to.

On the other hand, it's good business practice because it appeals directly to the deepest impulses of a person's psyche. If someone really wants that wolf or all those costume pieces, they have to keep paying. But I'm old-fashioned in the sense that I don't believe that whatever is good for the bottom line is the right thing to do.

How about now? Can you feel the love now? We're all just one big happy family of CoH players. That's what they say about us and this board, right?

rotflmao

Why must we be concerned with what is morally and ethically superior in our entertainment?

Alcohol is seen as a vice by many people. It's a vector for addiction. It can cause brain damage if consumed in large enough quantities, and drunk driving is a very real danger.

Yet somehow 95% of the world manages to survive while imbibing fermented plant juice. It's a relaxant that gives a nice buzz and provides enjoyment when used in moderation. And most people can cope with moderation.

Same with gambling. Same with games. People with addictive personalities latch onto them. They do have the potential to harm, in that a person's mental chemistry may be poorly wired for handling such things. But taken in moderation, they're fun. Most people enjoy them, despite the complete lack of other contribution to society they provide.

And because they're entertainment, they are not necessities. Folks with moral qualms about indulging are free to avoid them. I don't require my entertainment to be a paragon of virtue, merely not so repulsive I can't enjoy it.

I figure that's more than likely the case. If it was just the gambling in general then they would have started complaining ages back when random rolls for things were added. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there were people that complained about them back then, but I don't recall it happening or at least not on the scale of the complaints about these packs.

Of course, to be completely honest I don't think a good chunk of the complaints going on now would be here if it weren't for costume pieces being part of the equation. Note I'm not saying everyone. I'm sure there'd still be plenty of people complaining about being able to spend real money for random in-game rewards if it weren't for the costume pieces, just not as many people.

You are saying there would be no complaints if say your local Mc Donalds, started serving alchol?

Same here. I don't want to spend $30 or $40 just to get this costume. If Marketing wants to make this costume available as a set that I can purchase for $4 or $5, then I would buy it. Otherwise, NO sale.

appart from the costume pieces, there is nothing in the super packs you can't get elsewhwere.

Want the inspirations?

You can buy them.

Want the ATO's?

You can get them through game play.

Exp boosters?

Buy them.

Reward merits?

Run a whole bunch of stuff.

Costume pieces?

Super pack only, and only a chance to get them.

Took me nearly 25 packs for the whole costume set.

Whats so special about this set that its worth almost three times the cost of a regular set?

None whatsoever!

But that's exactly the issue I'm talking about: "a difference of degree rather than of kind."

The Superpack and casino games such as roulette are on the same spectrum of all games of chance. The former may not be as detrimental to one's bottom line as the latter, but that doesn't alter the fact that they are both forms of gambling. They appeal to the exact same parts of the brain and the operate with identical mechanisms: paying money to take a chance on winning something.

I don't think this represents a serious threat to kicking off someone's addiction; I'm just tryin' to lay out some knowledge for you'uns to pick up.

No? I am saying what you quoted me as saying.

Personally, I would not have a problem with the local McD's selling alcohol as long as they were scrupulous in carding minors, just as the local convenience store is. Seriously, why can I walk into the Chevron and pick up a case of Bud but can't get a bottle from the McDonald's that's right next to it? Does that make sense to you?

Also, you are aware that McD's in some countries do serve alcohol, right?

Because you now have all that other stuff, too. Just because you can also *earn* them with *time spent* (and thus, aren't 'free') in the game, doesn't mean they don't also have value. Also, you probably have enough Merits now to craft the PvP:+3% Def IO and sell it for 2 Billion INF.

Most people aren't. I'm not most people.

So does this game card minors?

I'm pretty sure gambling has a minimum age in many countries.