GUI windows keep resetting after 11/10/11 patch
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2011-11-10 24:46 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
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Honestly, is that sentence meant to be in English? I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say. "The West"? What?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
For something that requires an entirely new build, it's very difficult to put on the brakes on support for every product in the West that NCsoft supports.
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"Require a new build"? Huh? Did you just imply a non-released bug could not be fixed?
You need to explain yourself better.
Seriously, Zwill. We all love you, you've got the crappiest job - wielding the Player Crowd Control powerset and dancing around like a rodeo clown to distract us from the big bad. But this is an unacceptable build push. And the fact that the servers DO get taken down for exploit hotfixes, and there IS a fix for this existent, makes it completely unacceptable that it hasn't been hotfixed yet. Let alone that it made it live when it's been bugged over and over on Test.
I love this game, but this is something that makes it unplayable. Literally unplayable. When I have to fix my UI not just every time I log in, but when I zone? No. I won't do it.
This is a bad time for Paragon to have pushed something THIS effed up to the live servers. December's coming quick. If people decide to drop their subs now, they won't be back for a couple months at least because there's other new stuff coming out they can try out while this game scrambles to fix something GAME BREAKING that they deliberately pushed live.
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... yeah. |
Originally Posted by rsclark
Honestly, is that sentence meant to be in English? I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say. "The West"? What?
"Require a new build"? Huh? Did you just imply a non-released bug could not be fixed? You need to explain yourself better. |
If we were looking at a launcher issue - something that would (to the way I read it) affect "every product in the West (read: non-Korea) NCSoft supports" - something that screwed up Lineage, COH, GW and Aion - that would make sense.
I'm not sure how saying "This patch is not ready to go live, do not release it" would affect any *other* game NC supports. Would it keep Abyss raids from happening in Aion? Keep Lineage players from... um... doing whatever they do?
The statement makes no sense to me.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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Many, most, changes we make require us to make an entirely new build (i.e. version) of the game. These builds require hours to compile here at Paragon, many more hours to transfer to Austin (we can't just email them), and even more hours on the Ops side to actually apply to the live server and then QA Smoke test. This process has to be planned out well in advance, quite literally weeks, and when we have to implement an immediate build, it puts the breaks on for every other thing surrounding it. |
Originally Posted by rsclark
Honestly, is that sentence meant to be in English? I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say. "The West"? What?
"Require a new build"? Huh? Did you just imply a non-released bug could not be fixed? You need to explain yourself better. |
This applies to all build publishes, not just what you see on live servers.
That being said, we will possibly have a build tomorrow to address this, and other, issues which we believe warrant immediate resolution.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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If players are reporting critical bugs that aren't fixed prior to build finalization, I would think that at the least the OCR team would be informed so that they aren't learning about the (already documented) problem from players after publish.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
The OCR team doesn't scrub for bugs in Beta. That's QA. They don't currently have anyone who posts acknowledgment of bugs during beta. I'll discuss this with the QA managers and see if we can change that.
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There's definitely a communications problem here.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Well, UI issues like this are enough for me to take a break and not stress about getting on tonight. Away for a few days now - hopefully this'll be patched when I can get back on next week!
I'll .... read a book! *gasp*
@JohnP - Victory
I too am of the opinion this is a very poor move. If the procedures allow for a known and very disruptive bug to go to live, then those procedures need to be changed. At the very least, the publish should have been delayed until this was fixed.
Now, some aid to deal with this glaring issue. As others have mentioned, you can save and load GUI's via the Options menu. You can also use the "/wdw_load" and "/wdw_save" commands. The file that is saved & loaded, regardless of which method used, is called, "wdw.txt" and is stored in the CoH base directory.
There are some long-standing issues with saving & loading GUI's, in that some elements don't quite save/load quite right - the Inspiration Tray is the worst offender. Sometimes those issus can be fixed by manually tweaking the wdw.txt file (like the aforementioned ITray), while others are the result of faulty code in the loading process and can't be manually tweaked.
If you don't already have a GUI set-up, take a few minutes to save one. It'll save a lot of time fixing your GUI until this travesty of a bug is fixed.
