The Well, Praetoria, and Incarnates; Problems with Writing?

Okay...this constantly comes up in any thread involving these three, with folks like Eva and Venture tearing into the writing.

However, I've pretty much never been able to get a concrete reason or explanation for this unbridled hatred of this particular set of stories. I mean honestly, what are these "plot holes" that supposedly exist or are created by this content?

They're not really problems - they're just stories that not everyone likes - kinda like all stories

Venture fancies himself a writer. Don't know what Eva's issue is.

Me, I'm more "Meh" on the whole story. Seems like a means to an end to me, regardless of how "epic" it's being portrayed.

One thing that bothers me about the whole deal, though, is wrapping Incarnates up with the Praetorians in the first place. The initial explanation is that the Well is drawn to power and the willingness to use it... But the Underground Trial shows that (SPOILER ALERT!) Emperor Cole WASN'T willing to use his power... And he had EVERY reason to want to rain some righteous, furious lightning on the rampaging Hamidon. But he didn't. So the story of "willingness to use..." is a little sketchy.

Unless, of course, the plan was always to invade Primal Earth and take over. Everybody else in Praetoria seems to think it's just an ideology conflict (them wanting to bring order to us, us wanting to bring freedom to them), but let's face it. Praetoria is a world that's soon to become FAR too chaotic for its human population. People's lives are in danger now, and they need somewhere to flee...

Oh look! A dimension that HASN'T been destroyed by a rampaging goo beast...

Good question. This is my own take on it - others will have their own contribution to make but I wanna be clear I'm not speaking for anyone else here.

The big issue with the Incarnate system stems from the fact that the power we get is somehow given to us from the Well. We didn't make a better power suit, learn to punch harder or become physically stronger or anything like that - we just happened to get the attention of some hole in the ground and it deems us worthy.

That, right there, emasculates our characters. It's not about us any more, it's about the Well and the hubris of the Dev writers who are telling their own story instead of allowing us to be the centre of our stories.

There are other huge issues about the Incarnate story, but that's the root cause for me. We're no longer autonomous within the context of the game, we're puppets.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

I always have issues with stories that raise the powerlevel to eleventy bazillion with semi-omniscient beings, because you have to have those characters still act like a person with relatively average or slightly over average intellect in order to keep some kind of connection with your readerbase.

As far as I'm concerned, any thousand years old entity acting like some mildly educated thirty something *is* a plot hole.

Really, I was content when the 'Well of Furies' was just another name for the 'Cosmic Power' that enables the CoH-verse to have super powers, alt dimensions, aliens and gods and the like. That was fine. It was just a name for 'That which empowers' and was as much problem as breathing; without it, no CoH.

BUT. And it's a big but; turning that enabling power into a semi-sentient and above all stupid thing? Now we have a problem. More so when it is made canon that, rather than simply it being an enabler, the switch that turns on super powers so to speak, ANYONE with powers is, in fact, drawing directly on the well. Or at least thus says canon and the canon Devs.

So, no, you aren't someone who's one-ness with the self has transcended human limits and become an uber-natural fighter. You haven't broken some of the laws of science and created incredibly powerful technology or scientific effects. You have not become a master of magic and been able to tame at least a fraction of its raw power, or find even more power within your mutations.
Nope, it is all in fact thanks to the Well. It has deemed you worthy to have the power, and ONLY through that are you 'allowed' to be more powerful.

I find that such [Pancake]. Now, had the 'Well' been Primal Earth's link to the 'Enabler of Power', something that let you tap into what amounts to a universal power source, that would have been fine. That power you found/took would allow you to do even more incredible things with your powers. But apparently that's not on, you HAVE to be *empowered* by this semi-sentient puddle, and pumped up with 'Well juice'. It just...it's clunky, it's awkward, and it runs roughshod over player characters. Why, when so many of the recent arcs give players more freedom than ever before, is the core part of the story doing the complete opposite? It's like the head writers were schizophrenic or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

This is something I wrote that deals with this issue. I hope you take it in the spirit of intent, rather than some sense of self-aggrandizement but this is about the only way I've managed to make the Well work for me.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=281281

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

The problems/weaknesses of the story would be much more forgivable if the story itself hadn't dragged on for so long. Players are fatigued. Praetoria as a starter zone, the apex and tin mage tf, and possibly a Tyrant TF, are all that should have been done Praetoria-wise. Forcing it into incarnate lore, alignment switching, First Ward, and now Dark Astoria (which is beyond rediculous) doesn't really add anything to the meta-story of the game.

As for the Well of the Furies? Well...you know something is a bad idea storywise when the majority of the games roleplayers ignore it.

Scarlet Shocker covered much of it. The other problem with the well is that it is sentient and insane and capable of possessing people who draw from it, but we stick our heads in it anyway because some chick who refuses to tell us anything about herself says it'll be ok. It makes bad decisions but as soon as we take power from it, we become beholden to it. It's like we're working for the Dilbert boss.

The problem with Praetoria is that It. Never. Ends. It's not nearly as cool as the devs think it is, and a lot of people are just sick of the place.

Techbot Alpha, Scarlet Shocker and Eva Destruction have covered the ground very well. I have covered the ground enough in other places as well. The Sentient, Insane, All-Powerful and Giver of All Powers Well of Furies poses many different objections to me.

The question becomes at what point are you unwilling to hand-wave things away. Where do you draw the line and refuse to proceed?

There are some folks who would not mind having to "officially" do even something utterly appalling in-game if they still got to beat things up; they would say that this is a silly fantasy game with no bearing on real life, it never happened as far as they are concerned and that they choose to ignore it. For them, it is all Much Ado About Nothing.

For others, like myself, the Well introduces one or more lines that we feel should not be ever crossed, even while "pretending," even though this is NOT real life, etc.

It is really like asking someone their favorite color. If they say, "Blue," how can you come back and say, "WRONG! Your favorite color is Yellow, pal!"

Your answer to whether the Well is a Bridge Too Far will be the right one for you, and it has no effect on Real Life people, so carry on. I do not look on those going up the Incarnate system as "such and suches" because they do; I just am going no further myself and hoping that the non-Incarnate material stays entertaining enough to keep me here.