City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

15 EMP Merits to unlock the New Incarnates

AresSupreme

By AresSupreme,
Posted on: 2011-10-24 11:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
On a slightly related note, Second Measure posted this evening that there would be more info on the solo Incarnate path at the Player Summit next month.
Link please.

 

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Originally Posted by The_Larker View Post
Link please.

*looks at dev digest*

Im just guessing here

@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

 

Posted

Ran a easy 30 minute Keyes Trial on Virtue last night. Been a couple months since I had ran it so I am unsure what all the complaining about the trial is about. 2 e-merits for such a short time invested. We were so successful we ran a UG afterwards. Not as quick but went breezed through it.

If the Devs actually read these threads, it is not as bad as some like to make it out to be.

Paragonian Knights
Justice Company

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Grae Knight View Post
Ran a easy 30 minute Keyes Trial on Virtue last night. Been a couple months since I had ran it so I am unsure what all the complaining about the trial is about. 2 e-merits for such a short time invested. We were so successful we ran a UG afterwards. Not as quick but went breezed through it.

If the Devs actually read these threads, it is not as bad as some like to make it out to be.
30m? Nice.

From Positron's post, I'm pretty sure the devs realize the big problem with Keyes is more that the population doesn't want to put it on farm status.

Let's Dance!

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
I do not find Keyes fun. There is not enough room in this post, or enough uncensored words, to properly express how much I HATE Keyes. I haven't even bothered to run the UG, simply because it sounds like it follows in the same vein.
I play mostly squishes on trials and Tfs because debuffs are usually more in demand than any of my scrappers. After a few runs of getting one shotted and trying to keep up with other players running around the map I gave up on running it.

I have never played the UG for the exact same reason you listed.

Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?

Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grae Knight View Post
Ran a easy 30 minute Keyes Trial on Virtue last night. Been a couple months since I had ran it so I am unsure what all the complaining about the trial is about. 2 e-merits for such a short time invested. We were so successful we ran a UG afterwards. Not as quick but went breezed through it.

If the Devs actually read these threads, it is not as bad as some like to make it out to be.
The way I see it.

You ran Keyes in 30 minutes but I'm sure a majority if not almost all of them were level shifted or had a few incarnate powers already. That's a very different experience than you would have of you ran it with Alpha only or no incarnate power unlocked toons. By removing the E merits from BaF/Lambda, players would flock to Keyes and UG. When ill equipped incarnates or toons without Alpha want to run a trial they will have to run whatever trial has the bodies. I've been on BaFs with such teams and they weren't a walk in the park, I can't only imagine attempting a run at Keyes with such a team makeup.

Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?

Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575

 

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Now people begin to see why folks like me have opted to ignore everything after the Alpha slot.

Lucy grab that football and hold it for Charlie Brown will you? They are pulling away the benefit everytime you nearly reach the ball. Fool me once shame on me - fool me twice shame on you. They never fooled me once.

 

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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
"Easy and familiar" often equals "fun." Not always, but often.

Every time I try to form an UG trial, people line up for it. This is not a hated trial. But no incentive exists in this world to make me run Keyes, so I will wish the developers luck with this tactic.... because its like the Green Lantern trying to use his ring on a yellow object.... no impact. But even a failed UG trial can be immensely profitable.

Carrot vs. stick will not make me run Keyes. Bet i'm not alone.

It's not fun. It is "easier & fast" though.

Personally, I far prefer the pre-incarnate high level TFs to the iTrials. But because the iTrials give the rewards they are what gets run. It's tough to even run a WST these days.

But don't confuse fun with grind.

I'm hoping that we're coming towards the conclusion of "end game" and that Posi will soon be distracted by a new shiny to work on that's a lot better than the current post-GR content.


"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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Originally Posted by reiella View Post
30m? Nice.

From Positron's post, I'm pretty sure the devs realize the big problem with Keyes is more that the population doesn't want to put it on farm status.
I can not take the credit, was a good league that listened.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
The way I see it.

You ran Keyes in 30 minutes but I'm sure a majority if not almost all of them were level shifted or had a few incarnate powers already. That's a very different experience than you would have of you ran it with Alpha only or no incarnate power unlocked toons. By removing the E merits from BaF/Lambda, players would flock to Keyes and UG. When ill equipped incarnates or toons without Alpha want to run a trial they will have to run whatever trial has the bodies. I've been on BaFs with such teams and they weren't a walk in the park, I can't only imagine attempting a run at Keyes with such a team makeup.
I am unsure if all 24 were +3, I know I was. At least 3 were not +3 since they unlocked 2 incarnate slots during the trial. Personally, I would avoid trials before slotting my Alpha. It is easy to get shards to do that.

