The things you "hate" about I Trials!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-01-06 11:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
To be more constructive:
I think it's annoying that when you're collecting temp powers, you get a different clicky for each power you collect. It would be MUCH easier if they would stack in your "temp" inventory (so that you would have, say, Pacification Grenade: 3 Uses Remaining).
This is a minor issue when a bunch of people hand me temps on a Lambda, but very annoying on the Underground when there are a massive number of lichens to collect. Instead of constantly having to make room on your tray for lichens, you could have one button and set it to autofire when you actually get to the fight.
I understand and appreciate that the trial mechanics are set up so that each archetype has something they can contribute. However I think they've gone a little bit overboard with emphasizing taunting in general.
Quote:
They haven't said that there won't be any new currencies in the future - the latest from Positron is this:|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
I thought that it was stated outright, during a player summit or ustream thingy or whateverthehell, that the next set of Icarnate slots would not introduce any new currencies. If so, then yes, a lot of folks will be tier 3 or tier 4 almost immediately (once they've acquired the iXP to unlock the slots). I think the expectation is that the new slots will require a lot of iXP, maybe an order of magnitude more than the existing slots, so as to encourage runs through the newest trials which will provide commensurately more iXP. Folks trying to farm BAF for the new slots will probably find it to be an excruciatingly slow grind.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Positron
As we move into the future, if we dont see the needle move upwards on experienced Incarnates completing Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM to numbers comparable to BAF and Lambda then we will have to start looking at other options for the trials that come after that. Will it be a new currency? Id love for it NOT to come to that, but youve made it clear that you want to keep getting all the old currency out of the older content.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
The needle has moved up for sure. I just hope its enough to meet the devs idea of enough so they don't go all punitive with the rewards from the older trials. Having said that, they most likely will end up making those other new currencies active when the slots open.
|
Originally Posted by Positron As we move into the future, if we dont see the needle move upwards on experienced Incarnates completing Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM to numbers comparable to BAF and Lambda then we will have to start looking at other options for the trials that come after that. Will it be a new currency? Id love for it NOT to come to that, but youve made it clear that you want to keep getting all the old currency out of the older content. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
VIP here, mostly due to not having the permanent IO license yet and DA being the big decider. The ones working one the "endgame" are not good and easily enamored with out of date mechanics and design philosophies. If this was the age of the 3/4 overhead sprite mmo and eternal crack they'd be cutting edge and appropriate. Now, not so much.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
All VIPs think that Paragon Studios are good game developers
 |
CoH could do what they did for all those years because there wasn't an endgame. Now there is, and it is half-baked at best. Endgames are a go big or go home deal.
Quote:
Based on the new Spring Fling event that's on beta, that tech seems to exist. I would love greatly to see it folded into the Lambda and Keyes trials.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
To be more constructive:
I think it's annoying that when you're collecting temp powers, you get a different clicky for each power you collect. It would be MUCH easier if they would stack in your "temp" inventory (so that you would have, say, Pacification Grenade: 3 Uses Remaining). |
I forgot about the whole temp power mess, but it is something I very much dislike about some of the current trials. It's not specifically restricted to them, but it does show up pretty severely in some of them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
But if they go too big, that would remove the casual style of the Trials.
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Endgames are a go big or go home deal.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
The Trials aren't what I would call "casual".
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But if they go too big, that would remove the casual style of the Trials.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Perhaps not by your own standard, but compared to the raids of most games, they are incredibly casual.
|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
The Trials aren't what I would call "casual".
|
Quote:
Compared to the sun a bonfire is cool, but I still wouldn't want to stick my hand in it.
|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Perhaps not by your own standard, but compared to the raids of most games, they are incredibly casual.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Yes, but if you want to use that analogy, there would be a large fraction of the population living on the sun and enjoying it.
|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Compared to the sun a bonfire is cool, but I still wouldn't want to stick my hand in it.
|
Quote:
I have no access to their data, but just to play devil's advocate for a moment, it could be the case that the devs won't be shocked at all by the number of people who could unlock and hit tier 4 on the new slots right away. Either because they have a good sense of just how many hardcore trial runners there are on each server, or because the number is actually pretty small relative to the overall player population.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
If I converted all of those to threads when the new powers arrive, not counting any threads I already have, I'd have 1040 to spend on Ixp and potentially any salvage I stilll need. That's seven times more than what I needed to open up the powers I now. Now I have 21 incarnate characters and not all of them have any where near that much saved up but some do. I just think the dev team is going to be a little shocked at how quickly a LOT of players that run trials daily are running around with 7, 9 or whatever powers all at t3 or higher because they are waiting so long to release.
I can think of at least 4 or 5 of mine that will be that way.  |
Ultimately I don't see why the devs should care how long it takes anyone to get what they want out of the game. They are allowing people to play for free now, so extracting every possible subscription dollar out of the player base can no longer be a practical goal anymore.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Quote:
I don't think that follows, for a couple of reasons.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Ultimately I don't see why the devs should care how long it takes anyone to get what they want out of the game. They are allowing people to play for free now, so extracting every possible subscription dollar out of the player base can no longer be a practical goal anymore.
|
First, they are still VIP focused. Nearly everything they do with free players tries to coerce them to upgrade to VIP because it's better. At the top end, where you have premium players who have all the VIP benefits through having paid enough (which, for most people will mean having subscribed long enough), they explicitly hold out the iTrials as a VIP-only experience. So if there is any content they want to wring subscriber dollars out of, it has to be the Incarnate end game - there simply is nothing else.
