|
Originally Posted by SailorET
The alcoholic squirrel is absolutely right.
|
| By the way, you might want to cut that squirrel off, he's been drinking like that for years. |
|
Originally Posted by Unit24
I'd really like to see Death from Below subject to diminishing returns... Couple potentials here.
1) XP gains from DFB reduced by 25% of maximum per run after one successful run, to a minimum of 0% after the 4th run. 2) XP gains reduced to 0% after level 10. I think the second would probably be a better choice, since the max level one can use powers from is 10. EDIT: The reason I post this is because there is virtually no reason to run DFB above level 10 aside from badges, providing one hasn't already gotten all of them. Also I'm tired of the constant spam. :/ |
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Well Sir, happy to say you don't get to control what others are able to do in a game they pay to play.
Carry on. |
|
Originally Posted by Unit24
Look at it this way. Would you rather have freebs playing DFB to 10, getting bored with it because no xp, and subsequently playing actual content and learning to use their powers, or freebs playing DFB to 50 and not knowing how anything else in the game works?
|
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah, yeah. The same thing was said about the AE and guess what, the game survived, and we are better off having the AE in the game. Same situation here.
|
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Let it be popular, that's OK. But we need some way of telling people that this isn't World of Tanks.
|
I can almost guarantee, given the usual vitriol of people in these forums, that putting some diminishing return on DFB will result in some giant mass exodus like what you had when they started nerfing AE. Even if it's not a big deal, people will make it out like it is, but that's mostly a problem with how apathetic our community is about every decision the developers make.
I don't think they CAN take DFB down at this point.
The DFB already has diminishing returns:
1. As was mentioned by someone already, the leveling tapers off after about four runs. (about level 14 or so.)
2. The shiney new powers grayed out is incentive to go play other content.
3. After a few runs on the same character it's pretty boring pretty fast.
I myself have enjoyed running the DFB on some new characters just to get away from the low level stuff that I have run till I'm sick to death of it. A new way to get past the painful low levels for me has given me incentive to try new power combinations I haven't in the past.
If you don't care for it then ignore it.
| Originally by Arcanaville: Everything in Praetoria was designed during a drinking binge in which the devs temporarily forgot the rules. |
As others have said, at about level 20 the XP gain is very, very poor that really, anyone that carries on after this point .. well ..
Perhaps there should be some pointers after a certain level is reached in the Trial? Or after it's completed? Of course, said pointer would be once per account, but overall would inform players of the other things to do in City of Heroes such as:
Regarding pointers, at the end of the trial on blueside Positron actually does tell people to come see him in steel canyon when they hit level 10. Problem is he does that in the popup npc captions that no one ever reads.
Personally I think we need more than just death from below in the lfg system, which is something I hope they're working on. Free players come into the game and are taught that's the way to do team content, but all that's in there is this one trial so they assume that's all there is. If everything else was in there too, with more things popping up in the list as you level high enough to do them, I think the problem would solve itself.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Of course it survived, but serious experience tapers were put in place over the Architect and serious exploits patched up. Moreover, the Architect was advertised as a legitimate progression path, something you could level up from 1 to 50 on. Having people do that was never the issue, only the speed with which they do so. Furthermore, with the curbing of rampant (or at least very public) farming, interest in the Architect died down enough for new players to not immediately be swept up in it and never let go.
Again, the DFB is different, in that I don't believe its intent has ever been for people to level up to 50 on that and that alone. Moreover, the DFB is so popular that it exceeds absolutely all other activities available to new players at the time of character creation. In this case, I don't think "nerfing" the DFB to kill interest is a viable solution (or a good idea, for that matter), but I still believe some mechanism needs to be in place to serve as a limiter and a reminder that there's more to the game than just that. I'm well aware that exemplaring for content is a good idea and I wouldn't dream of preventing people from earning anything off the DFB. I'm not even talking about reducing experience or drops or what have you. Again, I don't know what shape this needs to take, but I've seen enough people argue with me that re-running the DFB in the late 20s is the best experience and I've seen enough people in their early 20s apparently unaware that other content exists to be concerned. Let it be popular, that's OK. But we need some way of telling people that this isn't World of Tanks. |
No, definitely do not agree with the diminishing returns. I think the devs simply underestimated the popularity of the LFG tool so did not take the time to add other Trials and TFs.
For me, the LFG tool simply needs more options added to it. Low level, there is no other option for easily teaming together and gaining a lot of xp. They already mentioned they will be working on it so players can still teleport to a trial from within a mission. Not that I want to give the 800 pound gorilla too much credit but in addition, I really like the design of their team up teleporter. I would love if we could designate archetypes and wait for them to fill up, then the trial begins.
