Gender Equality?! I LIKE CHEESECAKE!
There's no hidden meaning at all, the concept is very simple: people often use the pretext of a joke to say what they really think, in a socially-acceptable construct. Its a way to take the edge off of harsh or otherwise unacceptable statements.
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Uh...you've not read much Me, have you?
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
When I post silly stuff like 'Silence I kill you!' it's often just being daft/fail humour.
It's when I'm dead serious you'd better start running >_>
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Also...she has done a couple of prison stints, participates in unisex fight clubs and gets off on a little gangbanging when she can fit it into her busy schedule.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
There's no hidden meaning at all, the concept is very simple: people often use the pretext of a joke to say what they really think, in a socially-acceptable construct. Its a way to take the edge off of harsh or otherwise unacceptable statements.
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I have an example, actually. My friends generally regard me as an honest person, so when I tell a friend of mine to, for instance, not leave money on the table when he walks away, he'll say "Yeah, but I know you wouldn't take it." And I'll respond with "Are you REALLY sure?" with a wink and a nudge.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Not sure where I said leather chaps and scrubs were "the same thing." I'd suggest not leaping quite so far ahead of what's actually being said; you have me making all these wild statements that never actually came out of my keyboard.
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No one wants all the choices to be scrubs, so to bring that up at all is a strawman. But when we turn it around, we don't have to exaggerate at all. You are making the same kind of statements that I would make if I were trying to unfairly categorize your position. You're an example Poe's Law applied to this argument, in that you lump anything that's not lacy underthings together with scrubs.
Whew!
Thanks for telling women how they should dress to please you. 'Cause there's not enough of that in the world, already. Oh, and if you don't care for this type of response, just chalk it up to women being hysterical or whatever derogatory term is in fashion this decade, and maybe buy 'em something. That'll shut 'em up. |
Let's see...
I say that I like seeing scantily clad females in various entertainment media.
Hmm... I do vaguely imply that I like Mrs. MOO to dress femininely. I also state outright that I wanted more scanty costume items to buy for my characters.
I don't see any place where I say anyone else should dress themselves or their characters according to my tastes. As a matter of fact, I say outright "You may not share my opinions or tastes."
I really don't understand your complaint, Tetsuko.
But that's what you are saying. You're equating gender neutral clothes with scrubs.
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What I meant by that is that I don't want to wear clothes that I wear every day, here in the game.
Mnay here seem to want to dress in CoX, just like they do in real life, all modest and proper-like. Different strokes and all that.... but I don't want to. This game is an escape for me, I'd rather dress like Desdemona than I do in real life - however there seems to be a movement afoot to get the developers to stop making all those naughty, woman-exploiting bits like the Gunslinger stuff, and make it all boring and gender-neutral. This is what worries me. I hate the idea of that.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
What I meant by that is that I don't want to wear clothes that I wear every day, here in the game.
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*edit*
And, no, that's not snark. I, myself, am wholly uninterested in "everyday" clothes. I'm much more interested in monster parts, power armour, military gear and so on - things people don't generally wear around the house or when they go out for a drink. The problem is that the "sexy" is starting to cut in on this. It's pretty hard to make an airtight space suit that shows skin.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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*bzzzt!* WRONG AGAIN!
What I meant by that is that I don't want to wear clothes that I wear every day, here in the game. |
Mnay here seem to want to dress in CoX, just like they do in real life, all modest and proper-like. Different strokes and all that.... but I don't want to. This game is an escape for me, I'd rather dress like Desdemona than I do in real life - however there seems to be a movement afoot to get the developers to stop making all those naughty, woman-exploiting bits like the Gunslinger stuff, and make it all boring and gender-neutral. This is what worries me. I hate the idea of that. |
People want non-real life clothes, just a different set of non-real life clothes than you want.
*bzzzt!* WRONG AGAIN!
What I meant by that is that I don't want to wear clothes that I wear every day, here in the game. Mnay here seem to want to dress in CoX, just like they do in real life, all modest and proper-like. Different strokes and all that.... but I don't want to. This game is an escape for me, I'd rather dress like Desdemona than I do in real life - however there seems to be a movement afoot to get the developers to stop making all those naughty, woman-exploiting bits like the Gunslinger stuff, and make it all boring and gender-neutral. This is what worries me. I hate the idea of that. |
Except when it suits your point, of course.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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At what point did I say that women should dress the way I want to dress my characters in City of Heroes?
Let's see... I say that I like seeing scantily clad females in various entertainment media. Hmm... I do vaguely imply that I like Mrs. MOO to dress femininely. I also state outright that I wanted more scanty costume items to buy for my characters. I don't see any place where I say anyone else should dress themselves or their characters according to my tastes. As a matter of fact, I say outright "You may not share my opinions or tastes." I really don't understand your complaint, Tetsuko. |
I'm COMPLETELY okay with that. It's a GOOD THING! In my mind, women are vastly more attractive than men. They need more clothes to accentuate that attractiveness. I like buying clothes for her. |
You were saying that you like women in scanty clothes and that to make you happy, they should wear things like that more - so long as they're pretty, mind you.
Does that help your understanding of my point?
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
You know, I think we're all talking at cross purposes here. Despite the arguing, I don't think we disagree all that much when it comes right down to it.
In my CoH wardrobe, I currently own a bottoms piece which consists entirely of a little bit of netting, and a heart covering my vagina. Honest. Not only this, but someone thought this was a nifty enough idea to remake it, with lovely textures and iridescent sheen to it! I have another couple of costume pieces (bottoms) which deliberately show off my butt crack. And one of those was remade as well, this time with a really nifty, beautiful glossy sheen.
Now, I want to say, right off the bat, that these are esthetically quite lovely items! Someone did a marvelous job on the remaking of these items in particular. I applaud their creators' talent and eye to be able to create such lovely items out of fairly plain wardrobe pieces. And I, too, like the OP has stated, like my female characters to look like females. Some are more feminine than others, but I think all of them show a bit of skin, and with the exception of a couple child characters, none of them wear clothes that could reasonably be worn on a male hero. My characters are female, and have no desire to dress in a masculine fashion. However, that said, there are just some outfits which do not speak "hero" to me. In fact, one speaks quite loudly "I am a bikini wax stencil!", but perhaps I digress.
Mr. MOO, it sounds like you adore your wife, and that is a wonderful thing to see. I can completely understand that you might like her to wear some lingerie, or sexy little something, for special nights at home. But am wondering how comfortable you would feel with Mrs. M, were she to go out shopping wearing one of the above items? Gentlemen, I presume many of you have wives... daughters... mothers. Would you enjoy it if these important women in your life be out doing their daily tasks with plumber's butt? Do you think your daughter should be wearing netting and a heart over her vagina to some special occasion... her prom, maybe? No? Really? But what if this is at the risk of lessening the viewing pleasure of all other men out there who really enjoy a little cheesecake? Should they cover up, or flaunt it, do you think?
I am guessing many of you would not feel comfortable with your mom in a latex cat suit with the top of her bottom showing. I know, I am taking liberties, as you have not answered directly. But I still think you may not be okay with this. Just guessing.
Yes, this is a fantasy game, and thus we can enjoy the "perks" of scanty dressing, without the negative real-life consequences such a wardrobe decision might bring. But at the same time, we do tend to have an affinity for our on-line characters. In some sense, they are an extension of us, even if it's a fantasy vision. We still identify.
If the tables were turned, how many men do you think would choose their male characters to wear mostly nothing but a beautifully textured, iridescent heart over their genitalia? DO any of you feel that nothing says super hero like showing the world your butt-crack? Not many, I am guessing again. I believe any men who would purchase such items to wear, would almost certainly be doing so for a joke - not as clothing for a "real" super hero to wear.
So, this is the situation we women (who are someone's mother, daughter, wife) face when looking at our CoX wardrobe selections. We, too, identify with our characters. I don't believe anyone has said outright or even hinted that the lovely scantily clad options should disappear. Who here wants to champion FEWER costume options? Not I, certainly! Probably not you, either. We are asking, could we please have some OTHER lovely options as well? Could we have items in fabulous textures to be similar in texture to other items, so we can mix and match, perhaps? Could we please have an outfit that says to the world "I AM A SUPER HERO" and not "my goodness, is it particularly breezy out here today??"
Thank you for reading this,
-Eeek (who, on top of being a super hero, is also a mom, a wife, and a daughter)
Gentlemen, I presume many of you have wives... daughters... mothers. Would you enjoy it if these important women in your life be out doing their daily tasks with plumber's butt? Do you think your daughter should be wearing netting and a heart over her vagina to some special occasion... her prom, maybe? No? Really? But what if this is at the risk of lessening the viewing pleasure of all other men out there who really enjoy a little cheesecake? Should they cover up, or flaunt it, do you think?
I am guessing many of you would not feel comfortable with your mom in a latex cat suit with the top of her bottom showing. I know, I am taking liberties, as you have not answered directly. But I still think you may not be okay with this. Just guessing. [snip] If the tables were turned, how many men do you think would choose their male characters to wear mostly nothing but a beautifully textured, iridescent heart over their genitalia? DO any of you feel that nothing says super hero like showing the world your butt-crack? Not many, I am guessing again. I believe any men who would purchase such items to wear, would almost certainly be doing so for a joke - not as clothing for a "real" super hero to wear. |
Also, my male characters would. I spent some time earlier crafting an exquisite cowboy stripper costume for my big burly mad scientist guy. For... uh, reasons. But it's not as a joke so much an ic thing.
In any case, I'm just arguing with your examples, since I'm one of the people in favour of less corset more cool jacket.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
Unless you were saying that women should have 'attractive' clothing options but not actually use them...
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In City of Heroes, we all share the same wardrobe with infinite copies of everything, so when I get new clothes, you get new clothes. Whether you would wear my baggy trousers isn't really interesting to me when I pick what to wear, we just happen to share the same hammerspace. So when I ask for costume pieces, I ask them for myself, for my own characters to wear, for my own costumes to use them. What you or "women" or anyone else chooses to wear doesn't enter into it.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think I might go hysterically blind, but if my mother or sister or grandma decided to wear the hearts costume or whatever, it's none of my dang business or anyone else's, for that matter.
Also, my male characters would. I spent some time earlier crafting an exquisite cowboy stripper costume for my big burly mad scientist guy. For... uh, reasons. But it's not as a joke so much an ic thing. In any case, I'm just arguing with your examples, since I'm one of the people in favour of less corset more cool jacket. |
PS I love to read your insightful, intellegent comments, Samuel. Your brother is wrong.
Anyone should be able to wear whatever they like, and I should have said that more clearly, rather than use examples, as I did. My purpose was to say we ALL like having a multitude of choices to get just the look we want to express our characters' personalities. My apologies for inadvertently implying that you, or your grandma, should have any fewer choices at all. This was the opposite of my intent.
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In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
Clothing for men is not about keeping up with the current trends; it's about details. Has the blazer been re-invented? No. But have the details regarding the nature of current trending blazers changed? Yes?
Is it seer-sucker or linen this season? Is it a wide lapel or narrow lapel? Is it a Drop 8 or a Drop 6 in Men's suiting?
Men's silhouettes rarely ever change but the details on them vary.
Women's fashion, however, constantly changes by shape, style, and silhouette. Women, therefore, require a greater array of clothing designs to be fashionable.
What I think is being asked for is an inclusion of a few more "unisex" pieces. At least when it comes to accessories.
Side note: High heels were originally designed for men, in France, so that the nobility would be "elevated" above the common rabble. The French then discovered that shoes were damn painful and gave them and then the prostitutes of the streets started wearing them as it made their legs more slender.*(citation needed)**
**(I could have totally made this up... who knows.)
Side note: High heels were originally designed for men, in France, so that the nobility would be "elevated" above the common rabble. The French then discovered that shoes were damn painful and gave them and then the prostitutes of the streets started wearing them as it made their legs more slender.*(citation needed)**
**(I could have totally made this up... who knows.) |
No promises on accuracy (although the article has many references), but this site has a fairly well written discussion of the topic: http://www.randomhistory.com/1-50/036heels.html
Gentlemen, I presume many of you have wives... daughters... mothers. Would you enjoy it if these important women in your life be out doing their daily tasks with plumber's butt? Do you think your daughter should be wearing netting and a heart over her vagina to some special occasion... her prom, maybe? No? Really?
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So, this is the situation we women (who are someone's mother, daughter, wife) face when looking at our CoX wardrobe selections. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.