Second, and I think more fundamentally, the devs still need people to be interested in playing the game in order to get them to buy doodads of any sort, be they consumables or full subscriptions. The MMO industry is, by and large, focused on goals as how you maintain that interest. Cynical people call those goals "time sinks". You need to give people a reason to stick around, some shiny to reach for, in order for them to stick around. At least so the prevailing wisdom seems to indicate. And you need them to stick around in order to buy anything.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Hogwash, analogies are rarely 100% analogous. And this one doesn't have to be to make its point, which is that the temperature of the bonfire relative to the sun is irrelevant to its temperature relative to my hand, the latter being the most important as far as my hand's location is concerned.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Yes, but if you want to use that analogy, there would be a large fraction of the population living on the sun and enjoying it.
|
Also, there may be a lot of people living on the sun. I've never been there, myself.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Since Itrials/incarnate powers are the only thing keeping me a VIP a new currency because the Devs don't see people running their other trials as much would definitely cause me to simply unsub. I love running all the trials except UG/Keyes, but the majority of the trials I run are BAF/LAM for convenience; as they are the more popular ones ran more often.
To answer the OPs original question... I dislike Keyes/UG because they feel way too gimmicky to me and basically make my t4's +3 toon feel like a lvl 2 toon. I dislike those trials because they are the ones I have been on that have failed the most. I dislike those trials because they are the ones that tend to cause the most confusion among players. Running around aimlessly in the UG/Keyes is not how I want to spend my limited game time 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
Casual? Especially in casual-stock-standard-enhancements-are-all-that-you-need(ed) CoH?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But if they go too big, that would remove the casual style of the Trials.
|
Anyways, since the rest of the post was about devs the go big or go home was directed at them. You don't do a good endgame on a shoestring budget or a skeleton crew. You've got the snowstorm's budget and manpower or you shouldn't do one at all.
Quote:
This is what *I* dislike about I-trials, please don't threaten me or force me to play content that I do not find enjoyable. If certain people would rather run a Lambda or a BAF rather than a MoM or a TPN that should be their choice.
Originally Posted by Positron  As we move into the future, if we dont see the needle move upwards on experienced Incarnates completing Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM to numbers comparable to BAF and Lambda then we will have to start looking at other options for the trials that come after that. Will it be a new currency? Id love for it NOT to come to that, but youve made it clear that you want to keep getting all the old currency out of the older content. |
To do this would be akin to saying "ok you guys run a lot of ITFs but not too many Dr. Q's so we are going to give less and less rewards for ITFing unless you guys start running more Dr. Q's."
Quote:
They're not - that's why we're getting such a steady flow of new Trials - they're devoting a lot of time and resources to them.
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
You don't do a good endgame on a shoestring budget or a skeleton crew.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
That is too funny a statement. Casual style is how I play the game and, honey, none of y'all or your trials come anywhere close to being 'casual'.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But if they go too big, that would remove the casual style of the Trials.
|
Quote:
Anything that a PUG has a good chance of succeeding on = casual.
|
Originally Posted by Fritzy
That is too funny a statement. Casual style is how I play the game and, honey, none of y'all or your trials come anywhere close to being 'casual'.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
The developers are badly, badly mistaken if they think applying the stick is going to get me to run this stuff. If anything, it will have the opposite effect. | This is what *I* dislike about I-trials, please don't threaten me or force me to play content that I do not find enjoyable. If certain people would rather run a Lambda or a BAF rather than a MoM or a TPN that should be their choice. |
From what I understand so far, I am not really interested in running Omega content anyways, so if they want to kill this golden goose completely dead, I'll get over it. I have no emotional investment in it. Although I do find the idea of striving for months or possibly years on a system - MA comes to mind - only to almost instantly turn people off to the concept, pretty LOL-tastic.
Give the people what they want, and this won't be an issue.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Ultimately I don't see why the devs should care how long it takes anyone to get what they want out of the game.
|
Frankly, this is where devs ALWAYS get themselves into trouble with the wider player base. Trying to control to tightly the direction and pace of player achievements is a loser for devs.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
A team carefully constructed over 20+ minutes is something more than a PUG.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Anything that a PUG has a good chance of succeeding on = casual.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
This is what *I* dislike about I-trials, please don't threaten me or force me to play content that I do not find enjoyable. If certain people would rather run a Lambda or a BAF rather than a MoM or a TPN that should be their choice.
To do this would be akin to saying "ok you guys run a lot of ITFs but not too many Dr. Q's so we are going to give less and less rewards for ITFing unless you guys start running more Dr. Q's." |
Yes, this is exactly what he is saying. You see this is what I am talking about when I say devs doing this ALWAYS run themselves into the wall with this approach. I have said it before and you repeated it, if I want to run BAF's only BAF's all day everyday I am playing the game, NO dev "should" have ANY issue with it. I paid my 15 quid now leave me the fugg alone.
Get your stinky devs paws off/out of my personal playing experience. TYVM.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
You're redefining a term here, then. PUG means Pick-Up Group, and in every context I have ever seen it used, a group of people who are mostly strangers to each other is a PUG.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
A team carefully constructed over 20+ minutes is something more than a PUG.
|
On the other hand, if the server has a core group of trial-runners, they are no longer strangers to each other, and then the groups PUG-ness becomes much less certain.
I'm just speaking for those "RPers" that like showing off their many many many temp powers if they made it like salvage window they can expand it out to where it DON'T have to scroll and have the salvage thing where you can sort them out by name, how many times you can use them left, if they We're part of missions or if they were made from recipes,etc