Please give us back our Freedom(tm) at lower levels


Agent White

 

Posted

I used to really enjoy starting a new hero. Every time I entered Atlas Park with a fresh character and heard that signature theme, I always felt a bit of a thrill, recapturing a sliver of that feeling I had when I first entered Paragon City more than 6 years ago. I liked playing the low levels, slowly jogging around the zone, getting the feel of the new character and its style of play, slowing building an idea of his or her personality from the character's interactions with the early contacts and performance on those early missions. Also, depending on the character's origin, I could be fighting anything from Clockwork to the dreaded Vahzilok.

This week I started my first new character since Freedom went live. (I had two others I wanted to get to 50 first.) I had been looking forward to the new opening in GC, and it was nice enough, though I was surprised how short it was. "Ok," I thought, "they don't want people to get bored having to play the same long arc for every character they create, so they wanted us to get into Atlas and start having some freedom of choice." How wrong I was.

Now, I understand that some people hate the early levels and want to rush through them. That's fine, and the game now has the new sewer trial for them. But for those of us who want to play at a "normal" pace for the early levels, we have only the Habashy arcs (which are ok, with a single choice in deciding which contact will precede Thiery) and then the excruciating Twinshot arc, with the most insufferable characters ever written into any MMO.

Some other MMOs have unique arcs based on class or race to give you a special intro into the world. A new MMO about to come out continues these class-specific arcs throughout the game. I admit that the origin-specific arcs in CoH could have been better, but at least it gave us some variety when starting out. One of the main complaints about CoV at first was the single path you had to follow in early levels. Luckily, the devs saw the light and at least offered us one more option. Now on blueside all the origin arcs have been taken away. I realise we can choose a fast-track TF, random radio missions, or street sweeping, so there is *some* choice, but if you want actual written story arc content, there's only one path.

I remember when GR came out and I was thrilled to have some interesting options with improved writing for the early levels. I kept thinking that sort of design improvement would be applied to Primal characters' starting experiences, but instead we seem to be going backwards, losing what choice we did have.

Can't we at least have the old origin arcs back?

It's bad enough we have to go down this single path, but the Twinshot arc is so bad that I feel I have to comment on it further. I've tried playing through it using the suggestion someone else made on the forums that the horrible characters are meant as irony, illustrating some of the most egregious types of annoying player characters (the Thinks-She's-Cool character, the technobabble character, the inscrutable alien, the one who won't shut up, and the Obviously-from-Another-MMO character). Even trying to see it this way, I still have trouble getting through this arc without wanting to strangle them all. I did create a macro for the facepalm emote to use after almost every interaction; that helps a bit when the dialogue gets truly painful. But, if this irony is indeed the excuse for these characters, wouldn't that be lost on a new player?

There are also the numerous grammatical/spelling errors, but worse than all this is the feeling that comes from playing this arc. One of the big advantages of early CoH play has always been the fact that your characters feel powerful from the start -- no spider or frog hunts here. But this arc consistently talks down to you, with characters that are no better than you constantly reminding you that you're a noob, and telling you you can't handle these mobs when you do most of the fighting anyway. The main goal in the arc seems to be to gain the approval of these repellent characters in order to join their group, which is the last thing I actually want! And of course at the end of the first arc [slight spoiler] you find you have been played by an even stronger hero, and your character's only reaction seems to be, "Wow, thanks so much for being interested in me enough to send me on a wild goose chase." I come out of that arc feeling both annoyed and belittled. Not heroic in the slightest. Is this really how we want new players to feel when they start this game?

And now my character is level 9 with the only option for continuing story content being Wincott, followed by a threat of the return of Twinshot at lvl 10. Really? If I don't want to essentially skip the lower levels via the sewers or play random missions, the Hollows is my only option? That's all I get at lvl 9?

Where's the freedom in that?


 

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They havn't removed any freedom.
If you wanna do the old contacts you can.


 

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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko View Post
They havn't removed any freedom.
If you wanna do the old contacts you can.
That's good to know -- how? My new character is magic origin and Azuria won't talk to him.


 

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All of Kings Row's arcs are still intact. That covers 5-10 without touching Twinshot's crap. From there it's onward to Skyway or Steel as usual if you don't want to head to the Hollows.

That does leave 1-5 to a single contact, as you mentioned, but 1 to 5 is less than an hour of playtime of a character's 'life'. Even just street sweeping. Given that, I can see why they decided to fill that hour up with a single new tech arc instead of going through the effort of remapping old origin mission doors and contacts to the new Atlas Park. If the devs found themselves with extra time I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Atlas origin missions make a return for variety's sake (though I've never done them. Ever. I preferred taking 20 minutes in Galaxy sweeping to 5 and then hitting Kings Row.)


Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."

