Super Packs on the PMarket 2/14/12
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2012-02-13 18:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Wait. Why convert them? Arent they just normal merits? The kind where with 200 or 250 you can get a miracle or numina?|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Honestly the reward merits, which can be easily converted in Hero Merits/Villain Merits seem to be the most appealing thing in the packs to me.
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How do you/why would you convert them?
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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To buy purples or pvp IOs.
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Wait. Why convert them? Arent they just normal merits? The kind where with 200 or 250 you can get a miracle or numina?
How do you/why would you convert them? Lewis |
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Also, because it costs over 200 merits to buy a LotG or Miracle, but if you convert them first, it only costs 100 merits (+40 million inf).
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
To buy purples or pvp IOs.
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Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
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Not to quibble too much, because I sympathize with your position on these things (even if I don't really have much problem with them myself), but you're playing this game because you enjoy the game and not because some other game chooses to run their store a particular way. Even if you personally decide to quit playing over something like this (and I respectfully doubt that would happen), most players would just shrug it off and go on killing their bags of hit points.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
And if we wanted to play those other MMOs with grab bags, mystery crates, etc., etc., we wouldn't be here on CoH. (For my part, I've been playing CoH a lot less since the Super Packs were announced, coincidentally or not.) And although Paragon Points are technically virtual currency, we're still paying real money to get them.
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I made a point of calling it a virtual currency sink because that's what it is. The reality of the F2P model is that all of these companies are not really in the content design business. They are really in the business of selling their virtual currency. That's all. This was brought really home to me as SOE began transforming itself from an umbrella of subscription games into an umbrella of F2P games.
The game studio makes its money when you buy its currency (putting VIP subs aside). If you, as a consumer, would be content with just buying and stockpiling paragon points, then they'd be super happy and they'd never feel a need to ever put out any actual content.
However; at a certain point the player is satisfied and won't purchase any more currency. At this point, the game studio needs to provide a stream of content that entices the player to dispose of her virtual currency and so feel a need to purchase more.
This is the same problem that game designers have always faced with balancing the economies inside of their games. For greatest player satisfaction, you have to provide a stream of currency and goods, but you also have to provide a currency sink that drains some or most of that currency back out of the game or risk devaluing the currency entirely. The difference is that now they're doing it with real dollars/euros/etc... instead of imaginary currency.
I think it's sort of an elegant problem - apply game design skills to creating a real-life interface to a game economy.
Anyway, the fact that you're paying dollars for the currency is beside the point, though I realize that the point you were really making is that you find random chance-based acquisition distasteful enough that you won't invest dollars into it.
As I said, I sympathize with your feelings on the matter, but I think we're going to find that it's a successful currency sink for paragon points and as such, we'll see more of the super packs down the road. The fact that some significant portion of the extant paragon points are completely imaginary (those being the VIP allowance) just makes an effective currency sink even more necessary.
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Is 100 merits + 40 mil the cost to make 2 hero merits?|
Originally Posted by Mazey
Also, because it costs over 200 merits to buy a LotG or Miracle, but if you convert them first, it only costs 100 merits (+40 million inf).
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Anyway, I am flat broke (in game) so I cant afford the 20 or 40 mil per. If I get merits, I will have to use them straight up.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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My only contention with your point is this, Define long time. My guess is that its a specific time set up when they think they will get their majority of buyers both impulse buys and people determined to get the sets so they keep buying is probably around 3 months, about one quarter and then they will go for the group they could not get with supers and put them on sale. Is 3 months a long time? depends on perspective, at my elderly state, time goes pretty quickly, and given the quality of other packs that is out I can get by for a few months.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Reading between the lines, that says an alternative isn't going to be coming for a long time, if ever.
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As i see it, my complaints are registered, and my lack of purchases are kind of where i have pitched my tent, so i cant really buy them now, but between the imperial dynasty stuff and the additions to the old stuff that dink announced, I should be ok. If its a longer time than that, i'll concede my point, but i find a lot of financial decisions happen in quarters, and my intuition is that this will as well.
If you ever played Magic, maybe you'd remember that feeling of anticipation while opening a whole bunch of booster packs you just purchased. Maybe you were lucky enough to feel the rush of excitement when you finally got that Black Lotus or Mox Jet after opening so many and just finding a lousy Island. This is just like that.
And no, that's not gambling. I don't know why so many people are saying that it is. They are simply wrong. If it was gambling, then these Super Packs would give you a chance of winning 100 store points, or 1,000, or the grand prize of 1,000,000. Or maybe you'd have a chance of winning extra hours, days or months of VIP access. If it was really gambling, then it'd give you a chance of winning actual money, credited to your PayPal account or whatever.
