Why did you post this here instead of in the Archetypes & Powers General Discussion?
As to you question: I have no idea.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Body
Why did you post this here instead of in the Archetypes & Powers General Discussion?
As to you question: I have no idea. |
Er, I am thinking of building a Brute with Energy Melee....
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Anyone that knows the answer to that question is likely under court orders to remain silent. |
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
The reason I am posting is the strange statement they are "looking at Energy Melee" in the issue 22 wiki entry. Anybody actually know what's up?
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Anyone that hazards a guess as to what is coming is providing pure speculation.
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"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
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If true, that Energy/Ice or Energy/Energy Stalker I was planning on making for I22 is looking better and better. I22 Stalker changes+I22 Energy/ changes=oh, yeah!
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I knew as soon as I rerolled my 32 Em/Inv to Fm, that they would change Em.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
My thinking is anything they do to the set has to improve it, because it is so horrid. I actually play very few classes and power types, due to them having to fit into my concepts, which i feel unwilling to leave until I get it right lol. I like Energy Blast, even with its problems and deficiencies. I made a concept Energy/Will Brute, got to around 28. Seriously, the set is just sub par, like really sub par. Like the set holds up all the other sub pars, cause it is beneath them. I'm saying it is sub par. That isn't hyperbole.
The final kicker is the self inflicted wound as the last power in the set. I hear whoever designed that also tried to get the last power in dual pistols to have a 5% chance to shoot yourself in the head 400 times.
Yet Energy Melee fits well with a number of concepts I have. I would love to create a Energy/Invul Brute or Scrapper as a badger I want to start in Feb or Mar. I'm talking over 1,000 badges in less than 3 months type goal. But I may go a different direction since I do not like Energy now obviously and whatever proposed changes they are looking at still need to be Beta hammered out.
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This one screams loudly as a very bad idea. Makes me think someone with power had a baby and nobody on the team wanted to tell them yes your baby is in fact UGLY AS A MO FO!
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
The final kicker is the self inflicted wound as the last power in the set. I hear whoever designed that also tried to get the last power in dual pistols to have a 5% chance to shoot yourself in the head 400 times.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I play an Energy/Energy brute, and truthfully I don't notice the self-damage from ET because I'm a brute. We have things called hit points, lots of them. Besides it hits really hard to compensate.
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They must bring ET to its former glory animation time 1 sec slap of death
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From my lurking in the forums, and my many times in trying to help people I have found one common thread about concepts. There are two kinds of Character Concepts. The ones that are Power driven, with a story behind them. These are usually more flexible, any power combination can be explained one way or another. The other is a story in some one's mind that they try to fit into the game. These usually do not do well. They suffer first because they are not willing to change their concept for better performance. Secondly, no matter how awesome CoH becomes, it will never be able to match the creativity and inspired genius of the mind. Your concept will never be fully revealed in some one else's game.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Yet Energy Melee fits well with a number of concepts I have. I would love to create a Energy/Invul Brute or Scrapper as a badger I want to start in Feb or Mar. I'm talking over 1,000 badges in less than 3 months type goal. But I may go a different direction since I do not like Energy now obviously and whatever proposed changes they are looking at still need to be Beta hammered out. |
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
There is nothing wrong with EM's AOE - it's about the same as most sets with one AOE.
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According to mids, that`s not really the case.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
There is nothing wrong with EM's AOE - it's about the same as most sets with one AOE.
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Energy Melee
Whirling hands, Radius 8
Battle Axe
Whirling Axe, Radius 8
Cleave, Range 10 x 20 degree arc
Pendulum, Range 7 X 180 degree arc
Broadsword
Slice, Range 7 X 130 degree arc
Whirling Sword, Radius 8
Head Splitter, Range 10 x 20 degree arc
Claws
Spin, Radius 8
Eviscerate, Range 7 x 90 degree arc
Shock Wave, Range 30 x 90 degree arc
Dark Melee
Shadow Maul, Range 7 x 45 degree arc
Dark Consumption, Range 10 (long recharge)
Soul Drain, Range 10 (long recharge)
Dual Blades
Typhoon's Edge, Radius 8
Sweeping Strike, Range 7 x 90 degree arc
1KC, Range 7 x 90 degree arc
Electric Melee
Jacob's Ladder, Range 7 x 50 degree arc
Thunder Strike, Range 7
Chain Induction (difficult to categorize)
Lightning Rod, Range 20 (Long recharge, but worth it!)