 

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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad View Post
All of Kings Row's arcs are still intact. That covers 5-10 without touching Twinshot's crap. From there it's onward to Skyway or Steel as usual if you don't want to head to the Hollows.
OK, good to know there's some arc content that can be played instead of the Twinshot arc. So I can just walk up to the KR contacts with no introduction? This will help me with future new characters, but I still feel sorry for new players.

Edit: fixed quoting syntax


 

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Originally Posted by CinnderScot View Post
OK, good to know there's some arc content that can be played instead of the Twinshot arc. So I can just walk up to the KR contacts with no introduction? This will help me with future new characters, but I still feel sorry for new players.

Edit: fixed quoting syntax
I think you still have to run through a safeguard first. So, 3 radios first.


 

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It's good to know I'm not the only one who hates the entire Twinshot arc, not to mention the entire team she assembled. (I mean, most of the forum's vitriol seems to be reserved for Flambimbeaux....)


 

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Originally Posted by Kierthos View Post
It's good to know I'm not the only one who hates the entire Twinshot arc, not to mention the entire team she assembled. (I mean, most of the forum's vitriol seems to be reserved for Flambimbeaux....)
LOL -- I actually don't mind Flambeaux as much as the others. Maybe that's just because the arc acknowledges her insufferability while ignoring that of the others.

The single best thing about the new training arcs on redside is the opportunity to defeat each and every one of the Shining Stars. >:-)


 

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I'd like to see origin arcs return too, revamped obviously since the original arcs are complete garbage, but at least something to give the low-level game some variety.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

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Like the OP, I am annoyed by the new opening arcs that I skip them entirely. Now, it's:
street sweep to 5 (less than an hour);
go to KR and do the 3 Radio Mish and a Safeguard (now almost level 7);
and then either do (a) contact mishes or (b) continue doing Radio/Safeguiard mishes until 10.
After that, contacts in Steel or Skyway open up quite frequently.

I did the new stuff a few times (including Twinshot @ 10 and 15) and now cannot stand the thought of ever doing those arcs again. They are not well written and fail miserably in their objective of being an all inclusive introduction to the game. Most of what new players learn, they will learn from other players and not those boring arcs.


 

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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko View Post
They havn't removed any freedom.
If you wanna do the old contacts you can.
I would love to have some evidence of this being true as well. I have tried relentlessly to get to the old contacts and whether you do the tutorial or not your first contact is Dorkashy or whatever his name is.

Even if you go into City Hall and find the contact that would have normally been associated with your origin clicking them just says "I have nothing for you" or something to that extent. Doing the "find a contact" only brings up Dorkashy and I think maybe Twinshot. If there is a way to get to the old contacts it is so buried and bass akwards that 99% of the player base doesn't even know the option is there.




I too grow tired of the forced content (and forced lackluster content at that) that is constantly crammed down our throat. It started with Incarnate release when it was a forced farming system of running the same TFs and then the same 2 or 3 trials over and over and over and over. And that model seems to have continued - why take away the individuality?

Where's the repeatability? They hammer down on people who make farms in AE but then all the new content that devs create is farms and forced repeat content for every single character you make. Pre Freedumb I made a new character once every few months and enjoyed it. I have made 1 character post Freedumb and have no desire to make another because I don't feel like running the same crappy content and don't feel like farming a sewer trial...


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnderScot View Post
OK, good to know there's some arc content that can be played instead of the Twinshot arc. So I can just walk up to the KR contacts with no introduction? This will help me with future new characters, but I still feel sorry for new players.

Edit: fixed quoting syntax
You should get an initial KR contact by using the 'find contact' button once you are the appropriate level. After that you can run missions for that contact and get introduced to another after the first, or run paper/safeguard missions to get more.

EDIT: They did remove the old 'starter' contacts from the main game - you can do them in flashback via Oro. These where the old 1-5 contacts the didn't really even have story arcs - and you go so fast from 2-5 I can't see the need for them.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

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Originally Posted by Kierthos View Post
It's good to know I'm not the only one who hates the entire Twinshot arc, not to mention the entire team she assembled. (I mean, most of the forum's vitriol seems to be reserved for Flambimbeaux....)
Only members of the Shining Stars I liked were Dillo, Flambeaux for being so obnoxious, and maybe Grim for having common sense. I really REALLY did not like Twinshot. Especially how she talks down on you and is your "cool friend with sunglasses". She really thinks she's cooler than she really is, even after a spoiler reason later which nearly gets everyone killed.

But yeah. I'd love some options besides just Matthew since I already felt like I saved Atlas Park and all that before. Hard to get into it on another character when I already treat my other character completing it as self-canon.