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I never played magic, but I did play the L5R CCG. I have to disagree, it is like gambling. You are spending money, for the chance of a favorable outcome. Meh, I still liked it, but it is also why I stopped playing CCGs and Hero Clix games. This is no where near as bad as those.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
If you ever played Magic, maybe you'd remember that feeling of anticipation while opening a whole bunch of booster packs you just purchased. Maybe you were lucky enough to feel the rush of excitement when you finally got that Black Lotus or Mox Jet after opening so many and just finding a lousy Island. This is just like that.
And no, that's not gambling. I don't know why so many people are saying that it is. They are simply wrong. If it was gambling, then these Super Packs would give you a chance of winning 100 store points, or 1,000, or the grand prize of 1,000,000. Or maybe you'd have a chance of winning extra hours, days or months of VIP access. If it was really gambling, then it'd give you a chance of winning actual money, credited to your PayPal account or whatever. |
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RIP Elemental Order costume set, you would have been so fun to play with.
But $35 is not worth your purchase. Sure...I might get 'lucky' and get it for $10, but when planning a budget, you have to prepare for the worst case scenario. Heck, it could cost even more than $35.
Also of note: It is called Super Pack #1, which means there will be many more costume sets deemed 'exclusive' and stuck into them. So, if you're only a costume enthusiast and not into ATOs and/or random silly inspirations/temp revive powers, they've found a way to sell us a super expensive variably priced costume set.
Drop the exclusive additions to the packs, and they become a wonderfully cheap grab bag for those interested in all they contain. As is, they, for many, become a way to charge an overinflated price for those seeking the costume set.
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because there will be an initial push by the MUST BUY people and that will trickle off, so eventually it will bring them more money in to put some other desireable item in to get the must buys back in, and sell the set outright because they will see the extra revenue from stubborns like me who wont buy one. It happens all the time, the recent popular game "Skylanders" had 2 exclusive characters to 2 retailers. they sold like hotcakes but then, they released them toa ll retailers after an exclusive window so that they coudl get the cash from people who could not get them at the retailers (of course, all of the figs are selling well, but i know the exclusive figs REALLY sold well, particularly the target exclusive one) so basically, a lot fo think it will happen because it has happend so often, exclusives are almost always a timed exclusives these days. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
But where does that confidence arise from? What's the business incentive for Paragon Studios to ungate the costume pieces when they can profit from players shelling out 11,000 Points to get them?
For the present, Zwillinger has said only that they don't have plans to offer a secondary option for purchasing the Super Pack-exclusive costumes in "the immediate future". That's not even "soon™". |
And plus , lets be frank, how often has paragon listened and gone to bat for us and listened to our feedback over the recent past? My strong suspicion is that the packs thing is ncsoft exerting itsself and paragon wanting to respond to our feedback, so the timed exclusive idea seems the most reasonable comprimise.
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I've played CCGs for fun, and I've played Poker, Blackjack and slot machines in casinos for money. It is not the same experience.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I never played magic, but I did play the L5R CCG. I have to disagree, it is like gambling. You are spending money, for the chance of a favorable outcome. Meh, I still liked it, but it is also why I stopped playing CCGs and Hero Clix games. This is no where near as bad as those.
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I once played a game of Poker with a bunch of friends where the ante was all Uncommon and Rare Magic cards. Then we made decks out of those cards and played a game of Magic. That was... interesting!
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Oh my gods, are we teaching our children to gamble? Moral panic and outrage!
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
the recent popular game "Skylanders" had 2 exclusive characters to 2 retailers. they sold like hotcakes but then, they released them toa ll retailers after an exclusive window so that they coudl get the cash from people who could not get them at the retailers (of course, all of the figs are selling well, but i know the exclusive figs REALLY sold well, particularly the target exclusive one) so basically, a lot fo think it will happen because it has happend so often, exclusives are almost always a timed exclusives these days.
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Eh. Merits made up the bulk of what I got in my six packs... I just used them to help buy Kestrel's ATO proc from the vendor, since I didn't get it from the packs directly.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Wait. Why convert them? Arent they just normal merits? The kind where with 200 or 250 you can get a miracle or numina?
How do you/why would you convert them? Lewis |
I can see converting them because you wanted something only available with A-Merits, though.
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I think it would boil down to the individual's psychological make up. Poker, Blackjack, and slot machines do nothing for me. However getting cool cards or figures was a huge rush to me. I once spent a grand on L5R cards on pay day, Hero Clix was about as bad. That was when I realized I had an issue. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I've played CCGs for fun, and I've played Poker, Blackjack and slot machines in casinos for money. It is not the same experience.
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With these there is nothing really there to pull me into that kind of behavior. They are fun, but the costumes are easy to get, and the ATIOs are easy to com by too. I have all I need of each, so I have no real reason the continue to buy these packs.