Fiery Melee
Breath of Fire, Range 15 X 30 degree arc
Fire Sword Circle, Range 10
Spin, Radius 8
Eviscerate, Range 7 x 90 degree arc
Shock Wave Range 30 x 90 degree arc
Katana
See Broadsword
Kinetic Melee
Repulsing Torrent, Range 40 x 45 degree arc
Burst Range 8
Stone Melee
Tremor, Range 15
Street Justice
Sweeping Cross, Range 7 x 50 degree arc
Spinning Strike, Range 7, Radius 6 (Targeted AoE)
Super Strength
Foot Stomp, Range 15
War Mace
Whirling Mace, Range 8
Shatter Range 8 X 45 degree arc
Crowd Control Range 8 X 180 degree arc
Titan Weapons
I HAZ MOAR AOE NAU!
Ahem, Dreadfully sorry, that happens sometimes.
Bottom line, there are two other powersets with a single AoE, both have ranges of 15.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
So. like i said. It is a subpar set. Did I mention it is below other subpar sets? lol. No, thank you for doing the research. I tend to throw up a lot of hyperbole and statements based on "feel" Sometimes i am way off base. But I am somewhat clever and have done a lot of playing in the cities. Usually when i feel something is wrong I have a valid reason. So, Energy Melee is not a good performer. Now, if we only knew what they were planning. I really really want a energy Melee / Willpower or Energy Melee / Invul Brute or Scrapper for i22. The concept is right there for me. Unfortunately the power set is just horrid.
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There are two other sets with only one AoE - three, if we expand the discussion to Tankers and include Martial Arts. Tremor does the same damage as Whirling Hands, for almost exactly the same cost, with the same recharge, but in a larger radius. Foot Stomp is of course amazing. Dragon's Tail has the same radius and recharge and almost the same cost as WH, but does more damage. Plus, all three of those attacks have a high chance of knockdown, instead of a low chance of a mag 2 stun. Foot Stomp and Dragon's Tail also animate faster than WH.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
There is nothing wrong with EM's AOE - it's about the same as most sets with one AOE.
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Dark Melee technically has three AoEs, but two of them can barely be called attacks and the last one is a slow narrow cone, so its AoE overall could be argued to be even worse than EM's. Dark Melee, however, also has stronger single target damage, and heals you instead of damaging you.
People keep knocking Energy Transfer's -HP but you have to remember what exactly the tradeoff is.
Its sacrificing -10% hp but increasing the attack's base damage by approximately 27.6% AND gives you a HUGE endurance discount for the attack.
Energy Melee's ET is 12.6667 BI with the next closest being TF which is 9.889 (Same as KO Blow and Seismac Smash)
It is the single hardest hitting attack in the game outside of an Assassin Strike or a Nova.
Personally, I have played EM before and after the nerfs, I have a Brute that is 50 that is EM/WP. Against higher hitpoint opponents, the set is fine especially considering the amount of stacking you can do with the disorients which will destroy an opponent's defense. People tend to ignore Stun in the set but it can stack really well if you want to disable something.
Another thing to consider too is the set has split damage between Energy and Smashing which is nice when an opponent heavily resists smashing or energy.
The set itself isn't also really lacking in terms of DPS on a single target, however, it is not the top. The set can feel inferior when someone is a heavily AOE orientated set like a SS/Fire but even then the majority of your AOE damage is coming from Rage + Burn + Blazing aura.
My point here is trying to show you guy's how a developer is going to look at it.
It used to not suck and have it's nice niche amongst the other powersets...
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Peas and carrots. One does the damage almost instantly (Seismic Smash), and one takes 3 seconds to apply it (Total Focus). The same idea applies to Energy Transfer versus other powers.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
next closest being TF which is 9.889 (Same as KO Blow and Seismac Smash)
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Seismic Smash is 1.5 cast time, TF is 3.3, and KO blow is 2.2 and ET is 2.67 (Old animation was 1.0). In terms of DPA Seismic Smash =6.59 BI, TF =2.9967 KO blow = 4.495 Brawl, and ET is 4.74419. ET still maintains a 20 second recharge versus KO Blow's 25 second Recharge. However, ET's secondary effect stacks with the rest of the set its quite possible to stack quite a bit of stun really fast. In terms of DPE ET transcends all of the other attacks because its nearly half the endurance cost.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
Peas and carrots. One does the damage almost instantly (Seismic Smash), and one takes 3 seconds to apply it (Total Focus). The same idea applies to Energy Transfer versus other powers.
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Animation times were not used to balance powersets in the old days, there was a formula (Which is still used today) that was used to balance them. Arcanaville knows it I believe so maybe she can post that formula but its basically a combination of recharge + damage scale + endurance.
