Gender Equality in Costumes - A lack thereof

I'm not getting your point. People say they can't make a female gunslinger with the pack called 'Gunslinger' you show that they can make a gunslinger female with stuff that isn't in the pack.

That begs the question, what's the point of the pack then?

You know the pack that is called 'Gunslinger' and should add 'Gunslinger' parts to the game, for making such things as female gunslingers.

I think you mean to say, how many months has it been since a few got vocal about the "slutty" witch costume.

I loved the witch costume! I've used the top that shows absolutely no skin many times, and I've used the witch top that shows skin. I've used the witch bottoms that show no skin at all. And I've never used the witch bottoms that show skin.

I'd use the magic jacket more if I could use it with the fur lining, and I'd use the witch sleeve on quite a few jacket options if it was an option.

The boots were utter failure imo due to the feet looking so huge.

And I love the witch tight gloves (tho I have used the witch gloves with wings on a costume or two).

I got this one too about 6 years ago, it made me lol.

I tell you, it's rough. I want to boycott the entire pack out of solidarity with the wimminfolk, but the male costume pieces look really darn good. Haven't bought anything yet, though.

You're making sense. That's not allowed here.

I think I mean to say since the Dev's last commented on the whole issue of 'Can we have something that wouldn't appear with the word 'sexy' written before it on an ebay costume search'.

They said okay we won't do this in future.

Cue 'sexy' steampunk and now 'sexy' gunslinger, okay so the work is planned that far in ahead that the costume devs are at work on their new project while the set is in beta. Okay understanderable, but the idea that the work goes on so far ahead that they are still working on the 'sexy' design ethos from the magic pack beggers belief.

It's alright to say once again 'We'll look into it due to the feedback' but another thing when the next six months worth of costume packs are already being made with the 'sexy' gender locked design ethos.

Thank you.

Like I said: this seems like either a marketing error, or yet another way Megan Fox is destroying the 21st century.

well if it makes you feel better about your purchase I just purchased the pack and I was one of the big arguers against the disparity in the set in the feedback thread, but I really just wanted one thing which was a red name to come in and explain the choices made without a canned response .

I found a nice response from zwill in this thread and im going to take it at face value for now and see how it goes with the next few sets .

We know a knight set is coming down the pipeline , I figure I can wait and see if its another case of guys get to be a knight and girls get to be a sexy princess with a corset and thigh high princess boots .

And the pledge that they will (going forward) make non tinted versions of things they decide to pretint is icing on the proverbial cake for me .

so long story short as of this post im off to purchase the gunslinger/ soiled dove pack as I feel my voice has been heard and my concerns validated with a official response to the issue .

I can't and do not attempt to speak for everyone but for now im feeling pretty happy and have a wait and see attitude .

Weird. I never considered the Steampunk pack to be sexy.

The face is ugly (and considered as such by many in my experience). And outside of showing some skin, the pieces aren't all that sexy and look rather...well...not sexy. Now I love the jackets from the pack, but...meh on the over all "this is so sexy" comment about it.

It would be nice if Zwill could put our minds at rest, that the next set won't be another 'cool for male, sexy for female' sets, but one of the promissed gender equal costume sets.

Looking back at how many costumes we've received over the years...I think we'd get by w/ a delay.

The 'sexy' tag refers to well, go to a costume store or ebay and search for a costume of a particular theme. You'll no doubt find ones labelled 'sexy' they sort of adhere to the correct theme but are massivly more revealing.

As a short exercise, please go to Google Image search, first type in 'steampunk costume' and look at the pictures that come up, then type 'sexy steampunk costume' note how the second search is much closer to the set we recived.

Heck one of the first pics I saw had the exact jacket and half corset/bra that we get in game.

I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, but at this point in the thread I'd imagine that the people who are going to rationally explain that they're unhappy and why have already spoken. The amount of expressed anger seems a bit disproportionate to the issue, and most of the posts aren't addressing issues with the set so much as rehashing the same posts over and over and over with no change in the argument behind them.

Really, I wanted to put the picture up hours ago when there was page after page of "why couldn't this be in the pack?!" but wasn't able to get to a computer that had it installed until a few minutes before I posted.



And I already said that was a problem with the pack, but you seem to ignore those comments because I was addressing a different issue with a separate post. The point of the costume I posted is that you don't have to buy it and you can still make a gunslinger outfit like the one shown - something that several pages back was claimed as impossible. If that makes the entire pack pointless to you, then congratulations - you get to save points. If you like the pieces, buy them. If you don't, don't. But a large number of the complaints are "I want to make <this> and this pack doesn't let me" when you already can without the pack, mixed in with comments about how "sexy costumes are ruining the game!"

There has already been a redname reply to this thread basically saying, "we get it, you're not happy." That's about all you're going to get, so at this point just move on and stop specifically looking for something to be miserable about.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

The sample costume is a fine approximation. You can also make one just as good for the male costume without the pack. I don't recall the specific post, but I would concur that it isn't 'impossible', but if it was a comment on making something more 'authentic' as female gunslinger, then the intent of their statement may have been valid. Otherwise, then even the male options in the current pack are completely superfluous as clearly, we already had all the options we needed.