PS: And if you're really bored, you can dig-into the wdw.txt file and change the GUI beyond what you can easily do in-game. Here's a screenshot of a WIP of my GUI that I recently started tweaking again.
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So essentially, assuming all new builds require a long time to compile and plan out, are we to assume that the build tomorrow to address this issue would also have taken a while to compile and plan?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
...That being said, we will possibly have a build tomorrow to address this, and other, issues which we believe warrant immediate resolution.
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And if so, are we also therefore to assume the GUI issue was known about at least long enough ago that it really should have been mentioned in the KNOWN ISSUES paragraph of the patch notes for the build which went live today?
Because it wasn't...
Gawd, who'd want to have to deal with Catch 22s like that as part of their daily job? Especially while being glared at by a belligerent crowd of angry torch-waving subscribers.
Zwill, you're a brave man indeed!
It takes weeks to send a build through the process but PS'll have a new fixed build ready to go live by tomorrow? That doesn't make any sense. Unless of course you were relying on player feedback to persuade the higher ups let you prioritize the UI fix?
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Thats all just peachy keen, heres what you do. DONT publish huge bugs that are KNOWN and NOT fixed.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Build schedules are a very tricky thing. We're not able to just pop code in and send it over to be published the same day. Usually we have to send builds for publishing at least a week in advance.
The ops team supports all NCsoft products, not just CoH. This requires rigorous scheduling which has to be adhered to. |
This patch was a joke and had no business being published in the state it was in
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
many more hours to transfer to Austin (we can't just email them), and even more hours on the Ops side to actually apply to the live server and then QA Smoke test. This process has to be planned out well in advance, quite literally weeks,
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Well that's a little more understandable the way you describe it, but still pretty sucky for us customers. I'm hoping there's a way to convey to customer dissatisfaction to NC Soft and get them to make a more flexible process.
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I know you're not responsible for this Zwill, you're just the messenger.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Many, most, changes we make require us to make an entirely new build (i.e. version) of the game. These builds require hours to compile here at Paragon, many more hours to transfer to Austin (we can't just email them), and even more hours on the Ops side to actually apply to the live server and then QA Smoke test. This process has to be planned out well in advance, quite literally weeks, and when we have to implement an immediate build, it puts the breaks on for every other thing surrounding it.
This applies to all build publishes, not just what you see on live servers. That being said, we will possibly have a build tomorrow to address this, and other, issues which we believe warrant immediate resolution. |
However... brain missed a cycle and I had to re-read that... are you saying that the programming is done at a completely separate site from where the servers are stationed? Is the compiled code physically transferred from site A to B (You said the code can't just be e-mailed), or is it still electronically transferred, but the ENTIRE codebase is transferred every time? I can't pretend to know how things are set-up there, but it sounds terribly inefficient, and I can easily think of several ways to improve the efficiency of the system.
But hey, at least the Pay2Win store is working, right?
You guys do know there's a very hyped, very well funded MMO on the horizon? Now is a very bad time to be making these sorts of epic mistakes.
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This was my thinking too, and it seems NC have just 1 Ops and QA team to cover all their games publishes/live tests - probably 2 people in total :/
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Originally Posted by LordAethar
I know you're not responsible for this Zwill, you're just the messenger.
However... brain missed a cycle and I had to re-read that... are you saying that the programming is done at a completely separate site from where the servers are stationed? Is the compiled code physically transferred from site A to B (You said the code can't just be e-mailed), or is it still electronically transferred, but the ENTIRE codebase is transferred every time? I can't pretend to know how things are set-up there, but it sounds terribly inefficient, and I can easily think of several ways to improve the efficiency of the system. |
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
Somehow, I can't help but think that if Korea hadn't laid off a good portion of the US workforce last month, the forums, QA, and other things would be better.
There again, we've had the forum logout bug for a very long time, so perhaps not.
To echo what others have said, I'm sorry you have to bear the brunt of the justified outrage on this, Zwill, given that this is none of your doing. But, while your answers all explain why this is not something that's quick to fix, none explains why NCSoft couldn't have simply refrained from publishing a fix that was known to break something this serious. How does NOT releasing code till it actually works take any time at all? It was already decided not to release the new iTrial; why not just hold the entire release till it wouldn't break our UIs every time we zoned?
