Maelstrom's Pistol Craftable Costume Recipe

My general problem with this, and it's one I've seen shared by others, is that costume parts and concepts are often highly intertwined. People end up not using the Roman costume pieces, for example, because they can't create a character to whom those pieces would be appropriate. Hence, no matter how nice the ITF unlockables may be, they are less desirable because you have to go through more than half the game to get them.

On the one hand, what they're doing with the Maelstrom pistols is a step in the right direction, because it allows people to have the guns unlocked by the time they step out of the tutorial, essentially. It even allows people to have them without having to run any of the trials, since they're a recipe, rather than an account unlock.

On the other hand, there are still a couple problems with the execution. First is the "lolMaelstrom" effect, as the guns are extremely generic looking, and belonging to probably the biggest joke of a villain in the game. So basically, while they have fixed the problem of them being hard to get, allowing people to apply them in any concept, they don't have the unique look of the Roman sets, or the feeling of "special achievement" of the Ascension armor that makes them desirable.

The other problem, as pointed out, is that even if the concept is a step in the right direction, it's still a horribly transparent attempt to make people grind the TPN raid. Setting the bar too high means that even the people who might have been interested lose interest. Requiring the recipe to be purchased twice is simply silly. It doesn't really reflect the "picking up Maelstrom's gun" concept, because you're building the gun! This is just made worse because of problem #1. The guns aren't all that desirable in the first place, so the fact that so many extra hoops and costs are associated with them makes them even less desirable.

That's why it's a bad idea. We don't need a silly excuse for people to brag.

Welcome to 2004 and the "Capes at 20" thread. Interestingly enough, Jack Emmert "joked" with the community that this was a dead horse shortly after I2, somewhere in 2004. It's 2011 now, and it's still not dead, so I guess the joke's on him.

There are plenty of "elite status" symbols, not least of which being character titles and their colours, as well as name titles. As the many jerks who run around as "Helper!" and "Help Meee!" just because it changes their name colour will attest, that's a popular option for showing off. There are also the powers themselves. Anyone using a Judgement power or summoning a Lore pet is obvious as an Incarnate.

The reason I don't want costumes to be loot is... Well, I hate loot as a concept, but beyond that... The reason is you end up putting weight on a costume piece that it doesn't really deserve. For the longest time, the only way to have a witch hat (an ugly witch hat that looked like a flower) was to run a specific TF. The Witch Hat is, therefore, more laborious to get than other costume pieces, but does that make it better? Well... It does and it doesn't. If you just want to show off, it is, but it still looks ugly.

My point is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and, more than anything else, depends on what a character concept requires. For instance, if I want to make a medieval Eurpean knight, I can, because the Medieval set is and has always been free. If I want to make a samurai, however, I have to wait... Years? I forget what Tier of Paragon Reward the Samurai Armour is in. If I want to make a Roman soldier, it's free, but the character has to be something else until level 35, and then I have to run a Task Force on top of that. Is a samurai more expensive? Is a Roman soldier more "elite?" Does medieval Europe just suck? No, not really. No to all three. There's no reason why a samurai set or a Roman set would cost more than a medieval one other than random whim.

Locking costume pieces behind unlocks is a bad idea because costume pieces cannot be graded from best to worst. No, not even based on their age or level of detailing. Since Going Rogue, we've gotten a lot of very cool shoulder pieces, and one could postulate that they are "better" than what came before them, but that's not necessarily the case. All the clockwork shoulders are just plain old bad, the IDF shoulders are barely even there, and my all-time favourite set remains, to this day, the Medieval ones. I just like their shape, I like their size and I like that they're not reflective. Never was a fan of the new reflective tech, to be honest. It looks too much like glass.

What you get is "status" pieces that aren't really all that good. You can either wear a piece which clashes with your costume but demonstrates your "status," at which point I'll probably laugh at you on my side of the screen, or you can wear a "status" piece that happens complement your costume, at which point I will be far more impressed at your ability to put together a cool costume than your willingness to waste hundreds of hours of your life (which isn't something to brag about in the first place). If a costume piece makes my costume better, then it makes my costume better whether the piece is locked or not. In fact, the harder a piece is to unlock, the less likely I am to care about it, because it's worth less the more it costs, ESPECIALLY when its value to my costume is minimal at best.

Take the Ascension set, for example. It's not a bad set by any stretch, but neither is it all that interesting. The boots and gloves are kind of cool, but the rest is "meh." And it's all "bah" because I can't have it until level 50, by which point I've already settled on my character's look and no longer care.

The bottom line is that there are plenty of ways to be elitist if that's your intent, and there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, that's pretty much the only reason badges exist. Costume items aren't that.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Actually I was being sarcastic about the current model of the game.

I think its one thing to gate a bunch of random costume options behind high empyrean merits costs that have nothing to do with the trials at all. But its another thing to gate Maelstrom's pistols behind the iTrial that focuses on defeating him specifically. I would have been totally fine with the devs creating *only* the empyrean merit unlock after successful completion. Adding the recipe adds something more than what needs to be there: its not a "punishment."

