Gender Equality?! I LIKE CHEESECAKE!
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-12-02 23:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Speaking of what people find sexy, I feel it's about high time I threw a little spanner in the works. I posted this over at the All Things Art thread, but it's worth reposting here.
Speaking of cheesecakes, provocative outfits and alluring clothes, do you know what I find sexy? This:
Yeah, I know it's revealing, but that's not the point, not to me, anyway. It's simply that this physique is both unusual and entirely too fitting for how the character acts. When last I brought it up, Golden Girl accused me of being gay, which I'm not to the extent that I'm aware, but who knows?
My point is that "sexy" and "cheesecake" are not the same thing. To my eyes, "cheesecake" is not sexy because it has all of the intentional provocativeness with none of the style, while "sexy" can often be something that's not half-naked or all that curvy. Or curvy in not quite the expected way.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
My point is that "sexy" and "cheesecake" are not the same thing. To my eyes, "cheesecake" is not sexy because it has all of the intentional provocativeness with none of the style, while "sexy" can often be something that's not half-naked or all that curvy. Or curvy in not quite the expected way.
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My take on it is that cheesecake player-characters are only possible if the player intentionally creates them. This game isn't a Sword and Sorcery RPG where you have to wear certain kinds of armor, and everyone is basically human. I think we've talked in the past about how debates about revealing clothes are pretty subjective, when what you could be talking about is whether a robot or lizard-person is showing too much leg. Sexiness is very easy to subvert, and even one costume piece that is out of alignment (like a hideous face or hairy legs) can result in comedy or even revulsion.
Now, for the kind of characters I and some other players tend to roll, subversion is the entire point. The pieces I need are generally extreme, exaggerated, and readable at a distance. Actual sexiness is not really a consideration.
I do think a few of my characters are "attractive," including the Oedipus Tex model itself. But generally if I'm using the sexier so-called "cheesecake" parts it's what I would call "pantomime sexy" and not actually sexy. I think there is a fine line between these concepts and maybe I'm not always successful in pulling it off, but the Attila character in my signature would be an example of an attempt at this.
Given both the source material and much of the fan base, I'm not sure how successful subverting the cheesecake is even possible, considering that for every parody you make, someone has made the exact same character with a straight face. For instance, looking at your Atilla character, I don't see a parody. I see something a lot like what I've done in all seriousness and something people I know have done unironically.
Going back to Moo's original post, though, he was saying he likes the sexy and likes has no problem with revealing and provocative clothes and other costume options. Thing is, neither do I. I like and have used many of those options, including the Steampunk corset, including the Witch gauntlets and so forth. However, that's not the extent of what I find sexy, nor the extent of what I like in a character, hence why my priority is variety over pure sex appeal.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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now I want more tattoo options, dammit Sam!
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Believe me, so do I. I honestly wish we had the tech to layer patterns on top of patterns, or otherwise the ability to have tattoos without clothes under jackets and shirts. Men kind of sort of get that since they can have bare chests (but not legs), but even then, very few pattern options actually look like tattoos, and very few are asymmetrical.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
now I want more tattoo options, dammit Sam!
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The one in the pic has tattoos on her upper and lower back, lower chest, upper left arm and whole right arm, plus a couple on her legs that you can't see. I would kill to have that in-game.
*edit*
More pics.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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All I want is that if I the male gets one type of concept that the female gets the same concept, Cowboy and Cowgirl, not Cowboy and Prossie, retro space suit and retro spacesuit, not retro spacesuit and Mamerella alien queen of the planet Stripton Five.
If the female model gets some 'sexy' extra's that's fine as long as it gets the none sexy items to fufil the same concept as the male model.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Which is also pretty much the point of the thread David started, or at least the point people are getting across to him.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Given both the source material and much of the fan base, I'm not sure how successful subverting the cheesecake is even possible, considering that for every parody you make, someone has made the exact same character with a straight face. For instance, looking at your Atilla character, I don't see a parody. I see something a lot like what I've done in all seriousness and something people I know have done unironically.
Going back to Moo's original post, though, he was saying he likes the sexy and likes has no problem with revealing and provocative clothes and other costume options. Thing is, neither do I. I like and have used many of those options, including the Steampunk corset, including the Witch gauntlets and so forth. However, that's not the extent of what I find sexy, nor the extent of what I like in a character, hence why my priority is variety over pure sex appeal. |
A whole bunch of people are acting like someone rolled out the Puritan brigade or something and started banning bikinis. *eyeroll*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Given both the source material and much of the fan base, I'm not sure how successful subverting the cheesecake is even possible, considering that for every parody you make, someone has made the exact same character with a straight face. For instance, looking at your Atilla character, I don't see a parody. I see something a lot like what I've done in all seriousness and something people I know have done unironically.
