It's time to improve Broadsword

You might (or might not) recall that I didn't even start making the argument until the changes that made it 180s duration; 1000s recharge. Before that, MoG was an interesting option. I had it and used it myself.

It never was a good idea to use MoG. Just because you got lucky and survived doesn't mean you should have used the power.

I can do this all day!

Oooh! Me likey.

I think people like two main things about Broad Sword. First, they like the burst damage. Second, they like the SMASH of the set. So emphasize them. If Broad Sword had a super Build Up that worked like that and produced more damage overall than a regular Build Up, it would be even better at burst damage, and even more smashy. Accentuate the positive! Its DPS would probably still lag a little, but that's fine, as it would have its specialty.

For that matter, I'd love to see something like the super Build Up adds knockdown to Hack and Slash and maybe Slice and Whirling Sword while it's active. That would also give the survivability edge to Broad Sword by a slight margin - Broad Sword for burst and survivability, Katana for DPS. That might be going too far, though. I'd have a hard time playing Katana at that point. Broad Sword would be too tasty.

Edit: And I don't think it steps on Titanic Weapons' toes because isn't that more like a mini-fury, building up to maximum DPS carnage? A super Build Up emphasizes the opposite, burst damage, all of it, right now, no waiting.

Thematically I can't see this. Per Webster: 1: a fencer's quick return thrust following a parry. While, yes, Broadsword does have an "attack" called "Parry", even that is a bit of a misnomer in a name as Broadsword is not a swift and lithe set. It is a thrust and crunch and crush set. Weapons of the magnitude to get labeled a "Broadsword" were meant for their lethal striking ability in wide and direct swings rallying the very weight of the (often dual edged) weapon. I use this definition a bit loosely as multiple cultures have varying concepts on "broadsword". Honestly, I think Parry should have been renamed to something more crunchy fitting from the get-go, but that's not the debate here.

I do agree there is some ... awkwardness to the older sets that have not seen any kind of face lift to keep in line with the expanding and evolving game. Katana is solid on it's own, but easily outshines Broadsword. Why would anyone want Broadsword when Katana does the same bag of tricks faster, with "less" endurance investment? With the prelude of Titan Weapons on the horizon, Broadsword is about to get put in the attic.

To throw my two cents in on it: What does Broadsword really entail? Heavy demoralizing strikes depending on the size and design of the weapon. Knights of the medieval era who carried "broadswords" often used the weapons not for a lethal cutting edge, but for the brute smashing force to pummel an opponent down to open a point that they could stab a killing blow or straight out lop body parts off. Often, wild and wide swings allowed the chance to catch multiple foes in punishing hits. So, thematically, the concepts of the existing attacks are sound, but they should probably be split a little (70/30) Lethal/Smashing across the board.

Continuing with this idea, -Def is reasonable in the attacks, but its not so much about "breaking their defenses down" so much as creating such brutal strikes that subsequent attacks are more effective due to the heavy damage being inflicted each time--hence Resistance loss. I'd suggest something along the lines of a "Demoralizing" effect. Subsequent attacks on a target stack an amount of -Res. Have one or two attacks (Hack/Slash) provide -Defense, and have a couple others provide "Demoralize" (Whirling Swords/Headsplitter) ala the same mechanic as Degenerate. All the remaining attacks in the set will include a follow-up mechanic that if a target is "Demoralized", the attack will add a small -Res (2-4%, stackable, and capped at some point) while adding a small DoT (one damage every two seconds, nothing special, but something that says "they're bleeding!").

Further from that, concerns with Build Up. It shouldn't be "Oh, I suddenly feel STRONG!", it should be "I'm getting angry...bloody thirty... ATTACK!" Say, Berserk Mode. Similar mechanic to Rage from Super Strength, toned down just a bit to accommodate the -Def/-Res. Thematically, I'd also include a punishing effect for stacking it. 90/s-120/s Duration, capable of being stacked, but a second stack only gives 50% bonus and causes a significant -Def/-Res to the player to signify "Yes, you are dishing the pain, but you've become reckless, and it'll kill you."

So in short, my suggestion:

Split the damage type 70/30 Lethal/Smashing, add a Demoralizing Mechanic, and provide a more unique "Build Up" (Berserk) to overall give the set a very defined and unique appeal that will interest people to move away from other sets without shoving it into the "Best Set Ever".

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

I like it!

The old, 90s duration, 300s recharge, base defense MoG was better than the current version. But they nerfed that.

The 180s duration, 1000s recharge, def to all but psi MoG was crappy.

We are getting a bit off-topic. But this discussion has progressed exactly how I hoped.

I like this as well... however, leery of the developer time required to create yet ANOTHER new mechanic...

Seems to me that adding -Res on top of the -Def, and maybe allowing that -Res debuff to crit with damage would be easier, and enough to differentiate it from everything else, while not OP'ing it.

Was only crappy against psi mobs which could totally be avoided now by cherry picking your content. Either way broadsword is the last on the list that needs help now. If you had said broadsword for stalkers you might have gotten my support since it would mean stalkers would get looked at then.

Actually Super-strength is last on the list. Broadsword is quite a bit above it on the list. Where, who knows? Synapse keeps the list.

That's the thing, this isn't another new Mechanic. It would be a modification of the currently-existing Degenerate mechanic from Beam Rifle. You hit someone with the attack Degenerate, and it adds that "state" to the target. Then, for the other attacks in the set, when a target has "Degenerate" on them, you apply an additional DoT that has the chance of spreading to other targets around it.

So, same mechanic, in essence. Just change it from "Degenerate" to "Demoralize" (simple name change in the coding), and instead of "DoT" it adds "-Res" (again, code copy/change to a pre-existing function).

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

Some of us left-handed people like it that way :[

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen

I like this idea.

Broadswords are big and heavy, it would make perfect thematic sense for it to deal some smashing damage as well.

Setting it up like Fiery Embrace would work nicely as well, representing that you put everything you have into your strikes for a short time and the sword almost turns into a bludgeoning weapon.

A small -res debuff on some of the attacks would be thematically appropriate as well (a small one, like 5%), since broadswords were made so heavy in order to be more effective against armored opponents. Hack, Disembowel, and Head Splitter would be the attacks I give it to.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I'm pretty sure you're right. Synapse said in a recent chat that he had ideas in revamping old sets that he's using for entirely new sets. Titan Weapons may have been what he had in mind for ol' Broadsword.

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I understand that... but the Katana wasn't/isn't a left-handed weapon.

It can be used as such, but the vast majority of techniques, strikes, and any formal school uses it as a Right dominant weapon... even for y'all Southpaws.

Over the years I've noticed that -res seems thematically appropriate for everything. By my recollection, its been thematically suggested for Martial Arts, Dark Melee, War Mace, Spines, Radiation Blast, and Brawl.

Stackable -res seems to be one of those things the devs really hate, until they come up with it themselves and add it somewhere. So its something I generally avoid suggesting.

Hack is already the better of the low attacks, give some love to slash.