Street Justice and general points refunds.
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-10-05 09:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
YES this is the point.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I would simply offer that your definition of "good enough" in this case may differ from someone else's. *shrugs*
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Not everyone is going to be happy with a purchase, they need to put a refund system or be bombarded by these kinds of posts every time they put out a paid set that isnt near the top.
Beam is probably the 3rd strongest ranged set only behind fire and archery.
Stj is firmly entrenched in middle of the pack of bleh. Thats not good enough for me.
My opinion, my right to have that opinion.
So unless they want this everytime someone doesnt like a paid set, they need to make a refund system.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I doubt that has anything to do with it.|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
A LOT of people love the street justice set, so it was clearly a powerset which they felt was more of a premium set than time manipulation.
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Who uses Time Manip most? Corrs and fenders (fenders at least when it gets fixed sometime in the distant future...)?
Where will you find Street Justice the most? Scrappers....
Disclaimer: Number are off, used only for illustrative purposes.
All ranged ATs combined = 675,202 toons
Scrappers = 3,156,646,344 toons
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Quote:
But buying a set without knowing what you get because they choose to hide the power numbers in the most obscure place possible|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
A LOT of people love the street justice set, so it was clearly a powerset which they felt was more of a premium set than time manipulation.
IMO its one of my favourite sets ingame, thats what the whole point of the paragon market was i thought. YOU chose what ones you want to buy. |
Not right.
Different people will have different opinions.
TO me this set was NOT worth my money.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you have yet to give the powerset a fair run through, and are only complaining because you assumed the set was going to be the next Super Strength in terms of potential. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
TO me this set was NOT worth my money.
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I wish you luck on getting your refund. Just be calm, level-headed and avoid using hyperbole when talking with customer service.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but OP has a point.
Now that we are buying sets a la carte, people will choose to buy or not buy sets based on the qualities of those sets. To ensure that the most customers possible are happy with what they buy, it does fall upon the devs to provide as complete and accurate information about the product as possible before purchase.
There are many ways that this could be done in the future, as new tech is implemented: allow a character to be built all the way to the registration step with an unpurchased set before requiring purchase to continue, allow characters with unpurchased sets to be created on a test server with the accurate live numbers, or whatever other solution meets the needs of the customers and developers.
However, there is one thing the developers can do right now, with only the tech that is live at this moment: when a new powerset is released, post a list of all the correct in-game names of all the powers for every AT that gets it, so that we can pull up the existing in-game information sheets on those powers. It's not an ideal solution, but it can be done immediately, and I think it should.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
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Quote:
There was no reason for it to go back on test - it WORKED. Changing a few numeric values would not require a second round of testing.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
The set was changed from the time it came off beta but before live, and did not go back on test.
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| There was no way to view the real stats before purchasing, so again I feel this was a somewhat deceptive. |
1) You could have gone to the test server and checked out every detail.
2) Typing the power name into the chat window will bring up the power details for ANY power in the game. Try typing [Dry Heave] in the chat line.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
You probably have grounds to ask for a refund then, especially if the set you beta tested was not the set you bought.
Paragon Really do need to allow people to try before they buy when it comes to powersets. |
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Quote:
Can I have my money back for GR since I found Praetoria to be a waste of my money?|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I can't believe I'm saying this, but OP has a point.
Now that we are buying sets a la carte, people will choose to buy or not buy sets based on the qualities of those sets. To ensure that the most customers possible are happy with what they buy, it does fall upon the devs to provide as complete and accurate information about the product as possible before purchase. There are many ways that this could be done in the future, as new tech is implemented: allow a character to be built all the way to the registration step with an unpurchased set before requiring purchase to continue, allow characters with unpurchased sets to be created on a test server with the accurate live numbers, or whatever other solution meets the needs of the customers and developers. However, there is one thing the developers can do right now, with only the tech that is live at this moment: when a new powerset is released, post a list of all the correct in-game names of all the powers for every AT that gets it, so that we can pull up the existing in-game information sheets on those powers. It's not an ideal solution, but it can be done immediately, and I think it should. |
I didn't get to try it out before I bought it. I was not subscribed at the time of Beta and came back after if was live.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
However, there is one thing the developers can do right now, with only the tech that is live at this moment: when a new powerset is released, post a list of all the correct in-game names of all the powers for every AT that gets it, so that we can pull up the existing in-game information sheets on those powers. It's not an ideal solution, but it can be done immediately, and I think it should.
