The things you "hate" about I Trials!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-01-06 11:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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hm, that sounds promising.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
There are 6 story arcs in DA - at the end of each arc, you get a reward table to choose from - one of the rewards is for 10 Threads, and another option is to choose a random Incarnate component as well.
If the RNG hates you, you could play through the whole DA story and end up with 6 commons - but if it loves you, you could end up with 6 very rares. |
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
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It's based on the Trial reward mechanics - a random component at the end of the story - only the DA arcs don't have the bonus potential of the in-Trial badge objectives, or the flood of Empyreans and Astrals, and the IXP on them is quite low, and the Thread drop rate is nowhere near the stream of Threads we get on the Trials.|
Originally Posted by MisterMagpie
hm, that sounds promising.
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To get all the slots open and the level shifts, there will be quite a lot of "grinding".
The repeatable missons give a reward of 2 Threads at the end, and about 1% IXP per mission, so for a fresh 50, it'll take some time to get all the stuff they might want.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No purpose is better than a ham-fisted story written around the mechanics that causes /facepalm at every turn, IMO. Things like the mothership, paper missions, and all the zone repeatable missions are repeatable only because they are pretty insignificant story-wise. It's a limitation of repeatable content. Hami is, in a way, just as bad in the long run. We've been farming that guy for years and nobody has made any progress on figuring out how to put him down for good? Nobody has even tried?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
See, I don't think the Mothership raids are that great an example. I find them a fun, but story-wise hollow experience. Don't get me wrong, I don't get any great satisfaction from the embedded story in iTrials, and the cutscenes got old fast, but I don't feel that things like the RWZ are any great shakes just because they're vaguely explainable. I don't ever feel like I'm accomplishing anything fighting the Rikti. I know they'll be back as soon as the shields come up. The raid is just an excuse to earn VMerits. Sure, it's fun, but for me, its (lack of) story has zero to do with that.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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He is the goose that lays the golden hami-os.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Hami is, in a way, just as bad in the long run. We've been farming that guy for years and nobody has made any progress on figuring out how to put him down for good? Nobody has even tried?
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Alternately: A jello salad like that you don't eat all at once.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
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So what I'm getting here is that there are no ideal solutions. It's a matter of "pick your poison". Some people hate having a story that it doesn't make sense to repeat, some people hate having content that is effectively detached from progressing a story.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
No purpose is better than a ham-fisted story written around the mechanics that causes /facepalm at every turn, IMO. Things like the mothership, paper missions, and all the zone repeatable missions are repeatable only because they are pretty insignificant story-wise. It's a limitation of repeatable content. Hami is, in a way, just as bad in the long run. We've been farming that guy for years and nobody has made any progress on figuring out how to put him down for good? Nobody has even tried?
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There's room for both, but I don't think anyone is going to get something they'll think is great, because most MMOs are fundamentally about repeating content on some scale or other.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
6 arcs for DA could be great, or it could be rubbish. It depends how many missions are in those arcs and what sort of missions they are. Is DA up on Beta yet?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Since yesterday - that's why there's all this new info |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
6 arcs for DA could be great, or it could be rubbish. It depends how many missions are in those arcs and what sort of missions they are. Is DA up on Beta yet?
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There are about 5-6 missions per arc, so the arcs will need to be repeated a few times to get all the major Incarnate stuff like level shifts.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Only in the present, limited conception/implementation of MMO mission content delivery. There are potential alternatives, but they would not fit into the existing CoX infrastructure, so talking about them (in detail) would be fruitless. But it needs to be said that there are possible ways of delivering virtually unlimited content which impacts the game world in a persistent way and is all part of a greater storyline in which everything that players do matters. The overall design structure for it covers my whiteboard...
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
There's room for both, but I don't think anyone is going to get something they'll think is great, because most MMOs are fundamentally about repeating content on some scale or other.
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NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
5-6 missions per arc is not particularly good IMO. I'll get Betaup to check them out and give feedback, but if they're full of 'interesting' mechanics and contact conversations etc a la FW then pfff.
I take it you've already played through all the DA content then, GG? How long did it take you?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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The arcs took about an hour each, but that was reading every little clue and chatting in the beta testers channel, so they could go faster |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
5-6 missions per arc is not particularly good IMO. I'll get Betaup to check them out and give feedback, but if they're full of 'interesting' mechanics and contact conversations etc a la FW then pfff.
I take it you've already played through all the DA content then, GG? How long did it take you? |
I did the whole story line in one long session, but the RNG didn't like me, so by the end I had 5 commons and 1 uncommon
But that's only for the first play through - repeating the arcs works like the SSAs - so on all the other play throughs, you only get the chance for one random component every 20 hours, even if you play all 6 arcs.
The best method for soloing seems to be to play the whole storyline through once, then start playing 3 arcs per day - 1 for the random component, 1 for the 10 Thread reward, and 1 for the random Astral or Empyrean reward - with a few of the fast repeatable contact missions to get the 2 Thread reward at the end of them.
Playing the SSAs too will also add more variety tot eh daily routine, and help boost your Incarnate rewards.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I've started playing the DA content on Beta and I'm taking a bit longer than an hour per arc for sure. I'm clearing all though and uaing a 50 with only Alpha slotted to better reflect the likely level of toon.
