Energy Melee changes i22

I really wish Total Focus was restored to a mag 4 stun (after all, seismic smash has a 1.5 cast time and is a mag 4 hold), the tier 2 attack had the same chance of a mag 3 stun as KM and a little reduction on ET's animation, two slow attacks is too much, playing EM is hell on the prisoner stage on BAF. And for the broots/tankers (mine's a Stalker so I never used the power) the Whirling Hands radius increased, sure. I also don't think it would be OP if Total Focus did a full crit on Stalkers, when it crits it does about the same damage as usual Energy Transfer.

About KM and EM's tier 2 and tier 3 attacks (since except Tankers the rest usually skip the tier 1, Km's tier 1 has a chance to kd tho):

tier 2:
Body Blow: 7.152s Stunned (mag 3) (20% chance)
Energy Punch: 5.96s Stunned (mag 2) (10% chance)

tier 3:
Smashing Blow: 7.152s Stunned (mag 3) (33% chance)
Bone Smasher: 9.536s Stunned (mag 3) (30% chance)

Plus the KM attacks still do -damage to the target and KM has +selfdam, -dam, KD in the AoE, etc. I was wondering why my KM Stalker was stunning mobs so often compared to my EM in the low levels (I didn't like KM's animation so only played till level 20).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazz Weird. I don't notice that much of a health drop (if any) on my Energy/Energy brute, and he doesn't have many regen bonuses...

I never felt it when leveling my Stalker (when it took 3+ months to level playing daily) even with old ET. And I 'scrapped' with her since she got into SOs.

But after the ET changes I took a big break from the game (not because of ET lol), still didn't play her for another year till recently and I gotta say, it's very noticeable for me in scenarios where I'm heavily buffed for recharge (+200% or so), like fighting iTrial AVs when I can chain ET and TF with a small gap. Of course it's not the typical play scenario pre-50, but the fact that when leveling her I knew less about game mechanics, and probably that I always had a fast recharging heal (she's /Nin) made me barely notice it while leveling and even at 50 with IOs, and she's the villain I played the most.

So maybe I would've noticed if she was EM/SR but... I don't think the hp loss is a big deal since ET is out of whack in end cost and DPA anyway.

I've been coming back to this thread daily, looking at the interesting arguments and recommendations for change. I'm a long time player myself, and only play toons that I find to be "fun". Yes, I know fun is subjective. I just don't have fun anymore on my EM toons. I have deleted all of them except for two since the changes were made. Not out of spite, but because I needed more slots, and when the choice is spending money, or deleting a toon I haven't played in over 9 months, the choice is simple.

As far as what I'd like to see happen:

1. Increase the damage on whirling hands.
2. Repeal the nerfs *ahem* adjustments to TF and ET.

Will that happen? No, and I know this, but I know that eventually, something will be done, and on that day, hopefully, I can start playing the most fun brute I have ever made.

I'm bowing out of the thread. Thank you all for a great discussion. I learned what I needed. 1) Never run Energy Melee in it's current form, I will be unhappy with it. 2) They will probably make some changes to EM in i22 3) the changes are not going to be enough to get me to ever run this set. I'm a little unhappy about it. In a game devoted to Super powered individuals there are very few good sets for melee that do not revolve around getting a knife, sword, stick, or whatever else is lying around the room to beat some fool down with. Super Strength is a great set, but unlikely to ever get ported to Scrappers. I would love to try a Scrapper, without a weapon. But KM has knockback, and I use either Will or Invul on 99% of my favorite builds. EM is... yeah. And MA is great if that is the theme, and youre happy with 400 styling ST attacks. Again, thank you all for helping me understand the set better.

I recently started a tanker with EM and not having seen what EM was like before the change occurred, I'm pleased with the overall performance.

I knew going in the powers incurred a bunch of stun so I used that to my advantage. I loaded up Bone Crusher, Whirling Hands, & Stun with stun sets. Bone Crusher with Rope-a-Dope, Whirling Hands & Stun with Stupefy. For the former, I made sure I slotted 'Chance of Knockback.' This really comes in handing when a host of enemies surrounds me. I assure myself some breathing room when I used Whirling Hands knocking back a number of them each time I use it.

For Barrage & Energy Punch I've slotted Mako's, and slotted Crushing Impact for Energy Transfer & Total Focus.

I intend to 5 or 6 slot all the sets to take advantage of the defensive modifiers and what they offer. My performance with my Tanker as I said is great. I regularly team up with lvl 50 SG members (mine is 39) and do as well as they do if not better in some cases. I guess it comes down to how you intend to use the existing powers and take advantage of what they can do, while not worry about what they cannot do.

