Super Packs Update - 12/2/2011
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-12-02 18:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This does make me feel a bit better, but I'd still prefer if they were non-tradeable, but could be returned at an exchange rate.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I doubt its really going to have a significant negative effect, though, because fundamentally the ATIOs aren't powerful enough to be directly worth those cash values. What it costs the average player to acquire is not the same thing as its intrinsic redemption value. I would think there would be a higher incentive to sell purples for cash whether the paragon store sold them or not, and that doesn't really happen because there aren't enough buyers to make the problem significant.
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Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Other games have shown that it can work, and other games have shown that it can fail/create problems.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
City's always had to deal with RMT sellers. This isn't going to be some sudden sea change that will wreck our pristine game. And other games have shown that converting RL money to in-game assets can in fact work.
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Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Which means it's most likely not inherently evil in and of itself, and can likely be correlated to that game's developers' ability to maintain control and keep their act together. It's not like SWG was a paragon of the genre and the ability to turn RL money into in-game assets brought them down, after all. They had plenty of dysfunction in general.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Other games have shown that it can work, and other games have shown that it can fail/create problems.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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No, it's not. It's supposed to be an steady income stream to pay for the free players since they don't get sub fees from them.|
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
Psynder I respect that you're good and all at M:tG, maybe even better than me, but keep in mind that this isn't supposed to be the main draw to the game, it's supposed to be a perk for VIPs.
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There is no planet on which this is supposed to be (or even could possibly be) a perk for VIPs, as VIPs get no special benefit from the packs.
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Then all we need to do is consider how Architect Entertainment affected the game and its economy for a pessimistic scenario...
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Which means it's most likely not inherently evil in and of itself, and can likely be correlated to that game's developers' ability to maintain control and keep their act together.
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Premiums can't use Kheldian or SoA enhancements*.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Premiums can use ATIOs without a license. There is nothing in the pack a Premium cannot use.
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Tier 4 and below Premiums also can't use Mastermind or Controller enhancements.
Tier 3 and below can't even use the market to sell unusable or unwanted ATOs.
* Yes, they can buy access to the archetypes. But if you're willing to say, "You have to make a separate purchase to use this random thing you bought," you don't need to point out that ATOs can be used without a license.
I'm not particularly comfortable with the idea of things that can resold for inf being sold for real money/Paragon Points, but I like that better than the alternative of a player being stuck with a randomly-selected enhancement they have no use for.
Maybe the specific ATOs in the packs could be replaced by a token redeemable for an account-bound, level-scaling ATO of the player's choosing, but that has marketing implications. I don't know.
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Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.|
Originally Posted by Placta
Premiums can't use Kheldian or SoA enhancements*.
Tier 4 and below Premiums also can't use Mastermind or Controller enhancements. Tier 3 and below can't even use the market to sell unusable or unwanted ATOs. * Yes, they can buy access to the archetypes. But if you're willing to say, "You have to make a separate purchase to use this random thing you bought," you don't need to point out that ATOs can be used without a license. |
A Premium player can buy a Super Pack, open it to find a Brute ATIO, then put that ATIO in their Brute without requiring a license or VIPitude.
Edit: I'll back off on this, actually. I believe it to be true, but I can't find the redname post I swear I remember reading stating as much.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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If a premium player opens 7 packs and gets 7 mastermind ATIOs, what do they do?
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.
A Premium player can buy a Super Pack, open it to find a Brute ATIO, then put that ATIO in their Brute without requiring a license or VIPitude. Edit: I'll back off on this, actually. I believe it to be true, but I can't find the redname post I swear I remember reading stating as much. |
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Haven't got an answer for that, Clever Dan. I don't know how they're intended to work in practice. I'm going off what we were told in a post I remember reading but can't find now, which is why I'm backing off.
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
If a premium player opens 7 packs and gets 7 mastermind ATIOs, what do they do?
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I am pretty sure the IO sets in the market can be used w/o a license. This was covered in the beta where the Devs stated that players will always be able to continue to use things they have paid RL money for. It seems the super packs would fall under the same statement.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.
A Premium player can buy a Super Pack, open it to find a Brute ATIO, then put that ATIO in their Brute without requiring a license or VIPitude. Edit: I'll back off on this, actually. I believe it to be true, but I can't find the redname post I swear I remember reading stating as much. |
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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Didn't mean to be snarky but I see how you read it.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Haven't got an answer for that, Clever Dan. I don't know how they're intended to work in practice. I'm going off what we were told in a post I remember reading but can't find now, which is why I'm backing off.
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Honestly it's a question even I can't answer.
I had assumed these packs were going to be sold to VIPs only, because that just makes sense. no chance of anyone getting things they physically can't use. granted there'll be people who get ATIO's for classes they don't PLAY, but oh well.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.
A Premium player can buy a Super Pack, open it to find a Brute ATIO, then put that ATIO in their Brute without requiring a license or VIPitude. Edit: I'll back off on this, actually. I believe it to be true, but I can't find the redname post I swear I remember reading stating as much. |
While you're right about that, what if they get an ATE for an AT thay don't have access to?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Fair deal. I do think it's a little itchy to get an ATIO for a Mastermind and Paragon goes, "Oh, gosh, I guess you can't use that...unless, you know, you'd like to pay $15 to unlock Masterminds." Maybe that's what Paragon intends, maybe the odds get shifted if you don't have the ATs unlocked so that you can never pull a Mastermind IO, maybe you can access the AH to sell that one thing. Dunno for sure.
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
Didn't mean to be snarky but I see how you read it.
Honestly it's a question even I can't answer. |
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Random thought/suggestion regarding this: what if every "card" for ATOs also comes with some set number of Enhancement Converters so that a buyer could try to "trade back" what they got once or twice, perhaps? And, of course, if they did get one they wanted, that'd just be a little bit of value added to the pack?
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Fair deal. I do think it's a little itchy to get an ATIO for a Mastermind and Paragon goes, "Oh, gosh, I guess you can't use that...unless, you know, you'd like to pay $15 to unlock Masterminds." Maybe that's what Paragon intends, maybe the odds get shifted if you don't have the ATs unlocked so that you can never pull a Mastermind IO, maybe you can access the AH to sell that one thing. Dunno for sure.
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Nice thought, I'd already forgotten about the converters.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Random thought/suggestion regarding this: what if every "card" for ATOs also comes with some set number of Enhancement Converters so that a buyer could try to "trade back" what they got once or twice, perhaps? And, of course, if they did get one they wanted, that'd just be a little bit of value added to the pack?
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Well I'm liking that they're listening on this and making changes. I'l agree with the apparent consensus that the costume bits need another way to be aquired outside the packs. I look forward to further developments and the changes so far make it more likely I'll consider buying some now and then.
And a further idea: Since much of the angst I've seen over this comes from the notion they're trying to milk VIPs for more cash, how about a VIP-only perk for the packs? Freems and Preems get the pack as stated now, but VIPs get say, an extra bonus card? Like an extra bonus rare or something. Or a bonus card that is of theoretically any rarity but guaranteed to be a costume part, ATIO, or other desirable item.
Such a thing would help improve the value perception of the packs to VIPs and be an extra little nudge for non-VIPs to become such.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
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This... sounds awesome.|
Originally Posted by Back_Blast
Well I'm liking that they're listening on this and making changes. I'l agree with the apparent consensus that the costume bits need another way to be aquired outside the packs. I look forward to further developments and the changes so far make it more likely I'll consider buying some now and then.
And a further idea: Since much of the angst I've seen over this comes from the notion they're trying to milk VIPs for more cash, how about a VIP-only perk for the packs? Freems and Preems get the pack as stated now, but VIPs get say, an extra bonus card? Like an extra bonus rare or something. Or a bonus card that is of theoretically any rarity but guaranteed to be a costume part, ATIO, or other desirable item. Such a thing would help improve the value perception of the packs to VIPs and be an extra little nudge for non-VIPs to become such. |
I open a pack, I get more than somebody else? That's amazing. And so simple.
Hmmm... What if they made it where VIP players get access to better versions of costume parts, too? Like, the regular players get just the pre-tinted one, but the VIP players can de-pre-tint the costume parts?
It's so delightfully evil...
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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Wouldn't they just do a direct trade, outside of the Market, like PVPIOs?
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
If a premium player opens 7 packs and gets 7 mastermind ATIOs, what do they do?
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Random thought/suggestion regarding this: what if every "card" for ATOs also comes with some set number of Enhancement Converters so that a buyer could try to "trade back" what they got once or twice, perhaps? And, of course, if they did get one they wanted, that'd just be a little bit of value added to the pack?
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Nice thought, I'd already forgotten about the converters.
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"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
...They stated your chances of getting costume pieces was high within that tier (Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare) and once you got the piece, you couldn't get it again. In fact, it likely bumps UP the chances of getting the other pieces from that given tier.
Also, at 80 points a pack, you're getting a steal for the items inside (in terms of overall value).
So, heres a concern- I don't know if this has been addressed, but it was discovered a while back that since the Paragon Store is designed to not let us purchase items we already own, purchasing a single costume part from a set individually will then lock you out from purchasing the set, since you already own part of it.
So it's possible that by getting a costume part in one of these Super Packs, I'd "win" the ability to no longer purchase the costumes as a set if they were to be released for sale at some point?
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Sure, if I add up the point cost of everything in a Pack, it would probably come out to more than 80. But most of the things in the Packs everything but the Elemental Order pieces is, to me, junk. I'm not spending points on junk just because I get it at a discount. And if that means I can't get the costume pieces... so be it.|
Originally Posted by Issen
Also, at 80 points a pack, you're getting a steal for the items inside (in terms of overall value).
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Originally Posted by Heartbreaker
So, heres a concern- I don't know if this has been addressed, but it was discovered a while back that since the Paragon Store is designed to not let us purchase items we already own, purchasing a single costume part from a set individually will then lock you out from purchasing the set, since you already own part of it.
So it's possible that by getting a costume part in one of these Super Packs, I'd "win" the ability to no longer purchase the costumes as a set if they were to be released for sale at some point? |
Why is it that for every AT except Tankers, these are designed to be used in the powers of the primary power pool for the AT in question? But most Tanker primaries (only the sets with a damage aura, I would guess, are excepted) will not be able to slot the ATO set in any power in their primary power set.
It seems to me like a Tanker-specific set should go into a defensive power of some sort, right?
Save Paragon one more time! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,4877.0.html
Petition to end shutting down CoH:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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The Defender AT enhancements are the same.|
Originally Posted by Zybron1
Why is it that for every AT except Tankers, these are designed to be used in the powers of the primary power pool for the AT in question? But most Tanker primaries (only the sets with a damage aura, I would guess, are excepted) will not be able to slot the ATO set in any power in their primary power set.
It seems to me like a Tanker-specific set should go into a defensive power of some sort, right? |
Basically the enhancements are designed to be slotted in an ATs main damage powers, as Defenders and Tankers are the only two ATs with their main damage in their secondaries, they are the only two whose AT enhancements get slotted in their secondaries.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
I don't think that a fully functional ccg model is appropriate here because it IS supposed to be a thing that you have to be a VIP to really benefit from. That's what they're trying to do, they're trying to give VIPs something to really make the status symbol worthwhile.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.