Pretty much every reward that has any value attached to the trials can be interpreted as a way to force the players to grind them. But that extreme viewpoint is not interesting, because it offers no practical game design guidance. "Just don't gate anything unless I consider it trivial and make all rewards accessible by running content once and then let players decide what to run based purely on the fun of it with no structural incentive system" is not practical game design guidance.

yes!!!!!

It's a hyperbole to point out how they should forego whatever sort of "realism" angle they're going for and stick to "fun." Having to unlock the pistol twice is not fun for anyone.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

That's a good point... Maybe it's set up this way for compatibility with a Sword and Pistol assault set for Dominators. If so then I totally support the change, I want a Sword and Pistol Dominator.

And once you summon them all onto the field you form Tyrant, and immediately wipe out all of your opponent's life points.

It's better than practical - it's beautiful and elegant.

No, you have to get beaten to within an inch of your life first.

"...never win a battle till you pull the blazing sword out...."

That's not what I said, however, nor is it what I meant, were we to read between the lines. In general, tying rewards to a system when said rewards have nothing in the slightest to do with the system is a form of gating. Running Trials to get Incarnate powers I get. There's a storyline reason for it and there's even a game design reason for it. I don't like the tasks, but the rewards make sense for said tasks.

Yes, I get that Maelstrom's pistol is tied to Maelstrom himself, but it's not stronger than the pistols we use, therefore it is just a souvenir. We've defeated Maelstrom many times before. In fact, I met him in a 10-15 mission and kicked his *** right quick. He didn't drop a gun for me to pick up then. If we go by what "makes sense," then Maelstrom's pistols should be obtainable from Maelstrom every time he shows up, yet they aren't. They are only obtainable if you defeat him in that one specific task which just happens to require people to be goaded into it.

I'm also not sure if you're entirely objective by rejecting my viewpoint so completely while simultaneously neglecting the very real, very likely possibility that certain rewards ARE indeed added for no reason other than to "encourage" people to run Incarnate Trials for the terrible fear that if enough stop doing them, the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

Furthermore, this form of gating is not new. Wing and Boot recipes have existed since the Inventions system was introduced, and while I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure someone with a red name explained that those were seen as incentive to use the, or at least "get into" the Inventions and Market systems. As I see it, it's a very obvious "carrot on a stick," a reward designed not because it makes sense for the task, but specifically to "encourage" people who have no interest in the task to run it anyway, thus providing enough population density to the people who do want it.

I'm sure you'll recall pre-I13 suggestions to put even stronger PvE rewards in PvP zones so as to increase traffic and, by some inference, enhance the PvP experience. Then as now, I pointed out that this does not bring more players to PvP with in the zones, but rather serves only to bring in people interested in AVOIDING PvP in there. In much the same way, adding rewards strongly divergent from the core elements of certain content only serves to bring in people who are not interested in the content, but are interested only in the reward.

Put another way: You can get me to run team content against my will, but I will complain the entire time I'm doing it.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Ok, then lets do this step by step. Step one first: you've said "The reason I don't want costumes to be loot is... Well, I hate loot as a concept, but beyond that... The reason is you end up putting weight on a costume piece that it doesn't really deserve." And you've extended this all the way to the signature appearance of a named NPC's unique weapons. To my mind, that's tantamount to saying "never" because if *any* costume gating is acceptable, then signature appearance of named NPCs would be the far extreme end. If that's not acceptable, nothing is.

Correct me if I'm wrong: where besides here is costume gating acceptable? Or is it, as I've interpreted your position, always unacceptable.

My desire is to never see costumes gated ever at all, that much is true, and this is something I can't change any more than that I like salty foods. I do understand that signature pieces are treated differently, however. For years, the team has outright refused to enable those for players, so for them to enable these costumes at all, I can see them having to be gated in some way. I don't like costume gating, but I understand it for signature pieces.

Why I highly dislike in THIS case is that the costume piece has been turned into rare loot and transformed into a hook to get people to run raids. Whether or not costume gating is acceptable is sideways of HOW they get gated, and in this case, Maelstrom's Pistols are gated so as to encourage raid grind. Even when I accept costume gating a being logical, I still object to it being turned into loot and turned into a grind.

Objectively speaking, what reason is there to make this a rare drop instead of a guaranteed drop, at least for one person who doesn't have it, and what reason is there to make people have to earn it twice? What, more specifically, aside from serving as bait to goad people into rerunning the new raid over and over again? THAT is what I object against.

Gating signature pieces kind of goes with the territory. I don't like it, but I accept it. Turning them into a loot grind, on the other hand, I cannot accept.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

So in other words, if we DO get the recipe drop we can give it to a level 1 Dual Pistols/Thugs character, otherwise it's in the same league as the Ascension Armor?

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

random thing that has bothered me since Nightstar's redesign...why does she have blades SHE DOESN'T EVEN USE!?