If they do make changes, I'd hope they would shorten the activation time on ET and TF. They are a bit long in my opinion.

I just started up my En/En toon again, which got me thinking again about the lack of En Melee toons running around.

I totaly agree with the above about character concepts. If you dont want elemental attacks, or swords and sticks or fancy MA moves. Your basicly stuck with SS. En Melee definitely fits a lot of those in between character types that just dont look right with other power sets.

As to its preformance.
Changes i would love...


Whirling Hands Radius increase (no brainer). 10ft would probley do. If it was to be given 15ft like the Dominators, It might need to be moved from its current spot. Which one of the things I like about En Melee is the AoE earlyer in the set.

Make Stun AoE power, ala handclap sorta power (but no crappy KB).

Shorten animation time of Total Focus (use current Energy Transfers animation ) or make it a AoE attack like Thunder Strike and Tremor (both use the same style of animation but are AoEs.). And give it back its Mag 4 stun (in AoE case, Mag 4 only to the primary target). Honestly I lean more towards making it a AoE and keeping the animation.

Energy Transfer, hard one. IF total focus gets ET animation, then ET needs a new animation obviously. But otherwise I like it the way it is. As mention it breaks the rule formala they use to balance powers. So the damage it inflicts on yourself makes sense, and its pretty themy.



If I could wave a magic wand, I would over haul the set completely. But thats not going to happen hehe. Energy Transfer name... screams Sould Drain style power up.

My first brute, my second villain, and my second 50 is an energy melee brute. Call me biased, but I still love the set. That said, I do feel it has suffered a bit of "Flavor of the month smackdown." It was, and still is, the best at single target stun, and very good at burst damage. What has changed is that it no longer has any instant stuns for high rank enemies, and has no 'burst' burst damage. You can do huge chunks of damage but require a big windup to do them.

Issues I have:

1.Total focus

It has a longer cast time, higher endurance cost, and lower damage than total energy transfer. Yes I know, it's a lower tier attack that doesn't damage you. But still the long cast time means the foes is dies while casting in fast teams, and solo you are 'locked' in an animation while you can't do anything else. This used to be countered by its mag 4 stun, meaning even if you are left hanging in the animation, the offset was that the target, even if a boss, would be left stunned. Heck, this has a longer cast time and recharge than stone melee's seismic smash, which has better damage, control, cast, and recharge. A couple ways this could be fixed:

(A) Restore the mag 4 stun
(B) Reduce the cast animation.
(C) Add splash damage, making this into a thunderstrike clone.
(D) Add splash stun, giving it better crowd mitigation.

I like (A) because the set is unique in being so control focused, but am equally intrigued by (D). I NEVER want (C), sorry. Clones=meh. Actually, I'll come out and say that I like (D) best. This is the longest, thus most dangerous animating attack to use, might as well give some protection from the crowds that plink at me while I'm trying to slam their one buddy. A splash blast of stunning energy also would make this attack look more powerful too.

2. Whirling hands

The only AoE in energy melee. It can be handy to soften up a group, but it is slow so you cannot use it consistently to either kill or control a group that is on you. So should all the AoE damage that energy melee lacks be concentrated into one AoE, (ala superstrength) or should this one AoE provide better soft control, giving the set the multi-target mitigation it lacks elsewhere? Ideas:

(A) Increase radius from 8 feet to 10 feet, giving the one AoE better reach and coverage, causing its likelihood of hitting things to go up.
(B) Leave the radius small, increase the damage scale. This fits with the overall theme of concentrated damage.
(C) Increase the stun chance- while your ST attacks may neutralize the specific focus of your attacks, giving this better AoE mitigation would increase the survivability of the set against multiple enemies.
(D) Layer in addition soft control- knockdown, -recharge, something like that.
(E) Layer in an additional +1 mag chance to stun

I actually would lean towards both (B) AND (E). Nothing drastic on (B)...bumping its 25~26 (smash)/16~17 (energy)damage to ~30(smash)/~25(energy). This is similar to kinetic melee's burst, but skewed more toward the energy damage side. For (E) It's throw in a 50% chance of mag 1 stun...which may seem odd with the given 30% mag2 stun, but this would mean that IF it did stun with the 30% chance, it would be rather likely to hit lieutenants as well. If the mag 1 hit but not the mag 2, nobody would be stunned but it would assist in stacking stuns.

3. Stun

This is the second guaranteed stun in the set, but for a 1.8 cast stun, you do a tiny bit of damage...all the while delivering an effect that all other attacks already give. I couple ways to fix this:

(A) Shorter delivery. While it would stay a low damage effect, a faster delivery wouldn't impact overall damage much, while improving survival by removing damage from on target.
(B) Better magnitude: even if it's slow, if it's guaranteed to stun one high rank foe, it becomes a more unique tool.
(C) Splash stun: make this into a small group control power
(D) Add better damage, further strengthening energy melee as a single target damage dealer.

I actually lean away from (C) and (D), and towards (A). (C) just seems weird for a simple, low damage punching power, and (D) gives energy melee more of what it already has- high damage, slowish single target stunning powers.

4. Energy Transfer.

I loved the old fast cast mechanically, but the new animation does seem more powerful. The problem is that in most cases the damage is overkill, and with the slower animation things that can be one shot or already damaged on teams, exacerbating this. Overkill with a fast attack was cool when you just pop a minion to death in one shot...less cool when you are animating a long attack that hurts you as a team mate knocks them down to 20% health, leaving you to take out a sliver. Through target selection you can mitigate this, but at that point you are reserving burst damage because it doesn't burst well enough. Solo this is another long animation that you are locked into while other foes damage you, and to add onto that you damage yourself. Solutions:

(A) Reduce cast time
(B) Keep cast time, but deliver damage quickly upfront.
(C) Heighten stun chance, so that it is more likely to remove the fight for a bit.
(D) Add splash damage
(E) Add a small AoE splash stun

I actually like (B) best, speed up the two arm punch 'windup' portion, but slow down the 'wind down afterwards' part of the animation. This way you get burst damage upfront quickly, even if your character has to do a wind down animation. If I could, I would add (E) as well, for the feel of power and for survival.

So to summarize my personal preferences for tweaking Energy melee:

• Give total focus a splash stun effect
• Heighten whirling hands' damage to about the same range as kinetic melee: burst, but with more of an energy portion. Add a 50% mag 1 chance stun in addition to its 30% chance of mag 2, allowing better stun stacking.
• Give "Stun" an incredibly fast cast time.
• Keep energy transfer's cast time, but put the damage upfront. If possible, give it a splash stun effect.

Looking like Energy has no changes in i22? Wow, I backed off this thread for many weeks, to come back and....sigh. I am still looking for that perfect replacement for SS. I have been running an Elec/Elec Scrapper. He is very strong, and I am happy with him. But I have this concept in my head, and I do not want to go Super Strength again. I would even take Energy ported over to Scrappers just as it is right now, even though I freaking hate the self damage of the set, and on a Scrapper it will seem even worse. I played Brutes for years, and was quite happy. They are very strong. But I have noticed in iTrials many times Fury works against the Brute. Look at Keyes. You are separated from the AV just long enough regularly to lose all fury. Being a Scrapper allows the 10-15 second face time you get with the AV to really count. Same in Underground Trial. You cannot roll through it at a pace to keep Fury up. I love a Brute for a radio mission room crawl team. They are the best. But the game goes more and more towards 2-3 minute cooldowns then 1 minute fights. TPN anyone? A thousand other examples show that late game play favors the Scrapper mechanic, unless you want to build a Tank primarily, with Scrapper damage sporadically. I am thinking of server transferring a 34 Energy/Will Brute to my new main server and working on them some more. I have never 50'd the build. But my experience with Scrappers is really starting to make me want this set available for Scrappers.

Hey, sorry for arriving late to this party. But I, too, have an EM brute that's sitting there waiting for the set to be "looked at", so I was curious about the mention of changes in I22.

I remembered one of the devs saying EM is one set they would make some changes to if they could, from some interview where several devs answered that question, but that didn't sound definite to me. Well, the I22 page in the wiki does mention the source of their info, a coffee talk: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=279666

It says:

Energy Melee?
Hawk: "We are looking at it. It's too early to talk about details. Somewhere down the line we'll come up with something cool to do it."

So, maybe not as soon as I22 release, but it sounds more definite than one guy among a bunch saying that maybe EM is a set he would like to look at...

As for the suggestions in this thread, most seem really nice. I specially like increasing the range in WH and adding splash damage in TF to help AoE, and maybe giving stun the Clobber/Cobra Strike treatment. If TF was seen as an alternative AoE power the set wouldn't feel so slow even with ET unchanged (having one slow power in your ST attack chain instead of two is really great, and AoE powers are usually forgiven longer animations), Stun could be used to bring up the ST-chain damage, AoE would get better.

But I'm actually curious to see what the devs will eventually come up with. Despite some outliers and some time limitations, I think our devs are pretty good about balancing things, in general.