It's time to improve Broadsword

I understand the idea of a Berserker Rage sort of power, but a defense penalty while it is running is not the way to implement that. In DnD and other RPGs, that sort of thing is represented by bonuses which are then followed by penalties. This is the case in CoH already as well, as represented by the existing Rage power in Super Strength.

After a rage, the penalty is usually associated with fatigue. This would translate to a loss of endurance better than a defense penalty.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

Some good ideas here.
I say, give BS a mini rage and then change the secondary to fear.
Mini rage- makes it easy to change the feel of the set from katana or titan weopons. Look how different super strength plays from stone melee....well from anything. i would alter the effect to a shorter duration and a higher dmg buff. Something in between rage and build up, and a lighter crash to go with it. It would be a new power, but only in that it has different values for dmg buff and rech and crash, so it shouldnt be a dev time nightmare.

Fear- this fits the idea of demoralization mentioned earlier, and both gives the set a unique feel and also helps with mitigation-needed as the set's aoe is meh which leads to longer battle times. The kicker would be give the powers fear on target, but also aoe fear. For instance, whirling sword would have the fear on each target, hack would also(that targets actually being target) but then on say, disembowel give the fear a target cap of 3 and make it aoe,(the fear not the dmg) and say on headsplitter give it a target cap of 5 or 6.(again only the fear part) The secondary effect could be applied like taunt where each power is given its own aoe radius and a cap.
So then we have foes cowering in fear at the giant hurt you just put on their buddy, and a mini berserk mode thats adds burst dmg and also makes the set play differently then the other weapon sets.

Okay, another crazy idea...

Start with good old Build Up. No penalties, no changes whatsoever.

Add to it a series of extra bonuses, based on the character's current state that represent various 'styles' of combat.

For instance, if your hp is currently high, you are "Focused" (with handy pretty floaty): you get additional bonuses to Recharge, MoveSpeed and your attacks have a Chance to Knockdown. Essentially, you are in 'minion mashing mode'.

If your hp are currently low, you are "Angered": you get extra bonuses to Damage and Recovery and your attacks have a Chance to Stun. This is 'boss killing mode'.

Again, the idea is tacticality: you have the option of choosing between various modes of a single power based literally on how you approach the fight.

Wow, nice thread. Good to see that people still think about this stuff.

Since I'm so late to the party, naturally I will throw in my own ridiculous idea.

I like the berserk thing. I like the burst damage thing. I like the AoE thing.

So make a click power, 20s duration, 180s recharge.

Mobs within a 10ft radius at the time of the click take an extra shot of Crit from your attacks for the 20s of the power.

You do 2x normal damage on that mob for 20s, with crits putting you at 3x damage.

Cap it at 10 targets.



(btw, if anyone knows how to get Synapse and Black Scorpion to respond to PMs, let me know. They've yet to acknowledge the existence of the Issues List, which is one of the reasons I've been so damn lazy about it)

Yeah, I figured you probably didn't mean what I thought you did. At any rate, you may be right about the end drop. I was just suggesting that because it is present in the game already for Rage and Hasten. But in light of Arcanaville's point, end drop is probably not the best way to go. In fact, I'm having a hard time figuring out a penalty that would be appropriate.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

Yes, but it could be argued that players will find a way to abuse anything. In fact, it could be argued that at least one player has abused everything in the game by now. The change can't be focused on the extremes of the player base, but on the largest number of players. Sure, some attention has to go to keeping it from being an obvious exploit. However, we have to be careful not to let that bog down the discussion.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

In the interests of the OP, finding something for BS to excel at....and summarizing some of the ideas presented in this thread.

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Premise: BS is the best melee weapon set for alpha striking, but correspondingly is less sustainable than other melee weapon sets.

To make that true, BS build up has its bonus doubled, but also its END cost and recharge increased commensurately (though not necessarily equally)

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Premise: BS is the bleeding lethal set modeled as DoT's, but lethal damage is widely resisted and thus less useful than energy based DoT sets.

To make the first part more true, the bleeding mechanic dot effect is applied to all or most of the BS attacks, differing in number of ticks; this damage is over and above the base damage currently inflicted, thus padding BS's overall damage output relative to it's current state. The downside is already true.

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Premise: BS is as much about wailing on foes as it is about cutting them, but correspondingly is resisted by the higher of smashing or lethal def.

All or almost all of the BS attacks have a small additional amount of Smashing added.

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Premise: BS is the DPE king of the melee weapon sets, but the individual endurance costs of its attacks are abnormally high.

Increase all of the attack's END costs by 1.5 or so, and all of the attack's Damage per Endurance by 1.75 or something along those lines such that though the END expenditure is steep, the damage output per END spent is advantageous to BS overall. A BS character will float big fat orange numbers, but have to manage the blue bar more carefully.

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Premise: BS hits hard, leaving foes disoriented. However, it's damage output is outpaced by faster lighter weapons.

Add a Mag 1 Stun chance to each BS attack (except maybe Parry), with something like a 10-20 second duration. Piling on the hits can stun almost any opponent. The detriment is already true.

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Premise: BS inflicts a lot of trauma with its deep, heavy cuts and even though it's overt damage output isn't fabulous relative to similar melee weapon sets, it is particularly effective against fast recovering foes.

Add a stackable Regen debuff to all or most of BS's attacks. This has very little practical effect effect vis a vis standard content, but it does advantage BS vs AV's and Monsters, and regen based opponents relative to other melee sets.

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Personally, I would like just about any approach that brings BS up to par with other melee sets or even just the other sword sets. There's got to be a reason to play a BS other than "i want a sword AND a shield".

I know we are in the scrapper forum, but I think if anything is going to be modified in Broadsword it has to be a mechanic that can translate over to all AT's with broadsword. Clearly some ideas can't be export from on to another without modifications. So, why not something along the lines of the following.

For scrappers and stalkers: Why not have broadsword provide a tempory stacking critical strike buff. The base for all scrapper crits are 5% for minions and 10% for lts. and bosses (Right? Might be 5% for minion/lt. 10% for boss+). Why not do something that for every attack that broad sword makes that does not crit the critical strike chance increases by x%. When a critical strike is landed the counter clears. (I think this would translate into larger orange numbers a reasonable amount of the time)

For brutes, I'm kind of stumped on. I was thinking something tied into fury generation, perhaps an increased fury generation rate, or something as simple as a stacking damage buff that continues to build until a certain duration passes and then it resets.

For example, one the first attack the brute would receive x% damage bonus (not including fury). This damage buff would have a set duration. On the second attack x% damage boost would increase by y% and the duration of the buff would still be what was ever left of the counter when the first attack was started. I think it would give Broadsword a neat constant build up effect that I'm sure can be balanced enough to be worthwhile, but reasonable and still provide the same kind of effect that scrappers and stalkers would receive.

Sure, the idea is unrefined at the moment, but I thought it might work.

I like the increased Crit Mechanic from Build-Up... how about this?

Berserk - 15 Sec Duration, 135 second Recharge (increased Duration and rech by 50% over Build Up) - The Broadsword is a mighty weapon, and your training allows you to show your foes JUST how much damage it can deal. After channeling your strength, your next attack will be a Critical, and for the duration of the power, all other Broadsword attacks have a chance to critical.

100% crit with next attack, then a flat +20% (adjustable, of course) critical chance for the duration of the buff. Identical +Damage and +ToHit of Build Up otherwise. No penalty. And have this Crit chance apply to Brutes/Tanks as well, with it being ADDED to Scrappers Crit chace (can we mechanically do that?) so they'd have a 25% vs. minions, and 30% vs Lt+ mobs.

Main catches I see... How to adjust/mod/balance for Stalkers (giving them Build Up doesn't address the issue BS has), is it possible to stack the Crit chance/give Crits to NON-Scrapper AT's, and what percentage would be... Fair?