Also I'd REALLY love some new contacts after Roy cooling and Agent whats his name. Going from the awesome i17+ contacts to the joe shmoe "hi wana go safe an ofice bldn 5 times lololo" contacts can be kind of a let down. It happened to me during i18. I had originally only gotten into redside before hand, and when I had my Praetorian go hero, the Clone arc was a really cool thing and all. It felt like I was really exploring a new world and going from the oven to the frying pan. But then I had really nothing after that. I was spoiled by story and...Blah.



http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara

 

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
I'd like to see origin arcs return too, revamped obviously since the original arcs are complete garbage, but at least something to give the low-level game some variety.
/this


 

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
I'd like to see origin arcs return too, revamped obviously since the original arcs are complete garbage, but at least something to give the low-level game some variety.
Hear, hear. I'd also like to see the return of the Snakes missions on Red Side for some variety (while we certainly grew tired of them when they were the only option, there was no compelling reason to remove them completely.

Please, to reiterate an earlier request, use new GR-style options, such as fixed-door missions, glowies, and exta dialogue options for immersion, and update lore references to take the last several years into account. When the devs at Blizzard decided to roll out their recent ambitious expansion for the end game, they also redid the early content for all eight starting zones, knowing that would not only draw new players, but also retain veteran ones. The alternative is grinding Death from Below to avoid the worse monotony of CoH's current single-path starting environments.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Please, to reiterate an earlier request, use new GR-style options, such as fixed-door missions, glowies, and exta dialogue options for immersion, and update lore references to take the last several years into account. When the devs at Blizzard decided to roll out their recent ambitious expansion for the end game, they also redid the early content for all eight starting zones, knowing that would not only draw new players, but also retain veteran ones.
I'm...pretty sure that's exactly what they did. The early missions on both blue and red side have been completely revamped. These new missions are, in fact, what are being complained about in this thread.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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It can help to find some low level Architect missions you like, or make your own.


 

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Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
I'm...pretty sure that's exactly what they did. The early missions on both blue and red side have been completely revamped. These new missions are, in fact, what are being complained about in this thread.
They didn't revamp the content, they completely redid it. What we're asking for is having the old arcs updated with new tech and mission design.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

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Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
They did remove the old 'starter' contacts from the main game - you can do them in flashback via Oro. These where the old 1-5 contacts the didn't really even have story arcs - and you go so fast from 2-5 I can't see the need for them.
That misses the OP's point imo. Like stated not all of us are hungry for xp and the need to level faster than the speed of light. Some enjoy that early content that moves a little slower and allows you to explore your character. I agree it's not for everyone - and for those people there are the new arcs and the sewer trial - but I see no reason to punish those of us that actually enjoy a slower pace.

Add new content, that's fine. But take content away?? Why??


 

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Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
You should get an initial KR contact by using the 'find contact' button once you are the appropriate level.
I wish that were the case. That's exactly what I tried, but the Find Contact button gave me only Habashy (even though I had completed all his content) and Wincott.

Thanks for the AE offer, Vox. If you know of some good ones for anywhere in the 1-10 range, please feel free to post them here. Still, I wish the people who actually got paid for this would give us some decent choice of low level content.


 

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Originally Posted by Evangel_NA View Post
That misses the OP's point imo. Like stated not all of us are hungry for xp and the need to level faster than the speed of light. Some enjoy that early content that moves a little slower and allows you to explore your character. I agree it's not for everyone - and for those people there are the new arcs and the sewer trial - but I see no reason to punish those of us that actually enjoy a slower pace.

Add new content, that's fine. But take content away?? Why??
Yes, precisely my point. I want story and character interaction from the start. The single path of arcs does give us that (even if some of the character interaction is abhorrent), but I would like some choice.

Yes, yes, yes: why take content away? They have these new arcs; fine -- add them to the palette. But why not leave the old stuff as it was?


 

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I think the main reason for 'standardizing' (I guess) the early levels was so that players could get together at low-levels and do the same missions without having to see who had what contact, etc, so that everyone could get the mission arc completion bonus.

Edit to say that my opinion on this isn't particularly valid because I have an intense dislike for the game pre-22. I simply don't feel 'super' enough until I have more powers, more slots, and the enhancements to make them... well, enhanced. This isn't so much a statement on the low level content as much as it is the experience.


 

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You can also try the Hollows arcs in that level range.


I pulled the trigger. That's right, I did it, in Warburg, with the pistol. - Mista Chains

Everyone know the Tank Archetype get the most drops of all the types. This is because of their "Death Dealing" powers. I call it the front line bonus...but you'll never read this in the wiki - "Rx10"

 

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It's the circle of development hell.

Group X complains that the existing story arcs are boring and not worth playing, that the only thing to do from 1-10 is run the sewers over and over and over again.

The developers hear this and make a completely new lowbie experience, getting rid of the old missions because hey, players said they were boring and they needed to move things 'forward' in lore anyway.

Group Y, who had heretofore been invisible because they were happy with the status quo and weren't paying much attention to complaints, gets upset that the story arcs they liked are gone and begin to complain.

Developers crack open their fourth bottle of Jack that morning.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka View Post
I'd love some options besides just Matthew since I already felt like I saved Atlas Park and all that before.
Holy crap, I just realized something... My favorite starting contact before Freedom was a Matthew, and my least-favorite after Freedom is a Matthew. Freaky!