DA's pretty awesome so far I must say. Some stuff needs tweaking but that's what Beta's for.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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After reaching the final mission of the last arc in DA, i'm highly dubious about GGs estimate of an hour per arc, unless she was stealthing through everything on a t4 incarnate. Which is not really the way I'd like to play through such great storylines.
The new DA is fantastic IMO. Very impressed indeed, overall.
Wether or not it'll be able to replace iTrials for iProgress is still to be discovered.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Quote:
It will - but only for the soloers |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Wether or not it'll be able to replace iTrials for iProgress is still to be discovered.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I am a soloer. Please don't speak for me.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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My guess is it will still be faster to do trials. It will only completely replace trials for those that can't stand to do trials, thats just my guess.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Wether or not it'll be able to replace iTrials for iProgress is still to be discovered.
Eco |
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It's a very correct guess |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
My guess is it will still be faster to do trials. It will only completely replace trials for those that can't stand to do trials, thats just my guess.
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Currently, the solo path uses the same reward system as the SSAs, so the first play through of the 5 DA story arcs lets players pick the same reward choice at the end of each arc, but on all following play throughs, only one type of reward choice can be made every 20 hours - which means that 5 Incarnate components can be earned from the first play through, and then only 1 every 20 hours for all the other play throughs.
The random reward rolls are also the standard tables, so there are no guaranteed rares or very rares like on the tougher Trials.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
As I pointed out in beta, the rewards for DA 2.0 need to bump up higher and if that cause folks to play DA 2.0 more than the I Trials, than that an issue the devs need to look at and understand. Not us, them.
If folks rather go the slow route than run the I trials, then maybe it's time to re read all the feed back you been getting in beta and LIVE and take a step back and look at what is need for the long term growth of the game and bringing in more VIPs in the system.
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The solo rewards will not be bumped up anywhere near the Trial rewards.
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Originally Posted by fallenz
As I pointed out in beta, the rewards for DA 2.0 need to bump up higher and if that cause folks to play DA 2.0 more than the I Trials, than that an issue the devs need to look at and understand. Not us, them.
If folks rather go the slow route than run the I trials, then maybe it's time to re read all the feed back you been getting in beta and LIVE and take a step back and look at what is need for the long term growth of the game and bringing in more VIPs in the system. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I agree that the rewards for the DA content should be in line with the content itself not some other measure of other content. What the DA content reward should be based on its own measure has yet to be determined, but wild speculation on where it will end up is welcomed. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The solo rewards will not be bumped up anywhere near the Trial rewards.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Where in my statement did I say they should at the I trial level of rewards GG? No, what I said was they need to be higher than it is now in Beta so there is meanful growth but at lower rate than trials. And I said said if more folks rather go this route than the trials, then there need to a good look at what need to be done for the growth of the game. Nowhere in my statement I said they need to equal trial rate in rewards. Higher does not mean equal.
I understand the purpose of DA 2.0 but you need to stop understand why DA 2.0 is waited on by some players right now and know there is an issue with the playerbase. Or why are the devs making a big deal about DA 2.0?
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The fear is that if DA provides (any) meaningful growth the iTrials will lose critical mass and be relegated to Shadow Shard TF status, they'll only get done by people that want to do them specifically.|
Originally Posted by fallenz
No, what I said was they need to be higher than it is now in Beta so there is meanful growth but at lower rate than trials. And I said said if more folks rather go this route than the trials, then there need to a good look at what need to be done for the growth of the game.
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GG (and possibly the devs) wants to protect the iTrials at the cost of DA and the non-iTrialers.
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I don't think she wants that at all. We're all aware that the devs will improve DA's rewards. What GG and the devs want is for any improvement to be very gradual. To make sure that any increase is careful marked and monitored. After all, they started low because it's much easier to add more than take away.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
The fear is that if DA provides (any) meaningful growth the iTrials will lose critical mass and be relegated to Shadow Shard TF status, they'll only get done by people that want to do them specifically.
GG (and possibly the devs) wants to protect the iTrials at the cost of DA and the non-iTrialers. |
They don't want to accidentally make a huge leap and wind up in a situation where they have to nerf instead of buff.
The first 2 DA arcs can be stealthed in less than 20 minutes each. Irrespective of that, the max reward rate is currently 1 component per day plus a very low number of threads.
After playing the DA content carefully, my opinion on iProgress is that if this is the only solo iProgress cobtent we ever get, it's too slow. If the devs give us another 3 arcs every issue, however, I'd be happy to go the slower route.
It's the grind that's the problem, not the rate, I think. It took me 2.5 years of playing to get my first 50. I'm in no hurry, as long as there is new stuff for me to do aling the way for most of the route.
If the devs could give us an indication of wether or not their plan includes more solo iContent or is this all they intend to provide, that would I think help a lot.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Quote:
If this is true, I'm a little shocked..... well not really. But still, it's silly if they cap the rewards here, whereas incarnate trials effectively have no reward cap besides lesser emp merits, there is infinite number of reward tables, and the emp merit lockout is simply avoided by running through all the trials and/or switching toons if repeating the trial.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
the max reward rate is currently 1 component per day plus a very low number of threads.
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If the RNG hates you, you could play through the whole DA story and end up with 6 commons - but if it loves you, you could end up with 6 very rares.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork