It's time to improve Broadsword

Mace is altogether a different set design and all things considered, isn't horrible.

The discussion at hand came about because originally, Kataka and Broadsword powers are exact copies of each other except for animation time differences and some damage differences.

The idea (we believe) is that Katana would lesser damage, but faster. While Broadsword would do higher damage, but take longer. So that when the sets were compaired over a set period of time, they'd be even. But it doesn't work out that way, Katana ends up slightly ahead of BS except when looking at a single attack being done to a single target.

For the normal player, I don't think that this is a noticeable issue and the choice between the two sets is aesthetic (concept).

Yet for those that are concerned with numbers, or just Scrapper sets in general, this difference is at least something interesting for comparing, theorizing, discussing, and a great place to ultimately put some ideas out there and see where we, as a community, end up.

Thus far I think this is where things lie:

Change Build Up to grant a higher damage buff that decreases over time, with a longer duration, and higher recharge.

Change Build Up to grant a Smashing damage proc to all attacks for its duration. Duration and recharge time again may need to be altered.

And my last idea which I'm wondering if its workable or even desireable, is to leave Build Up alone. Instead, grant BS single target attacks a new mechanic called Follow Through. If the primary target is hit, this then causes a chance to have damage spread akin to how Disentegration or other chain powers jump to targets, but keep the range of the spread small so as to only affect nearby targers (from the primary) and limit the number hit to 2-3. The spread would be pure damage similating that the weapon hit with such force that you unintentionally struck those nearby as well.

So, while against single targets, Katana still pulls ahead, but, hopefully if done right, against multiple targets, the sets end up pretty even over a given period of time.

If we were/are going to put together an actual proposal for the Devs, I'd like to suggest that any solution change at least 3 powers. That way, any balancing doesn't 'miss' everyone who chose to skip that particular power.

So I would think that we would want to propose minor numbers changes to the first two powers (the must takes) and the Rename/Mechanical buff turning Build Up into some sort of Berserker mode.

The main question at this point I would think is how much (5 seconds, 10 seconds 20 seconds) of a Burst advantage Broadsword should have over Katana, and against what rank (minions, lieutenants, boss+) targets.

Steal some of Titan Weapon's momentum mechanic. After you hit with one Broadsword power, additional ones are sped up a bit. Not to the point of being equal to Katana, but closer.

Or make a much more significant mechanical change. Turn Whirling Sword into Pommel Sweep, which is a cone with the same arc and range as Slice, but with the back of the weapon so it inflicts pure smashing damage. Give it a small (10-15%) chance to inflict a mag2 disorient, bump the damage up a bit from Whirling Sword (since it's no longer a 360 degree AOE) and decrease the recharge by a small amount. Of course the drawback there is that it turns Broadsword into a pure cone-and-single set. Would it still be appealing with no PBAOE power at all?

Matuse, ya gave me a genius idea.

At level 1, grant a Toggle power akin to Swap Ammo - "Back Blade" (Please, think of a better name y'all)

Back Blade - Toggle, 1 Sec Rech, 0 EPS.

Your training with the Broadsword has taught you that not all targets should be cut down. So you beat them instead. By using the dull, backside of your blade, your attacks deal blunt force wounds and trauma, instead of cutting. These blows bruise when they hit, instead of weakening your opponents defenses.

Swap all BS Powers to Smashing Damage, same scale as normal, and all attacks now give a stackable -Res, same mag as the -Def.

Allows the Broadsword user to tailor damage on the fly.

Only issue I can see is it would need to be an added 10th power, automatically granted.

Alternately, could swap Slice and Slash's tiers, and then swap Slash for Back Blade. (losing a marginal ST attack for a mechanical trick, and making it completely optional)

Don't get me wrong, my second Scrapper that I levelled was a BS / Regen that teamed through the 30's primarily with a Kat / Regen Scrapper. (Pre IO days mind you). And yes, I noticed the difference quite too. It'd be very obvious if we split up to take on two different equal spawns, or start off at a single hard target at the same time.

But I've also been on teams with BS and Kat users and neither complained about what was going on. So perhaps it's all subjective. So let me restate, that from my own experience, the average user hasn't seemed to take notice of any major difference between the two sets. All things considered, BS isn't that bad off when there are other more glaring issues for other powersets out there. But it's worth discussion because because it's closest couzin, Katana does beat it out in almost every scenario.

I still don't agree that Mace should be compared to BS and Katana. While its in the same family, and we've already gotten the apples to oranges comparison before in this thread, then I'll call it comparing bananas to apples :P

With regards to the momentum mechanic being applied to BS, I'm not too sure that'd be anywhere near likely. Each attack that uses momentum actually replaces the animation with the sped up on. It doesn't actually increase the animation itself. That's a lot of work for a set that's pretty much okay.

Which is why the idea of chaing Build Up, or adding a short-cone-range chaining effect would be more likely as it doesn't require all that additional animation work.

The simplest change is to rework Build Up in 1 of the 2 ways I previously summarized upthread. It doesn't require a new animation or art work, only numbers work for the damage boost, duration, and recharge time.

The damage spread would require more work, but does make the set more unique.

I'm very late to the party...in so many ways. While I have calculus thru the multi-variable level I bring (happily) absolutely no numbers to this. No Arcana time, no DPs, nada. I do bring my years of RPGs, and art though.

You gotta give Broadsword just one little cool thing. Doesnt have to be a major buff, doesnt have to bring 'parity'. You just gotta give it something so a % of players love it for that one unique thing.

Could be increasing one attacks damage, the big wallop. Just enough so that crit number looks even cooler.

Or, give it something (else) Katana does not have. It already has the ability to be paired with shield. What other cool little thing can it have that makes it attractive without changing game balance at all?

You can argue numbers and buffs all day long, or debate, or discuss or whatever. They might even get implemented, gratz. But what is gonna make people really enjoy the set (andrun it) is that they love it. Show it some love.

Yeah, but then it's not much of a Follow Up, it's just a Build Up with a tohit check.

Broadsword should do -res instead of -def. Boom! Fixed.

If nothing else, I would love to see some alternate animations for Broadsword. Some of the powers look or feel slower because of the animations. And some variety for us weapon types would be appreciated.

Counter that with a small increase to overall damage and I think BS would see some new life.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with it now, just ideas and options that could change things up.