I'd like to see more options - I loved one of the images that I felt was completely unauthentic but looked really nice that someone else linked to and said that I would've expected something like that in the set. You can't make that one in the costume creator and I'd like it as an option, but people latched on to the image from The Quick and the Dead, and that one you can do fairly easily. But we're not going to get it anytime soon, which has already been explained, and while they may (read: probably) need to revise their time management on the asset pipeline if they're that far back that feedback can't be incorporated before it goes live, that's something that's also going to take a while to do and honestly isn't strictly limited to art assets. But that's also a problem of them trying to push things out at a rate of "at least one new thing in the market per week" - and if people don't like what's out that week then you get threads like this one, and if they slow down and try to fix issues that are brought up and cause release delays you have threads about "why isn't there anything new this week?!" They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

The posts I was trying to rebut with the image were mostly about how people can't make reasonable gunslinger outfits for women because of what's in the pack. Some of the items could work, most of them don't - but that has no bearing on the fact that it's optional and the amount of anger over it seemed a bit excessive.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Accepted. I didn't exactly contribute to de-escalation and probably could have been more diplomatic; that said, I still stand by my words, as I'm sure you do.

It was just a weird tactic that I felt was taking the thread in a completely different direction. I think it's a topic worth discussing, and I'd be happy to take part in that thread, but I don't think it belongs here.

That said, I did miss that you were responding to that particular line of discussion, so I will apologize for getting on your case for it. I should have been getting on the case of everyone who was involved in that line, because it really does distract from this particular issue - one on which there is some involvement from the community team, with vague promises and all.

To sum up - sorry for jumping on you alone. Still, that'd be an interesting discussion - for another thread.

Call it moral, call it evaluative, call it unfair to creators. I don't care. If something is egregious enough to deserve having attention called to it, I will.

If you want me to pay money for a pack that says "men can be awesome Weird West gunfighters! And women can be sex workers!" I am absolutely allowed to point out that it's a double standard, that it explicitly sexualizes female avatars and can't be honestly called a gunslinger pack because it doesn't give female avatars a gunslinging option.

I am not a prude - I have no objection to sexy costumes. I can and will object to *only* sexy costumes being made available for female avatars. I didn't like it in the Wedding Pack, in the Magic Pack, or in the Steampunk Pack. If Paragon had only included a cool jacket and possibly a hat for female avatars, I would have been satisfied.

I don't have to give the benefit of the doubt for good intentions. All I'm worried about is results, and I don't feel there's much room for interpretation here.

No.

What you will get from me is pointing out a fact - that what that person said or did or created is sexist, and this is why.

Only with further communication and a pattern of behavior will I call a person sexist, and even then I tend to reserve that judgement for a time. But I have absolutely no qualms about pointing out that actions are sexist, and I feel no need to approach it gingerly.

Most of the time, I grant the benefit of the doubt, in the "Oh, hey, I didn't realize it could be taken like that" sense. And if any developer/creator/poster wants to engage in a debate on the question, I'm more than happy to oblige.

Get the star belt for your character. And I assure you, I will never call your character a prostitute.

Fair enough.

Speaking for myself, it was aggressive disappointment rather than anger. I made a female DP the day the set came out and I've been making variations of tech armored, solider, and an evening out outfit, holding a costume slot for the gunslinger someday. I went and filled that slot today with another armored tech look.

I have a male DP parked somewhere, he isn't getting anything out of the pack either. I am that disappointed with this output. I'll save my points for something else.

On the plus side, I am hopeful for future sets based on Zwill's comments.

I used a mixed bag from the Valkyrie, Roman, and Witch sets for my "armored" character, shown here:


The Roman chest makes it work a lot better than the bulkier Valkyrie ones did, so it may work for what you want until you get a better idea of what's actually in the Knight pack.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

You can speak for me. Much more eloquent than I.

It shouldn't really be called a gunslinger pack because the female costume set can't really be genuinely called a gunslinger costume. That's as far as one should go. Going farther and calling the other costume "sex worker" is, whether you intend it or not, an insult to the people who saw that costume as anything other than that, and thought that while it was not a gunslinger costume, it was a nice non-prostitute costume option besides. Its an unnecessary slam, when its not relevant to whether the devs genuinely delivered on their gunslinger pack to both (character) genders.

You're leaving no wiggle room here for the devs, so you shouldn't say things that demand people extend wiggle room to you to make a point. Sticking to the area there seems to be almost universal agreement upon, namely that the gunslinger pack clearly did not deliver a gunslinger option for female characters, sends a clearer message than arguing over whether the actual delivered option is sexist, for which there isn't overwhelming agreement.

Put it another way: I would have been just as disappointed if the female option was a fully clothed and covered western school teacher. The issue is not that the option is or is not sexy, but rather that it is not a gunslinger.