One thing I do notice, if more people would learn to form and lead trials then there would be plenty of BAFs and Lambda. I have been T4 in all slots (to include 3 tier 4 Lore pets and 5 Tier 3) for a long time and I still run trials whenever I can. iXp and e-merits are not the motivation. Many players like the large raid environment just like myself.

Paragonian Knights
Justice Company

 

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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades View Post
Lucy grab that football and hold it for Charlie Brown will you? They are pulling away the benefit everytime you nearly reach the ball. Fool me once shame on me - fool me twice shame on you. They never fooled me once.
You do realize that they're going to remove the 15 emp merit cost and are putting back the emp merit reward for folks who've unlocked their slots right?

MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812

 

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Definitely the best strategy to pursue once the devs have already acceded graciously to the mind-bogglingly massive meteor shower of whining that has been pummeling the forums since the i21.5 reveal is continuing to whine about how they cannot be trusted and surely must be planning new ways to anger you in secret. This makes you look like a mature adult who is in no way trying to lick his or her wounded pride after being proven ironically and totally wrong.

 

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
continuing to whine about how they cannot be trusted and surely must be planning new ways to anger you in secret.
I think that Positron's mention of how much the devs enjoy making Trials, and how there are more Trials coming in future Issues should be enough to keep them tinfoil hat types going

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I'm hoping that we're coming towards the conclusion of "end game" and that Posi will soon be distracted by a new shiny to work on that's a lot better than the current post-GR content.
There is no end to the endgame system - there'll always be new Trials, powers, slots and cosmetic items being added for us to experience- we'll always be "chasing the next big thing", according to Positron - and Black Scorpion said that they've thought up ideas for way more Trails than they'll ever be able to make, even if they add half a dozen new ones a year.

This was also posted yesterday by Positron:

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Originally Posted by Positron View Post
I’m pretty excited about the new Incarnate Trials coming with future issues. With your help and feedback we hope that we can make these exciting, epic, and fit within your playstyles while still presenting you a challenge. As much as you players love to play them, I know the designers love to design them. It’s one of the more enjoyable parts of our jobs, designing these Incarnate Trials to see just what our players are made of. What is too hard? What only appears to be too hard on the surface? I hope that the lessons we’ve all learned from this can help us create some awesome content.
A slower solo Incarnate path is being worked on, and there'll be more details about it next month at the Player Summit - but the Trials are the core endgame content, and they'll be making new ones with each new Issue.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
I play mostly squishes on trials and Tfs because debuffs are usually more in demand than any of my scrappers. After a few runs of getting one shotted and trying to keep up with other players running around the map I gave up on running it.

I have never played the UG for the exact same reason you listed.
If you have never played the UG trial, you can't complain about it. It is no comparison to keyes, which is not as bad now that more people know what to do.

The Ug trial moves like a hoard of army ants, not scattered Willy nilly.

My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.

"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question

 

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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU View Post
Positron has confirmed that the BAF and Lambda are keeping their Emp merit rewards but also said that 'if enough people don't play the new content, we're going to have to look into other ways of making the playerbase do it' (I am paraphrasing here but that is the gist of it). Which has raised a few eyebrows amongst some of my fellow players that I chat to.
While I am delighted that sanity is prevailing for the moment, the development team can immediately disabuse themselves of the notion that they can "force" players to do anything that they don't want to do.

This is a game that many of us are still paying for. Its not real life, its not a job, NCSoft is not the IRS or the FBI. If i were them I would drop the idea of force like a hot potato, because it will burn their fingers in the end.

No forcing. TYVM.

 

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Originally Posted by ItsJustJake View Post
If you have never played the UG trial, you can't complain about it. It is no comparison to keyes, which is not as bad now that more people know what to do.

The Ug trial moves like a hoard of army ants, not scattered Willy nilly.
Not once in m post did I complain about the UG trial. I said I refuse to play it as Keyes ruined my appetite for the new trials.

Why take my squishe through it when I can unlock the same slots, get the similar rewards in less time and with less confusion?

Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?

Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
If i were them I would drop the idea of force like a hot potato, because it will burn their fingers in the end.

No forcing. TYVM.
There'll always be some kind of "force" involved - by offering cool rewards for new content, they "force" people to play the new content

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
Not once in m post did I complain about the UG trial. I said I refuse to play it as Keyes ruined my appetite for the new trials.