I think it is one of their best additions yet and the DFB should not suffer because it is so popular. It just needs time and work to provide more options so one trial does not stand out so much in contrast.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Sam do you mind if I ask if you've tried to see what it's like leveling a character to 50 just doing DfB's? If not please check for yourself and see how leveling gets slower and slower as the character's level rises.
Maybe the people you've been talking to have a group of friends that get together and power play thru DfB's endlessly. Or maybe they are just perpetuating gossip that they heard but never experienced for themselves. |
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
I don't really mind if the Devs want a way for folks to legitimately power level, but I'd at least like them to do a chain of trials instead of just having the one. So you do DFB 2-3 times, hit 10, and then go into.. something like the Praetorian Syndicate event, where you fight your way through an office building and end with a boss fight at the top. From like 10-20, then another trial, etc.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Just because I am kinda bored..... I MAY just do this and record how long it takes.. how many runs etc etc.... hehehe and document it here on the boards.. because I already know it will bore me to Death (from below).
Need to find a toon I can play at such low levels a bazillion times though hmmmmmm |
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Personally I don't have the patience for it. Especially since the number of players on the team effects how much exp you get so you'd have to keep track of the number of runs, the number of players per run, etc, etc.
|
|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'd really like to see it made impossible to queue for DFB while you're on a team...
|
|
Originally Posted by Twigman
Then no one could currently play it. It's impossible to get in any LFG without being on a team first. Though, that would fix the problem of people playing it. :P
|
|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
That's on servers where no one uses the queue.
I joined plenty of DFB's alone while I was chatting in global channels or in WW. Granted, this was on Freem/Virtue at peak hours, because even on these servers, although there are DFB teams forming all the time, few people used the queue, so in non-peak hours I found myself in 4-ppl dfb teams, some that were slow because they were like 3 controllers and 1 mm and no one had significant damage at that level, plus some took me 5 minutes to start, I just prefer to form teams because of that. On less populated servers you can queue yourself and wait forever. (btw I just did a BAF joining the queue too, and I was alone). |
If they want to run DFBs till they're blue in the face, that's their prerogative. It's hardly game breaking by any means. They can think it's faster leveling, but you're fighting even con enemies the entire time.
I do see the point the OP is trying to make.
Problem: Running into higher level toons that don't understand basic mechanics.
Solution:Slow down the leveling process.
See, I don't think that just slowing down the DFB is way to go. If we truly want players that are well versed in game mechanics - these first must be identified.
On Liberty's more populated global channel, a player wondered what zone Manticore was in. Well, truth be told, I can certainly understand how someone who solos or just came from the red side might not know this. Still, it's unsettling to think I might be teamed with someone who doesn't know what I would consider basic information. But, I have to remind myself that there are Free players that used to play this game but forgot their login info and just started over as free players who know a good deal about pulling, herding, task force requirements etc. There are also a good number of premium players who let their subs lapse because they have no interest in incarnate content and have enough rewards to keep their IOs working.
Each server is going to have its ...lesser players and players who contribute - and those who bring even more to the table than we do. This is part and parcel why we have a global friends list and SGs. To limit our time with those who do not bring much to the table.
For those that solo a lot, I suspect that they feel the sting of the DFB runners more often than those who don't.
But, still, I don't think nerfing DFB is the way to go.
This game has always had clueless players that don't know basic information. Before the DfB they used super sidekicking and the removal of level restrictions to get PL'd in events like Mothership raids, before that it was the AE, before that they hung out in PI.
There are veteran players that encourage their behavior because they just want door sitters whose only purpose is to increase the mission difficulty for them. Heck there are entire SG's that promote that play style.
|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
For those that solo a lot, I suspect that they feel the sting of the DFB runners more often than those who don't.
|
Forbin...
your avatar needs a alchohol taper.
That is all.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Wait . . . exactly how do soloists feel the "sting" of DfB runners than people that team? By definition of being a soloist means they don't team with other people so another persons play style has no impact on them.
People that prefer soloing are going to encounter the few clueless players far less frequently then team players because they like playing solo. |
|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Though your question/comment does have merit, when I say "people that prefer soloing", I don't mean to suggest that they never team up. But, I probably should be more clear.
In my case, I will almost always solo something like SSA. It's far faster for me to run it and get the hero merit than to actually form the team. Same with most story arcs. Teams provide, in general, a far slower leveling process that soloing - for most of my toons. (Because teams must be formed, tells sent, questions answered, etc) However, I like my toons to have the Task Force Commander accolade. Aside from the old Positron tf being available in Ouroboros, the rest of the tfs have to be done on a team. When I hit level 50, I want my toons to be level shifted at a minimum. This also requires teaming. So, it stands to reason that I would be less familiar with some of the "lesser" players than someone who teams on PUGs on a regular basis. Just my two cents. |