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Is it in NC Soft and/or Paragon Studios interests to publish broken content? Knowing that the bug was out there why would you (Not Zwill but NC Soft/Paragon Studios) continue to take servers down for a "X" amount of downtime for a publish? Only to later have "Y" amount of downtime to fix a prior known issue is not good business. You are not only costing yourselves more hours to fix the issue ASAP but ruining your loyal customer base. It's understandable that in the MMO market today you want to get as much content out to please your customers to make us want to give you our monies. If you need to push back the release of something until it is proper and ready to roll then take your time. Speaking only for myself I would rather be paying for a well tested and solid product than a haphazardly put together product full of bugs. In the future take your time, since most people weren't expecting anything today no one would of been let down if it was pushed back a week.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Many, most, changes we make require us to make an entirely new build (i.e. version) of the game. These builds require hours to compile here at Paragon, many more hours to transfer to Austin (we can't just email them), and even more hours on the Ops side to actually apply to the live server and then QA Smoke test. This process has to be planned out well in advance, quite literally weeks, and when we have to implement an immediate build, it puts the breaks on for every other thing surrounding it.
This applies to all build publishes, not just what you see on live servers. That being said, we will possibly have a build tomorrow to address this, and other, issues which we believe warrant immediate resolution. |
I PL myself! YAY
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Exactly!|
Originally Posted by Mr_Eian
since most people weren't expecting anything today no one would of been let down if it was pushed back a week.
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Even at companies I have worked at with the blackest-hearted Marketing directors, had I gone ahead and published a release with a bug this size when it had already been reported, I would have been seriously disciplined at the least.
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You could eat olive loaf!
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Originally Posted by JohnP_NA
I'll .... read a book! *gasp*
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Presumably because NCSoft is still looking for ways to make CoH "go away".
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Originally Posted by Mr_Eian
Knowing that the bug was out there why would you (Not Zwill but NC Soft/Paragon Studios) continue to take servers down for a "X" amount of downtime for a publish? Only to later have "Y" amount of downtime to fix a prior known issue is not good business.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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I know its the red-headed stepchild but come on! If it weren't for CoH Positron would probably be a much more slender man.|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Presumably because NCSoft is still looking for ways to make CoH "go away".
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In all seriousness though, if NC wants City of Heroes gone it wouldn't be that hard for them. By allowing these updates/issues to be published they are only hurting there reputation. After I get fed up enough with CoH I will never subscribe to anything NC Soft makes. With upcoming games NC Soft and Paragon Studios both need to be concerned with losing customers to superior product and service.
I PL myself! YAY
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There is always a very well funded, well hyped, MMO on the horizon. That's pretty irrelevant, based on all past examples. |
Originally Posted by Warlocc2
But hey, at least the Pay2Win store is working, right?
You guys do know there's a very hyped, very well funded MMO on the horizon? Now is a very bad time to be making these sorts of epic mistakes. |
Now, disinterest, and apathy on the part of the players, now that'll kill an MMO. And issues like this, with such promise, to go this pear-shaped, when so much of this should have been avoidable is the way to generate such feelings on the part of the players.
Am I crying 'DOOM.' No, but this issue really needs to be an exception, not the new rule..
While you Devs are there nose deep in GUI fixing, can you please punch the Opacity Bug in the face, and also The bug that keeps redocking my undocked windows back to their parent windows nearly every time I zone, oh and this one odd bug that moves my mission window from undocked top-center of screen to top left of screen nearly every time I zone and once every now and then it goes one step further and just redocks it to it's parent window just to throw me.
The Opacity bug is a real show stopper for me, I go blind trying to see anything in the default 53% opacity setting. I need mine to be at 90% or higher and remain there, otherwise I can't see a darned thing in them. Having to go into options to adjust it every time I zone is a frustrating nightmare of epic proportions! *shakes fist* (added the fist shaking for extra emphasis 
)
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
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