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As this is called Super Pack #1, I think it's more likely that their first move will be to just release a series of super packs, with a new costume set for each series.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
because there will be an initial push by the MUST BUY people and that will trickle off, so eventually it will bring them more money in to put some other desireable item in to get the must buys back in, and sell the set outright because they will see the extra revenue from stubborns like me who wont buy one.
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@Golden Girl
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To my mind there are only 2 things the packs have that make them a bad idea because there is no determinative nor alternative means for people to get them.
The costumes and the wolf pet.
I do not care about either of them and won't be chasing them. I sympathize with the people who want either of them being felt forced to get packs and chase after them. Sure, it's their choice but it still seems unfair/unkind to do this to them.
I can get an ATO with merits or from the auction house.
I will eventually be able to get the enhancement catalysts as drops.
I can buy enhancement boosters and unslotters and inspirations and I think all the powers from the Paragon Market if I want them.
But for the people who really want the wolf? I would hate to be them.
People who want the costume? Not as bad but still who knows how many packs they are going to have to buy to get the full set.
If I were NC I'd make a way for them to just buy them in the market or earn them in game.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I have no problem with that. I am not sure I will buy as many of them as I did this one (I mostly wanted the ATIOs), but I am sure I will purchase some of them.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
As this is called Super Pack #1, I think it's more likely that their first move will be to just release a series of super packs, with a new costume set for each series.
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You're not required to keep buying super packs until you get the entire costume. |
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
But $35 is not worth your purchase. Sure...I might get 'lucky' and get it for $10, but when planning a budget, you have to prepare for the worst case scenario. Heck, it could cost even more than $35.
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You could budget $10, and then stop regardless of if you got the entire costume set or not, and then only buy more packs when you have another $10 available in your budget.
That way, the "worst case scenario" is spending $10 when you have it to spare anyway.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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My point there is that the rush you get from getting a rare or very rare collectible item from a game is different from, say, the rush you get from winning $1,000. |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think it would boil down to the individual's psychological make up. Poker, Blackjack, and slot machines do nothing for me. However getting cool cards or figures was a huge rush to me. I once spent a grand on L5R cards on pay day, Hero Clix was about as bad. That was when I realized I had an issue.
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| With these there is nothing really there to pull me into that kind of behavior. They are fun, but the costumes are easy to get, and the ATIOs are easy to com by too. I have all I need of each, so I have no real reason the continue to buy these packs. |
*(Actually, I never played Roulette, lol)
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No, my point was about how exclusives are generally timed. you can see which figure you are buying so no gambling at all there. Its just that they were 3 month exclusives and now they are available everywhere as a secondary push to wring more profit from older content. though in this case all the figs are still selling, making the need to drop exclusivity to retain sales slightly less pressing.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Oh my gods, are we teaching our children to gamble? Moral panic and outrage!
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Yes. |
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Is 100 merits + 40 mil the cost to make 2 hero merits?
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50 merits + 20 mil inf per Hero/Villain merit.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
Does it look like a duck? Pay money for a random chance at something you want.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I have nothing to say about this, as it's your decision afterall. I intend to get some of these boosters because I think it's a neat idea. I'm just saying that people who are calling this gambling are being quite silly. Go put down your entire paycheck double 0* and then come back and tell me if you think these cute little boosters are anything like gambling.
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Does it quack like a duck? You might not get what you want.
Odds are, it is a duck: It fits the definition of gambling, so I don't see the need to avoid the term.
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gamble [gam-buhl] verb, -bled, -bling, noun
verb (used without object)
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.
verb (used with object)
3. to lose or squander by betting (usually followed by away ): He gambled all his hard-earned money away in one night.
4. to wager or risk (money or something else of value): to gamble one's freedom.
5. to take a chance on; venture; risk: I'm gambling that our new store will be a success.
noun
6. any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty.
7. a venture in a game of chance for stakes, especially for high stakes.
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As to the size of the bet: Super Packs are $1, as such they are comparable to pull-tabs. Both are gambling, just one is for money with the other being for virtual goods.
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Oh good, lets have another discussion on what the definition of gambling is.
Because, ya know, that's somehow relevant...
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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How very pedantic, engaging in a semantic argument like that. And then topping it off with a meme designed to short circuit any semblance of rational discourse or thought. How underhanded of you. Er, I mean clever. Yeah, it's clever. Golf clap.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Does it look like a duck? Pay money for a random chance at something you want.
Does it quack like a duck? You might not get what you want. Odds are, it is a duck: It fits the definition of gambling, so I don't see the need to avoid the term. |
I might as well cut to the chase.
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noun 6. any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty. 7. a venture in a game of chance for stakes, especially for high stakes. |
I daresay that living in the universe is a "gamble" for each and every unit of time you exist in it. Looks like everything is a gamble, hmm? I guess the universe is just one great big duck then, eh?
Quack!
You will then have a free costume set. Gratz!
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters