Why F2P Chat woes make me so angry...
By
akarah the hunter,
Posted on: 2011-10-06 21:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Given that I had 20+ tells & emails PER CHARACTER per day, it wasn't "more than a blip on the radar". It was 99% of my in-game emails. And even on smaller servers like Triumph and Liberty, I filled my ignore list with spammers that broadcast & sent tells.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I couldn't care less about RMT, I was here during the supposed worst parts and it was merely more than a blip on the radar, blown out of proportion by some forum goers. If you ask me, stopping F2P players from communicating in tells and broadcast is throwing out the baby with the bath water.
|
Heck, it got so bad that I made a G15 macro to automate using the ignore_spammer command in 2007 (G15 Ignore Spammer Macro creation). I've not had to use it in over a year now, that alone says to me that asking for F2P to be given the rights to tells & broadcast is a BAD IDEA. If they want to send tells, that is a $5 purchase of Paragon Points. That is a reasonable compromise.
Now, having said that, the following changes could be made:
- Allow F2P players the ability to respond to tells.
- Give a warning to the VIP/Premium player that the target cannot respond to tells.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
The original plan was that only VIP's would be able to post on the forums. However, enough players made valid points that Paragon Studios listened and began investigating ways to allow non-VIP's to have limited posting capabilities.|
Originally Posted by NancY
I don't know about purchasing in the shop giving the Free player Premium status and access to tells because I came back as Premium. But I do know that before subbing again I couldn't post anywhere on the forums. I tried. There was a message at the top of the forum saying that I couldn't post unless I was VIP and when I tried to post anyway I got a message that I didn't have access or something like that.
I couldn't get in-game support, tried to post in the Tech/Bug section and wasn't allowed, so I re-subbed in order to post. I was going to re-sub eventually anyway so that wasn't a big deal. If other Premium players are able to post I'd like to know why some could and some couldn't. There's a glitch somewhere. |
I know for a fact that non-VIP accounts can post in the Gameplay / Technical Issues & Bugs forum since I've posted there on my other account. Actually, it was in response to another non-VIP player's questions about posting. Our Community Manager even posted in that thread as well with some clarifications about what they were trying to implement, although it was a bit vague as they apparently haven't fully ironed out what they are going to be able to do.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Once we have all functionality in place Premium players will have extremely limited posting capabilities in one, maybe two, forums, this forum being one of them.
We're not advertising this yet as all functionality is not in place. |
EDIT: It is also possible that they have again made some changes while they are trying to see what they can implement. My Premium account has this message at the top of the forums:
Quote:
|
Because you are not a VIP subscriber you do not have full access or posting privileges on these forums. Click here to find out how to become a VIP subscriber and participate in the Official City of Heroes Freedom Forums Community! |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Want to know the biggest crime though? My friend paid $15 worth of PP and he STILL can't really RP with my SG because he can't even be invited to the custom OOC channel.
I'm not asking for miracles here, just that premium players be allowed to enter a chat room they've been invited to. RWT be hanged, that's not the real excuse as far as this is concerned.
Quote:
To join a global channel, a premium account needs to have completed the Tier 3 of Paragon Rewards. This takes a total of 5 reward tokens.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
Want to know the biggest crime though? My friend paid $15 worth of PP and he STILL can't really RP with my SG because he can't even be invited to the custom OOC channel.
I'm not asking for miracles here, just that premium players be allowed to enter a chat room they've been invited to. RWT be hanged, that's not the real excuse as far as this is concerned. |
Assuming your friend started as a free account, paying USD$15 would have earned its' account two reward tokens (one for becoming a premium account, one for the 1200 paragon points purchased). Your friend would need another three reward tokens (at 1200 paragon points each; at 3600 paragon points total) or your friend can subscribe for 3 months, enjoy all the benefits of being a vip/subscriber and then let the account lapse into being a premium account.
Either way would cost the same amount.
(USD$45 for 3600 paragon points /or/ USD$45 for three months of subscription.)
In my opinion, the F2P chat restrictions are absolutely STUPID! How can you restrict the most BASIC of player chat needs? It's an MMO for crying out loud. I understand that F2P people shouldn't have the same luxuries as VIPs, but I hardly consider effective communication a luxury; more like a requirement.
I know that they're banned from certain ATs, which I completely disagree with but whatever, and I think someone else mentioned that they're banned from Inspirations. Is that true? If it is, than that's just sad.
/angryrant
I agree OP 
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
isnt the whole point of F2P to increase your earnings from the game. how in the "wisdom" of these developers do they think that free players will actually pay money to play this game when oh i dont know this whole MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME is but c r a p p y single player experience for them. Since issue 21 I have seen multiple versions of atlas park, kings row, and steel canyon, but guess what its still the same old feel even though there is this influx of new players. so dumb. but w/e i hope this bites them so hard in the ***. then maybe these "developers" will listen to players concerns and actually meet them halfway on them.
ive played so many other f2p games and i have never ever had such a stupid restriction placed on me from trying those games.
i didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if someone has or will mention the whole blah blah spend 5 bucks on the market and boom you get access. BS to that! I really REALLY want new players try this game and WANT TO SPEND money in it not because they HAVE to.
Quote:
Vince - first the verb "To Listen (to other's suggestions/concerns)" is not the same as the verb "To Act (in accordance with others demands)". |
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
i didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if someone has or will mention the whole blah blah spend 5 bucks on the market and boom you get access. BS to that! I really REALLY want new players try this game and WANT TO SPEND money in it not because they HAVE to.
|
Second, don't complain to the developers, comlain to the people who make violating the games Terms of Service their business. The requirement that players invest money is mainly there to restrict RMT spam.
And this game is more "Subscription with two free-play options" than being a true/traditional Free 2 Play game.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
This is an excellent point. MMOs are not renowned for their single-player gameplay and as a single-player game do not hold up very well. |
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
how in the "wisdom" of these developers do they think that free players will actually pay money to play this game when oh i dont know this whole MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME is but c r a p p y single player experience for them
|
The amount of minor, annoying restrictions placed in the way of F2P players is frankly embarassing. Surely there's enough content in the game that the developers can entice people to pay with that, instead of forcing people to buy the most basic of conveniences?
Quote:
The restrictions are in place to prevent RMT, not to force folks to buy conveniences or spend money.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
This is an excellent point. MMOs are not renowned for their single-player gameplay and as a single-player game do not hold up very well.
The amount of minor, annoying restrictions placed in the way of F2P players is frankly embarassing. Surely there's enough content in the game that the developers can entice people to pay with that, instead of forcing people to buy the most basic of conveniences? |
They've stated that they will always protect their VIPs from RMT first, as this being a game based on subscriptions is their FIRST primary focus. Not the f2p game.
With that said there should be some compromises made.
My suggestion: allow F2p players all chat access, BUT by default all VIP players have chat access from f2pers off. If the VIPers want to hear/talk to the F2p people then they need to go turn it on.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Also, Tells to and from players marked as "Helper" should be possible, give the tag some meaning!
|
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
If I were in control I'd want at least two things done with free-player tells:
If those two things, especially the second one were put in, the free tell situation would be solved. |
Quote:
By doing so, they are protecting their core money makers: their subscribers. It is there to make it so that there is a cost of business that will deter RMTs.|
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
i didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if someone has or will mention the whole blah blah spend 5 bucks on the market and boom you get access. BS to that! I really REALLY want new players try this game and WANT TO SPEND money in it not because they HAVE to.
|
As a subscriber, I was harassed, annoyed, and had my play time shortened by free accounts spamming offers of $ to Inf schemes. I'm all for Paragon Studios curbing RMTs by charging an incredibly small fee (less than going out to a fast food joint) for the LIFETIME ability to send tells, talk in broadcast, and join groups.
If they get their accounts banned, eventually they'll find something else to do than annoy PAYING customers of this game.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Machariel
The amount of minor, annoying restrictions placed in the way of F2P players is frankly embarassing. Surely there's enough content in the game that the developers can entice people to pay with that, instead of forcing people to buy the most basic of conveniences?
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
The only acceptable compromise is being able to return tells.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
With that said there should be some compromises made.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
My suggestion: allow F2p players all chat access, BUT by default all VIP players have chat access from f2pers off. If the VIPers want to hear/talk to the F2p people then they need to go turn it on.
|
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Quote:
Then you wouldn't know about the RMT deluge the game got a while back. |
Originally Posted by Cake
I started playing a month ago.
|
It was literally impossible to communicate in any public channel for a while due to the sheer volume of "Buy X influence for X real cash from RMTsite.com" spam that was occurring in any populated zone. There were 10 or 12 random costumed, gibberish-named toons standing around at any given time spamming the name of the site they worked for every few seconds, all day, every day.
My global ignore list is STILL completely filled with spammers to the point that any new addition to it knocks someone else out of it. You can global ignore a couple hundred people at a time, and I filled my list for the first time in less than a week.
RMT sites are a horrible nuisance to gamers. They interrupt your playtime with their spam, and if you are stupid enough to buy from them they will steal your credit card information and use it to start a new account to farm with. If you are stupid enough to give them your account information so they can PL you, they will start sending their spam from YOUR account, which has the end result of getting you banned for being a spammer.
RMT spammers were a horrible plague on this game for a while, and the devs finally managed to curb it. Unfortunately, it is inconvenient for free players because of the measures they had to take to solve the problem. Unless you don't mind spammers trying to sell you crap being the overwhelming majority of the communication you receive in the game, to the point that you have to sift through dozens of tells to find the one person who was asking you if you wanted to team.
The sad part is, I'm not really exaggerating any of that, it really WAS that bad for a while.
I'm kind of torn on it, actually. I would like for free players to be able to communicate better. But at the same time, I understand and agree with the steps the devs took to get rid of the RMTers.
And yes, I'm aware that you haven't seen much of anything from RMT sites. That just means that what the devs did worked.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
rmt rmt.
city of heroes is nothing in the grand scheme of making RL $$ from fake interweb cash. do the hardcore players and devs think that highly of their game compared to whats out there?
RL $$ for inf or gold or silver or w/e game currency is here to stay, deal with it. this game is unique in that characters can actually feel complete after a certain amount of influence spent.
coh has such a small stake in the MMO pie that i have to say most people are just over dramatizing what menace gold sellers/spammers would be to this game. frankly i wouldnt be surprised if the gold sellers themselves dont advertise in this game much simply for the lack of demand. i mean thats just how small COH feels like for me. I remember back when i first started playing MMOs and it was most def something i never told friends about, it was like saying i played those magic card game or w/e, embarrassing. then after playing wow i realized that not only did my friends play but so did coworkers, etc. coh does not have that effect, trust me.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with how highly we think of our game. |
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
city of heroes is nothing in the grand scheme of making RL $$ from fake interweb cash. do the hardcore players and devs think that highly of their game compared to whats out there?
|
CoH has managed to almost completely eliminate the RMT spam from the game. They were here in force fro a while, and largely gave up when they realized they were going to have to spend a significant amount of money to try and sell their crap. They balked at that.
The devs here made it too inconvenient for them to sit around and spam their crap all day long, so they largely left the game. You might run into some of them on Freedom or Virtue, but I haven't seen any RMT spam on Pinnacle in over a year now.
What you're seeing now is the result of the devs efforts. Like I said, you aren't seeing the RMT spam because the devs efforts to get rid of it actually worked.
It's not because they weren't trying to peddle their crap here, it was just made too difficult.
You're basically looking at it like "I don't see any RMT spam, so you don't know what you're talking about."
You weren't here 2 years ago. I was, and I remember clearing out my inbox every time I logged in, and staying hidden from searches just so I wouldn't get bombarded with tells from spammers the whole time I was playing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I wrote a suggestions thread relating to these free player tell woes here, but I will summarise the solutions here:
Why not give free players the 1 for 1 chance to reply to tells and allow free players to freely send tells if each is on their global friends lists? RMTers rely on being able to initiate communication first while the mentioned solutions always require someone like a VIP or someone who actually likes you to let you send tells to you!
I can't see anything wrong with these solutions because even if an RMTer spent $5 to gain perma-tell permission, they can already do that anyway! The above solutions would make it so much easier for the legitimate free players and the Premium/VIPs who have or want to interact with them.
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
Maybe its me not having played all 7 years but just a few months here and there yet still adding up to 3 years time, However I just cant believe the devs are the ones wholly responsible for (as someone stated above) curbing RMTs from this game.
I came back on GR release after playing a few months here and there since launch. Let me just say that the IO system complete scared me and left me feeling so incapable of amassing the necessary means to achieve the outcome I so desired for my character. But after some google search fu-ing in a matter of weeks i was able to amass more than enough inf to trick out my character. And that just made me thirst for more.
Honestly its redic easy to make inf in this game. Farmers are not competing with each other for drops, Unlike other games where farmers are competing with othe farmers and BOTs for resources.
Like i said I came back after issue 18 but of the few influence spams ive seen its what 1 bil for 6-7 dollars? 6-7 dollars in other games is not considered half of the total they can ever earn. I really do believe its just not worth it when everyone and their mother has the ability to make SELF PL and SELF "trick" out (on just measly SOs) a SS/FIRE/MU brute!!!
This issue has bothered me as well. I see some good ideas in this thread and I hope that the devs take notice of it.
Quote:
I really like this idea. It gives the VIPs control over their interaction with free players AND lets free players know that that guy with the yellow tag is someone they can talk with.
|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Also, Tells to and from players marked as "Helper" should be possible, give the tag some meaning!
|
A Guide to Champion Drama
My Videos
Ashcraft been published.
Quote:
I affirm these sentiments.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Freems need the ability to reply to tells.
Players that send tells need to be informed if someone cannot reply. That is all. |
The Help channel scrolls by like disclaimers in a commercial on many of the servers I play on, since it is the only channel the Freems can use. How anyone can get anything done trying to keep up with that is beyond me. I sure can't.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Quote:
Do you honestly not understand that preventing free players from meaningfully interacting with other players is going to mean that they come into the game, think "well this isn't fun, I can't play with anyone," and leave?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The concerns of the free players are secondary to Paragon Studios' money maker: their subscriber base.
|
The point of a F2P system is to ENTICE people to come and spend money on the game.
Not to provide a lower class that people like you can look down their nose at and say "ugh, why give them anything, they're a dirty freem."
Let them eat cake.
Quote:
Actually enticing people to come and spend money is pretty much secondary.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
Do you honestly not understand that preventing free players from meaningfully interacting with other players is going to mean that they come into the game, think "well this isn't fun, I can't play with anyone," and leave?
The point of a F2P system is to ENTICE people to come and spend money on the game. Not to provide a lower class that people like you can look down their nose at and say "ugh, why give them anything, they're a dirty freem." |
Getting more from their subscribers and using that to provide more for their subscribers is primary.
Unlike they ones who run companies like SOE, taking care of their existing playerbase instead of chasing a new one all the time, is of most importance to NCSoft/PS.
That said I'm all for some sort of compromise.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Logic doesn't stop RMTers. Back when they were at their prime it was STILL stupendously easy to self pl and self raise inf. The market and IOS were introduced back in ISSUE 9, yet there was still ENORMOUS RMT until the devs did something about it.|
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
Maybe its me not having played all 7 years but just a few months here and there yet still adding up to 3 years time, However I just cant believe the devs are the ones wholly responsible for (as someone stated above) curbing RMTs from this game.
I came back on GR release after playing a few months here and there since launch. Let me just say that the IO system complete scared me and left me feeling so incapable of amassing the necessary means to achieve the outcome I so desired for my character. But after some google search fu-ing in a matter of weeks i was able to amass more than enough inf to trick out my character. And that just made me thirst for more. Honestly its redic easy to make inf in this game. Farmers are not competing with each other for drops, Unlike other games where farmers are competing with othe farmers and BOTs for resources. Like i said I came back after issue 18 but of the few influence spams ive seen its what 1 bil for 6-7 dollars? 6-7 dollars in other games is not considered half of the total they can ever earn. I really do believe its just not worth it when everyone and their mother has the ability to make SELF PL and SELF "trick" out (on just measly SOs) a SS/FIRE/MU brute!!! |
Whether it's profitable or not is irrelevant to RMTers.
And irrelevant to whether we would get more spam than we do now.
I'm actually surprised that EMAIL spam hasn't picked back up. But it could be it's easier to block email spam without the devs putting in any draconian blocks on THAT system.
BUT for some time even RMT email spam was high. I have some older characters that have over 100 emails with nothing but email spam. If you'd like I'll take a screen shot and send to you.
Bottom line RMTers don't care about how profitable it is, they will send out their marketing messages no matter what. Period.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Yeah, I just found out about this last night.
My way of forming teams is by basically sending out tells asking if people want to join.
I would send out about 20 tells...and get two replies...when previously, almost everyone would reply with either "sure" or "no thank you".
They definitely need to change it so that free players and reply to tells at least.