Going back to Moo's original post, though, he was saying he likes the sexy and likes has no problem with revealing and provocative clothes and other costume options. Thing is, neither do I. I like and have used many of those options, including the Steampunk corset, including the Witch gauntlets and so forth. However, that's not the extent of what I find sexy, nor the extent of what I like in a character, hence why my priority is variety over pure sex appeal. |
Well, there is the literal path, like this:
Note that the Gunslinger pack didn't come with either tights or a new face, so the player has to pick for themselves. If someone wants to read that as "sexy" I can't really stop them but to me it's a subversion.
As for whether some people are making serious characters with costumes similar to what some players are making in parody, there's only so much you can do with just the clothing piece. If someone thinks a sorority girl in a plate mail bikini is serious business that is their own affair. To me it's literally an electronic drag performance.
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Fixed... to apply to me. See how that works?
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
I am a homosexual male. I like hot guys. I like hot, scantily-clad guys. I like superheroes and villains who are both hot and scantily clad. I sometimes, but not always, like the characters I play in City of Heroes to be hot, scantily-clad superheroes or villains.
I am all for having more costume options for guys. In my mind, men are vastly more attractive than women. They need more clothes to accentuate that attractiveness. I like buying clothes for them. You may not share my opinions or tastes. However, I'm a VIP subscriber. My male characters receive far more attention than my nonexistent female characters when it comes to costumes. When I make the decision on whether or not to purchase a costume item or pack, I'm not nearly as concerned about the female models as I am the male models. COH Artists and Developers: Please include VASTLY MORE costume pieces for male models than you do female models. More accessories, shoes, boots, and costume items. The more attractive, the better. Scanty is okay, I guess. Sheer and lacy items are right out. Shiny is fantastic. |
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...Are you literally insane? Sometimes I wonder. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Silence!
I kill your fleshy *** dead! Meatsack!  I still fail to see why people seem to be insisting on the extremes, when, in the other thread, people are trying to edge it more towards 'A bit of both'. |
I am of the school of thought that holds jokes are the socially-acceptable method of saying what one REALLY thinks. I evaluate all such statements as yours carefully, just sayin'.
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Treating leather chaps and scrubs as the same thing is so ridiculous that you should be embarrassed at using it.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Just understand that not all of us want to do that. I wear scrubs every day.... don't want to do it in CoX.
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Now, what I'm about to say is either profoundly philosophical, or just means I'm messed up, but... Yeah, I kind of do see it as sexy |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Well, there is the literal path, like this:
Note that the Gunslinger pack didn't come with either tights or a new face, so the player has to pick for themselves. If someone wants to read that as "sexy" I can't really stop them but to me it's a subversion. |
Yes, the rotting flesh does detract from it somewhat, but WoW's undead are not exempt from Rule 34 (to say nothing of World of Porncraft) so "undeath" in itself is not a complete roadblock.I personally have a mentality which is capable of finding hugely unattractive concepts in general and costumes in particular if I like enough about them to be able to overlook the parts I don't like. In some instances, I like an aspect of an otherwise ugly or questionable costume so much that I begin to enjoy the costume's apparent drawbacks as ironic positives. The undead saloon girl is just amusing enough as a concept and inspiring to write about AND pretty enough if you look past the rotting flesh that she does actually look pretty good.
Well, to me, anyway.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
As for whether some people are making serious characters with costumes similar to what some players are making in parody, there's only so much you can do with just the clothing piece. If someone thinks a sorority girl in a plate mail bikini is serious business that is their own affair. To me it's literally an electronic drag performance.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm mildly eccentric. I leave it up to individuals to make up their own minds on such stuff.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
...Are you literally insane? Sometimes I wonder.
I am of the school of thought that holds jokes are the socially-acceptable method of saying what one REALLY thinks. I evaluate all such statements as yours carefully, just sayin'. |
And I'm no comedian anyway
Although, at present? I'm re-lining over 170+ frames of animation work, and dear smeg if I don't FEEL like I'm going insane right now... < _ >
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That sounds very unfair since not everyone puts hidden meanings in their jokes. I, personally, try to find clever ways to make stupid things appear believable enough to be taken seriously, and then rely on logical dissonance to make people laugh.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I am of the school of thought that holds jokes are the socially-acceptable method of saying what one REALLY thinks. I evaluate all such statements as yours carefully, just sayin'.
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Things that are stupid yet still make sense in their stupidity are the most amusing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yeah, that too.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That sounds very unfair since not everyone puts hidden meanings in their jokes. I, personally, try to find clever ways to make stupid things appear believable enough to be taken seriously, and then rely on logical dissonance to make people laugh.