The old ET was way out of line with the balancing formula. In fact, Castle brought it up to Geko (Which was the old powers developer WAY back when) way back in the day but Geko did not change it.
It still breaks that balancing formula although to balance it breaking that they altered the recharge.
In present time, the developers now factor in animation times when creating new sets. The old sets were "grandfathered" in sort to speak.
Castle nerfed EM because its single target damage due to ET was way out of line and because of PVP. He also got mad because of players telling other players they were idiots for not taking EM.
I believe the thread that finally pushed him over the line was the one titled "If you don't pick Energy Melee then you are a doughnut head."
If you want Energy Melee's niche to be the highest single target damage, that isn't going to happen. In a balanced world, fire would hold that position because its secondary is more damage.
And if you guys want to jump back in time, see the old thread with developer replies here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114156
This was when EM was in its prime "Aside from concept, why pick anything over EM?"
Maybe just take a new drawing board and start over with Energy Melee make it a unique set without making it a clone of Kinetic Melee.
Kinetic Melee is alot like Energy Blast "stuns and knockback/down"
Would be intresting to let Energy Melee work like Beam Rifle with Disintegrate for more damage. Would give a unique feel to it with less stuns but in some way stronger ST damage with the help of Disintegrate.
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As I remember, and I think I've said this recently too, there were a great many threads about the relative virtues of SS, SM and EM back in that era.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
And if you guys want to jump back in time, see the old thread with developer replies here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114156 This was when EM was in its prime "Aside from concept, why pick anything over EM?" |
There was no general agreement as to which was preferable. "Why pick anything but EM" may have been asked more than once, but it was hardly the generally accepted feeling.
Someone recently wrote in another thread, that if EM currently existed in it's old form, it would not be considered at all overpowered. I'm inclined to think, though having so much of the set's potential tied up in a single power is probably not good design.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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I think you could probably "fix" Energy Melee with a disintegrate effect. I think you could probably balance it just fine across all ATs. I personally don't think you should.|
Originally Posted by Dizzy_Dazzler
Maybe just take a new drawing board and start over with Energy Melee make it a unique set without making it a clone of Kinetic Melee.
Kinetic Melee is alot like Energy Blast "stuns and knockback/down" Would be intresting to let Energy Melee work like Beam Rifle with Disintegrate for more damage. Would give a unique feel to it with less stuns but in some way stronger ST damage with the help of Disintegrate. |
And I must stress this is a personal preference and style thing, but I'll go into it anyway, as I did on an earlier thread in the general discussion section.
Energy melee is a refined, efficient focused set of movements. It's not random.
If I want to smash the face off someone, it'll be the one I hit. For me, energy melee used to be about timing a fully stun enhanced TF so I could perma stun the boss, or even two bosses. Better still if they were two phasing carnie bosses... that used to be a hoot.
I suggested a couple of changes back in an earlier thread, I'll throw them out again:
1. Increase the radius on WH as per the existing dominator version (which gets the larger range)
2. Give TF back it's Mag 4 stun
3. Give ET back it's old animation, but in exchange, cut it's damage, and it's inflicted self damage down. Reduce it to a 10 or 12 second recharge power accordingly (I favour the higher damage 12 second recharge attack, but whatever). Yes this should now crit normally for stalkers (and eventually scrappers).
4. Get rid of the existing stun. Instead make it an AoE stun similar to fault or handclap, with no knock back.
No serious rework of the set, no new mechanism which (while potentially good and fun) would require going back to square one on design.
Even a short recharge, reduced damage ET strongly impacts ST Dps. You won't be tops but it'll be solid.
AoE is still poor, but more useable.
Control is now quite good.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
When I was talking about Whirling, I was thinking of damage/recharge - which is roughly the same as other sets - I admittedly did not consider range, which I agree with could be turned up.
...but that's it. I don't see anything outside of range needing a buff.
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Honestly, I just want them to take a look at:
- Whirling Hands' radius. It doesn't make much sense that the Brute, the melee archetype, has an 8-foot radius on the attack when Dominators have a 15-foot radius.
- Total Focus' animation. Currently, I'm utterly unimpressed with its DPA, especially when compared to the other "hard hitters" ala Knockout Blow.
Okay, I know this is not loved. I like the whole concept, but I admit it's got more than it's fair share of "oh no they didn't" moments as you look deeply at it. crappy aoE and a self inflicted wound. I'm not even gonna go to the jumping in the air animation or whirling your arms like a spastic...wait I just did.
Anyways, Energy still "feels" right for one of my next projects.
The reason I am posting is the strange statement they are "looking at Energy Melee" in the issue 22 wiki entry. Anybody actually know what's up?