Why F2P Chat woes make me so angry...
By
akarah the hunter,
Posted on: 2011-10-06 21:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Players that are not interested in putting for as little as $5 towards the game are just playing a demo. They have no basis for complaints that they are not getting access to tells.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
Do you honestly not understand that preventing free players from meaningfully interacting with other players is going to mean that they come into the game, think "well this isn't fun, I can't play with anyone," and leave?
The point of a F2P system is to ENTICE people to come and spend money on the game. Not to provide a lower class that people like you can look down their nose at and say "ugh, why give them anything, they're a dirty freem." |
Though I think Arcanaville put it better:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
This game is not attempting to execute the conventional F2P model.
That makes this observation about as relevant as saying a successful barbeque attempts to infuse smoke into the meat. In the conventional F2P model, it doesn't matter how much stuff you give away, all that matters is how much stuff you intend to entice people to buy. As long as you have a pipeline of stuff on a sufficiently deep treadmill, its completely irrelevant what you give away. Its a numbers game of trying to get as many players as possible under circumstances where a sufficiently high percentage will buy something, and that percentage can be low. But in a hybrid model with VIP subscribers, it *does* matter how much stuff you give away, and what stuff it is, because the more you give away and the higher a percentage of the core stuff you give away, the more you devalue subscriptions relative to ala carte purchases and freemium play. That's why no on subscribes to Farmville. People can debate whether this is or is not a free to play game based on silly semantics, but this isn't about labels. This is about whether this game intends to focus first on its subscriber base, and then create a free/ala carte game from a subset of the subscriber game that is not an identically complete experience so that VIP subscribers always have an advantage in their breadth and quality of gameplay. If you're a VIP player, City of Heroes Freedom is as much about you as the current game is now. If you are an ala carte Premium player the game is offering you the ability to play less game for less money, where you get to choose what you want to get and what you can afford to give up. If you are a completely free player, then this game is offering you a look around. Have fun, but don't complain about what you get for free. Or complain, but know that you're complaining about what you get for free, and make note of the fact we don't allow you to complain somewhere the rest of the players have to see. Oh, and just in case I wasn't clear the first time: This game is not attempting to execute the conventional F2P model. You'd think this was both obvious, given how many people manage to successfully *prove* Paragon Studios isn't actually doing what you'd expect if they were attempting to execute the conventional F2P model. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I believe that Arcanaville has put it...aptly, however to reiterate:
The cornerstone of our business is still going to be the VIP subscriber. Yes, we are offering both a Free and an Ala Carte experience, both being very robust, however our priority continues to be on delivering an amazing experience for our loyal Community. |
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No!
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Originally Posted by Frostbiter
Let them eat cake.
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If it was about RMT it would be $15, not $45. This is all about making money and they're hiding it behind the RMT threat.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The restrictions are in place to prevent RMT, not to force folks to buy conveniences or spend money.
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Most people in this thread are not talking about Premium access to global chat channels. They are talking about players unwilling to put out $5. Guess what? they are getting exactly what they are paying for.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
If it was about RMT it would be $15, not $45. This is all about making money and they're hiding it behind the RMT threat.
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As to the global channel access, yes, it is about Paragon Studios making money. I have zero problem with that. That it also helps severely limit a RMT from spamming up to 2,500 accounts at once across all servers is just icing on that cake. Global channel access also puts a greater strain on resources than a server or zone limited channel, so they are asking for more money from premium accounts for that access.
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People not paying $15 at least, don't deserve it, but $45 is obscene. It's also not limiting RMT because last I checked player had to be (or could be set to have to be) unsilenced before they can chat. Or wouldn't that require a bit of player input? Oh God forbid VIPs have to lift a finger and pitch in to make the game better. Try again, I'm really trying to be civil about this, but that excuse doesn't fly and it just shows how bad the situation is.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Most people in this thread are not talking about Premium access to global chat channels. They are talking about players unwilling to put out $5. Guess what? they are getting exactly what they are paying for.
As to the global channel access, yes, it is about Paragon Studios making money. I have zero problem with that. That it also helps severely limit a RMT from spamming up to 2,500 accounts at once across all servers is just icing on that cake. Global channel access also puts a greater strain on resources than a server or zone limited channel, so they are asking for more money from premium accounts for that access. |
I'd like to see free players getting the ability to reply to tells, but I don't believe Paragon is doing it just to get more money out of people.
Just get a 3 month subscription (worth 13.95 per month each) and with the one token you get for spending for the first time, plus the three you'll get each month as VIP, and you'll have enough to reach tier 3 and have all communication channels unlocked by the time you return to Premium, and get to enjoy all the channels from Day 1.
$41.85 vs. $45 in pure points, not that much cheaper, but cheaper all the same.
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@Oneirohero
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You do realize that the $40 has to come from somewhere right?|
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
I'd like to see free players getting the ability to reply to tells, but I don't believe Paragon is doing it just to get more money out of people.
Just get a 3 month subscription (worth 13.95 per month each) and with the one token you get for spending for the first time, plus the three you'll get each month as VIP, and you'll have enough to reach tier 3 and have all communication channels unlocked by the time you return to Premium, and get to enjoy all the channels from Day 1. $41.85 vs. $45 in pure points, not that much cheaper, but cheaper all the same. |
Tell you what, next time you're at a dinner, you have to pay $40 to use utensils. It's ENTIRELY possible to eat without them, and we don't want RMT advertisements on the forks because some people pay less for their meals.
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If my dinner is free I don't think I'll complain.
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Originally Posted by Virfortis
You do realize that the $40 has to come from somewhere right?
Tell you what, next time you're at a dinner, you have to pay $40 to use utensils. It's ENTIRELY possible to eat without them, and we don't want RMT advertisements on the forks because some people pay less for their meals. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Most people in this thread are not talking about Premium access to global chat channels. They are talking about players unwilling to put out $5. Guess what? they are getting exactly what they are paying for.
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I cannot speak for everyone else who posted, but I personally am not talking about people who aren't paying. I'm talking about me, who pays, and is prevented from receiving tells from free players. I did not have a choice in the matter and there is no amount of money I can pay to fix it. While I do pay to play the game "as is" sometimes the way it is isn't what I'd hope for.
[The OP indeed is talking about the $45 mark and not the $5 altho to me they are similar issues, if not necessarily to the OP or other people.]
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The free dinner is cheesy potato soup then.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
If my dinner is free I don't think I'll complain.
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As long as it's free, I'll eat it and not complain.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
The free dinner is cheesy potato soup then.
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Beggars can't be choosers, I've been told. There's also something about a gift horse.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I remember when people used to have to pay monthly in order to chat in the game. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
As long as it's free, I'll eat it and not complain.
Beggars can't be choosers, I've been told. There's also something about a gift horse. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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This requires the channel to be set up that way by its (player, volunteer) moderators, who by doing so are signing up to keep on top of unsilencing new joiners. The channels are not set that way by default.
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Originally Posted by Virfortis
People not paying $15 at least, don't deserve it, but $45 is obscene. It's also not limiting RMT because last I checked player had to be (or could be set to have to be) unsilenced before they can chat. Or wouldn't that require a bit of player input?
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I have to agree about the restrictions on chat. I was here during the horrible RMT via email and tells and, yes, it was disrupting and annoying for pretty much everyone.
I also am actively playing WoW where RMT is 1000x worse. (One would think, that with the much higher incidence of RMT there, that they'd have far greater restrictions.) And if paid accounts add a trial person to their friends list, they can freely communicate with each other via tells. The only restriction is the trial cannot invite the paid player to a team, only vice versa.
I'm all for letting Freems reply to tells. I know logging into my account as a Preem was a shocking experience because of all the restrictions, and I can't even imagine what a free account has to deal with. I'm more than happy to pay for a sub to not even have to find out.
My biggest problem is I can't even give a free player a wakie in a team. Now that is utter fail.
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Ditto.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
I would love it if free players could REPLY to tells. Even that would make a huge difference.
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Yeah, this is basically my stance. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I cannot speak for everyone else who posted, but I personally am not talking about people who aren't paying. I'm talking about me, who pays, and is prevented from receiving tells from free players. I did not have a choice in the matter and there is no amount of money I can pay to fix it. While I do pay to play the game "as is" sometimes the way it is isn't what I'd hope for.
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I don't *really* care much what a free player does and doesn't get, not in terms of "Oh the poor free players!" or anything like that.
What I care about is that it's impeding my own paid subscriber communications because a) I don't know if the person I just sent a tell to can reply, and b) I have to jump through extra hoops to get those who can't reply onto my teams. Maybe not by a huge amount, but when you play off-peak hours every little helps (or hinders, as the case may be).
I also happen to think that a side effect of the compromise suggestions* would be to increase the likelihood of a free player sticking with the game long enough to start wanting to buy stuff in the store and/or subscribe. But that's an added bonus rather than my primary concern.
*Personally I favour a menu option to let players choose to accept free player tells, but a one-for-one reply allowance works too.
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As a channel moderator, I can say without one shred of doubt that I want to play the game not have to patrol for spammers joining the global channels I take care of.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
People not paying $15 at least, don't deserve it, but $45 is obscene. It's also not limiting RMT because last I checked player had to be (or could be set to have to be) unsilenced before they can chat. Or wouldn't that require a bit of player input? Oh God forbid VIPs have to lift a finger and pitch in to make the game better. Try again, I'm really trying to be civil about this, but that excuse doesn't fly and it just shows how bad the situation is.
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The channel moderators are not slaves to people that can't show enough commitment to the game to either subscribe or get to tier 4 reward level. The "woe is them" excuse doesn't fly either.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
This requires the channel to be set up that way by its (player, volunteer) moderators, who by doing so are signing up to keep on top of unsilencing new joiners. The channels are not set that way by default.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I cannot speak for everyone else who posted, but I personally am not talking about people who aren't paying. I'm talking about me, who pays, and is prevented from receiving tells from free players. I did not have a choice in the matter and there is no amount of money I can pay to fix it. While I do pay to play the game "as is" sometimes the way it is isn't what I'd hope for.
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
What I care about is that it's impeding my own paid subscriber communications because a) I don't know if the person I just sent a tell to can reply, and b) I have to jump through extra hoops to get those who can't reply onto my teams. Maybe not by a huge amount, but when you play off-peak hours every little helps (or hinders, as the case may be).
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
*Personally I favour a menu option to let players choose to accept free player tells, but a one-for-one reply allowance works too.
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- Overly broad. It allows pure F2P all the way up to Premium Tier 8 players.
- If multiple settings are allowed, then requires more interface work would be needed.
- Slows game performance with yet another check. The current setup only requires a check at the time of sending the tell, not constantly in case a tell is received.
- Pure F2P players do not have any investment to lose for spamming.
- Global Ignore lists aren't effective in curbing RMTs.
- Global Ignore lists lump people I want to ignore in with spammers.
- Not all options are saved consistently.
- Some options are flaky and change without user interaction.
- Switching characters has the possibility to change even existing options. Try setting XP to be disabled or a hide setting then switching characters, sometimes the option "sticks".
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I saw you comment on this earlier, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Any level of Premium can already send tells - I was only thinking with regards to blocking/allowing the haven't-spent-anything-yet players (as in the first of the three classes of player: free, premium, vip).|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Okay, here are my reasons for not wanting a menu option to let players choose to accept free player tells:
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My reason for preferring that option is that personally I'm willing to put up with the RMT spam (I was here at its worst, so I know what I'd be letting myself in for) in order not to have any complications or workarounds for my full unfettered communications, however slight those complications may (or may not) be. But I know that others would find that to be totally unacceptable, so I'd just like to be able to opt in for myself and let others stay as they are now.
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Especially when you get to keep the utensils and use them to eat free food forever after at the same restaurant. Oh, and the waiter also says, "We keep the $45, but you can use it as credit to purchase from the wine list."
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Originally Posted by Dispari
If my dinner is free I don't think I'll complain.
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Because posters in this thread are talking about 5-6 different groups with different levels of chat access.|
Originally Posted by Biowraith
I saw you comment on this earlier, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Any level of Premium can already send tells - I was only thinking with regards to blocking/allowing the haven't-spent-anything-yet players (as in the first of the three classes of player: free, premium, vip).
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Types of chat access talked about in this thread:
- F2P ($0) being able to send tells.
- F2P ($0) being able to access broadcast.
- F2P ($0) being able to access global channels.
- F2P ($0) being able to reply to tells.
- Tier 2 Premiums ($5) being able to access global channels and global tells.
- Tier 3 Premium accounts ($45) with access to tells, broadcast, global channels, and global tells.
- VIPs not being able to receive tells from F2P ($0) players.
- VIPs not being able to receive Global Tells from players lower than Tier 4 ($45).
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Can't take the responsibility? Don't host a channel. You created it, you are labelled as a moderator, it is your responsibility. You unsilence people all the time, re-silencing them is just part of being a moderator.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
As a channel moderator, I can say without one shred of doubt that I want to play the game not have to patrol for spammers joining the global channels I take care of.
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That attitude will result in there being only two types of channels. The spam-filled and the dead.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
Can't take the responsibility? Don't host a channel. You created it, you are labelled as a moderator, it is your responsibility. You unsilence people all the time, re-silencing them is just part of being a moderator.
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People who moderate the globals take some of their play time to try to provide a better environment for the rest of us. Unless you're willing to do the same, your appropriate responses are either gratitude or silence.
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No it won't, that's RMT paranoia talking. Spending 5 minutes a day (less than that after the first few days) to unsilence new people in the channel is not going to cause a cascade failure. It's called responsibility, and if people don't take it, we get petty threats like this as a facade for the real issues.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
That attitude will result in there being only two types of channels. The spam-filled and the dead.
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Fact: I can spend $5 and create a program that sends RMT mail to every person in the game. Really, just $5, no joke. Premium members get in-game mail. I can also spend $5 and spam messages to everyone.
I just can't join a channel with MUCH less people in it and spam them because it's $45. Then again I couldn't do that in the first place if channel moderators owned up to their responsibilities and checked my name before unsilencing.
RMT is a facade, a long past event that still grips people with paranoia and allows Paragon to get away with taking away a well nigh essential part of the game experience. Free players shouldn't get squat, but premium players that pay when they can? They deserve respect.
I'm okay with that for both my VIP account (going on close to 80 months), and my premium account (around 3 months).
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