Why take my squishe through it when I can unlock the same slots, get the similar rewards in less time and with less confusion?
This is coming from someone who has to resist the urge to cross herself at the mere mention of Keyes: UG is nothing like Keyes. For real, it really isnt.

It is no cakewalk, it will challenge you. You'll die some. [Note: SOME. Not every 15 seconds.] But its very do-able, especially after you run it a few times and get used to it. A good reason to run UG is that if your character has only Alpha unlocked, it gives A LOT of progress toward the rest of your slot unlocks.

The maps are beautiful, so you have new stuff to look at. Its a really fun trial, give it a whirl.

 

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Shame, I was beginning to become accustomed to all the All Caps, asterisked sentences, and threats to unsub. Must be Stockholm Syndrome.
nope..call it swotr sydrome

 

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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU View Post
*also hugs Second Measure*

Well that puts a stop to one of the major gripes I had with the latest issue, especially since it was basically nonsensical, I could see the reason behind the BAF and Lambda change (even if I didn't agree with it) but the 15 emp merit unlock was just puzzling.



Positron has confirmed that the BAF and Lambda are keeping their Emp merit rewards but also said that 'if enough people don't play the new content, we're going to have to look into other ways of making the playerbase do it' (I am paraphrasing here but that is the gist of it). Which has raised a few eyebrows amongst some of my fellow players that I chat to.

This is a very valid point. I think what people are forgetting here is that the Incarnate system is Positron's brainchild. Any failure of his own system will reflect very poorly on his position at the workplace. Forcing players to play the newer content will make the Incarnate system less so a failure and show his bosses that the newer trials are being played and therefore his system is a success. My opinion is that the Incarnate system is a resounding failure finally taking shape. The Alpha slot is the only slot I will actually pursue for my characters at this point outside of my tank.

The system is F.U.B.A.R.'ed as far as I'm concerned: too many currencies and too much time needed to invest to get any type of reward. There's very little incentive for me to play the end game at all anymore. I've been happily chugging along in First Ward for the past month. The new zone, the new stories, and the new power sets are what keeps me playing this game. The game has seen vast improvements across all areas with the exception of Incarnate content. This coming from a once skeptic of the change to the Freedom model.

Positron, people want difficulty and want game play that doesn't mindlessly involve mashing their keyboards. The problem is a fundamental one; this game was never designed to utilize a player's reflexes. If true "battle" tactics were meant to be used, this would have been more of a hack 'n slash or F.P.S. based game, which it is not.

There is no way around the monotonous game play outside of offering new ways to experience it, such as through new story content or new power sets. This game was never meant to have systems that circumvent the very play style it was originally designed for. Adding exotic damage to the end game system with such a penalty (after many players have spent hundreds of hours kitting out their level 50's, mind you) as used in the Keyes Island Reactor trial is a counterproductive approach to spicing up the game play mechanics. So too is the idea that you will then even consider penalizing players for wanting to avoid such a tedious task.

I'm with the people who have voiced their opinions in these forums that say they play this game to have fun. I'm willing to wager there aren't as many power gamers as Positron may think who have the time and the commitment needed to be able to unlock all the new end game content. I myself think I play way too much at times and that is nowhere near enough time to unlock most of the Incarnate system on more than one character.

 

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My current standing with the trials is kinda meh. I enjoyed a few runs of the first two and got put off by never getting a rare or very rare and realizing I'd have to buy them...which would mean more grinding. So I did a few when I felt up to it with my SG. Then I tried Keyes and it was a struggle but I pushed and fought and we won and I was all "RAAAAGGHHH WHAT NOW YOU PASTY SKINNED ARMOR NEEDIN SON OF A...wait this is all I get?". I have done it again but only because that's what my SG was doing and I didn't want to solo, but it's always "hey Not Positron...yep gonna fight yay again...see you in 2 weeks or so".

The issue is I can slug through a few of the first 2 with no real stress for almost the same damn rewards. I will one day try UG. The removal of the emps was an attempt to fix this, but I think it's on the wrong side of the equation. New trials will need either a new tier to the currency above the last max that can be converted both ways for a loss, a significant increase in rewards to match the new challenge/annoyance level, or be on equal footing with the current trials in challenge/annoyances and reward.

I was however willing to accept the change because trials would still be meh for me and at the rate this stuff has been coming out only doing it every few weeks would at least get me mostly filled before any stronger advancement is available.

Now back to being childish...(edit: me being childish...I don't care if you guys join me or not)

 

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@Sinister...complaining about "mindless button mashing" and say the game should be more like a hack and slash game is laughable. There's very little skill involved with FPS games as well when the greatest obstacle is the mighty Ping, which makes a massive difference.