Things that are stupid yet still make sense in their stupidity are the most amusing. |
It requires effort to put subtle meanings behind stuff. Effort I don't have in spare right now >_>
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I think it's a good sign for the CoH community that this thread isn't getting nearly the amount of traffic as the one asking for more equality
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I dunno, there seem to be a few posters in that one whose argument could be narrowed down to 'BEWBS!' Imo...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think it's a good sign for the CoH community that this thread isn't getting nearly the amount of traffic as the one asking for more equality
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Whew!|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
(snipped image)
I am a heterosexual male. I like pretty girls. I like pretty, scantily-clad girls. I like superheroines and villainesses who are both pretty and scantily clad. I frequently, but not always, like the characters I play in City of Heroes to be pretty, scantily-clad superheroines or villainesses. I am all for having more costume options for guys. However, when I look at my closet, I see that Mrs. Moo's section is about 4-5 times as large as mine. I also realize that the vast majority of those clothes, shoes, and accessories have been paid for, at least in terms of cash, by me. I'm COMPLETELY okay with that. It's a GOOD THING! In my mind, women are vastly more attractive than men. They need more clothes to accentuate that attractiveness. I like buying clothes for her. You may not share my opinions or tastes. However, I'm a VIP subscriber, and I will also pay for attractive costumes for my female COH characters. My male characters receive far less attention than my female characters when it comes to costumes. When I make the decision on whether or not to purchase a costume item or pack, I'm not nearly as concerned about the male models as I am the female models. COH Artists and Developers: Please include VASTLY MORE costume pieces for female models than you do male models. More accessories, shoes, boots, and costume items. The more attractive, the better. Scanty is quite alright. Sheer and lacy items are wonderful. Cutouts are awesome. Shiny is fantastic. Because I like Cheesecake, and I'm willing to pay for it! |
Thanks for telling women how they should dress to please you.
'Cause there's not enough of that in the world, already.
Oh, and if you don't care for this type of response, just chalk it up to women being hysterical or whatever derogatory term is in fashion this decade, and maybe buy 'em something. That'll shut 'em up.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
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/Win. I'll get behind more costume options for guys any day!|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Fixed... to apply to me. See how that works?
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Whew!
Thanks for telling women how they should dress to please you. 'Cause there's not enough of that in the world, already. Oh, and if you don't care for this type of response, just chalk it up to women being hysterical or whatever derogatory term is in fashion this decade, and maybe buy 'em something. That'll shut 'em up. |
Yeah...
On another note: I'm going to go find my overly baggy sweatshirt now...it's freakin cold in my house.
I don't know what this post/thread is about but...
I support the title of "I like Cheesecake!"....mmmm cheesecake. 
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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Heh, welcome to winter in my home |
Originally Posted by Firemoth
On another note: I'm going to go find my overly baggy sweatshirt now...it's freakin cold in my house.
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I'm constantly dressed in one of half a dozen thick hoodies with a padded vest on top around the house. I think it looks pretty and it saves a bit on my power bill.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Not sure where I said leather chaps and scrubs were "the same thing." I'd suggest not leaping quite so far ahead of what's actually being said; you have me making all these wild statements that never actually came out of my keyboard.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Treating leather chaps and scrubs as the same thing is so ridiculous that you should be embarrassed at using it.
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There's no hidden meaning at all, the concept is very simple: people often use the pretext of a joke to say what they really think, in a socially-acceptable construct. Its a way to take the edge off of harsh or otherwise unacceptable statements.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That sounds very unfair since not everyone puts hidden meanings in their jokes.
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You mean other than the implied negative judgement on people that like cheesecake? I think that rather damning itself further I still challenge whether it on topic at all, since it really comes off as a stab against those who like cheesecake. you are setting a certain moral superiority in your tone. |
Originally Posted by Aneko
Look at my original statement again. Actually read it this time.
I said: "It's a shame that some people can't see a woman as feminine or attractive if she's conservatively dressed. I can." Why do you feel the need to challenge that? |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Speaking of what people find sexy, I feel it's about high time I threw a little spanner in the works. I posted this over at the All Things Art thread, but it's worth reposting here.
Speaking of cheesecakes, provocative outfits and alluring clothes, do you know what I find sexy? This: Yeah, I know it's revealing, but that's not the point, not to me, anyway. It's simply that this physique is both unusual and entirely too fitting for how the character acts. When last I brought it up, Golden Girl accused me of being gay, which I'm not to the extent that I'm aware, but who knows? My point is that "sexy" and "cheesecake" are not the same thing. To my eyes, "cheesecake" is not sexy because it has all of the intentional provocativeness with none of the style, while "sexy" can often be something that's not half-naked or all that curvy. Or curvy in not quite the expected way. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think it's a good sign for the CoH community that this thread isn't getting nearly the amount of traffic as the one asking for more equality
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Doom/Batman in 2012
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
The Resistance has boobs too, and better hair!
Can you name another veteran reward costume set that required four different rewards to collect it all? Boxing set? Sleek tech?
Well before you would get one vet reward every three months, now you get one every month.
The celestial set takes three tokens doesn't it? Making it an old school style three month reward.
Additionally the original plan was that players would get their vet reward tokens up front, as in if they paid for a six month sub, they'd get six tokens on the first day of that sub, however technical issues prevented.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.