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Granted, people will still complain hours and levels after the fact, but finalized info before purchase is only fair.
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For the most part I'm happy with Street Justice, but I 100% agree with the sentiment that there should be a way to preview powersets before buying them. Not play with them, but at the very least show the numbers and animations in-game without forcing the player to go and do research.
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While that's true it does seem a little counter-intuitive for a game with a hybrid payment model that *wants* people to spend money in the store.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You can check out all of the powerset's power names in the actual game. All you need is the power names, and you can see that at character creation. And if you can't, ask.
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It would be good if, much like the various purchasable costume pieces, players could see individual powerset ability numbers prior to purchase. Now I know it can be found online, in game or by asking - but that still feels like needless obfuscation when there's a perfectly serviceable store UI for it.
I like StJ, it's damage feels very middle of the road but it's a FUN set to play - which is all I'm after in a game. Hats off to the animator!
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you cant compare a package purchase to a single purchase.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Can I have my money back for GR since I found Praetoria to be a waste of my money?
I didn't get to try it out before I bought it. I was not subscribed at the time of Beta and came back after if was live. |
If you liked NOTHING about going rogue then you would have a point.
I hate praetoria too, its useless, but I love elec control, so I accept that as part of the package.
This is a purchase of one and ONLY one thing
Street Justice, and I dont like it.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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And to your point, it wouldn't take me long to go find posts of people complaining about how much they dislike beam rifle....|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
YES this is the point.
Not everyone is going to be happy with a purchase, they need to put a refund system or be bombarded by these kinds of posts every time they put out a paid set that isnt near the top. Beam is probably the 3rd strongest ranged set only behind fire and archery. |
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
But buying a set without knowing what you get because they choose to hide the power numbers in the most obscure place possible.
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I've been using it since they added the ability to drag and drop recipes and powers onto the chat bar. It helped drive a lot of early Incarnate ability discussion, and is also how people got a sneak peak at Staff Fighting details.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Not right.
Different people will have different opinions. TO me this set was NOT worth my money. |
Likewise, for others, the set is about far more than how wonderful it's AOE is... the set is just fun!
And that makes it worth the points for me (and apparently others).
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I just did. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
you cant compare a package purchase to a single purchase.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
If you liked NOTHING about going rogue then you would have a point.
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Neither of us are going to get our money back. There are ways to obtain more AoE outside of the Primary for Brutes. Mu Mastery is the defacto MOAR AOE Patron. Most brutes who want more AoE go this route and have for many years. You can also pair SJ with a secondary that has a damage aura and/or a power like Burn to make-up for the lack of AoE damage.
These options exist for a reason.
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Originally Posted by Chyll
And to your point, it wouldn't take me long to go find posts of people complaining about how much they dislike beam rifle....
Shame you didn't know about that feature. I've been using it since they added the ability to drag and drop recipes and powers onto the chat bar. It helped drive a lot of early Incarnate ability discussion, and is also how people got a sneak peak at Staff Fighting details. Understood. Likewise, for others, the set is about far more than how wonderful it's AOE is... the set is just fun! And that makes it worth the points for me (and apparently others). |
You have pretty much made my point for me.
I loved beam rifle, Im happy with my purchase.
I despise StJ I am not happy with my purchase
Like it or not, leaving customers unhappy with their purchase with no recourse.
ITS NOT GOOD BUSINESS!!!
Some people are not going to be happy for whatever reason or no reason.
There needs to be an automated refund.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
OP: Try items/powers out on Test before you buy, and only use the MPPPs give as a VIP stipend (dole?). That was you know what you're getting before hand and it costs you nothing extra but a little patience.
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The OP had a lot of bluster and incorrect 'facts', but I do agree that some things should be refundable. Of course, if you want a refund of a powerset, it should give you warning that any character using that set will be flat-out DELETED from your account.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I can't believe I'm saying this, but OP has a point.
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That would be the only way a refund could work but I can anticipate people not paying attention and ending up screaming bloody murder on the forums about toons being deleted, or it was carrying a lot of inf, etc, etc.
The question is: which is the worse can of worms: having refunds, or not having them?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Can I have my money back for GR since I found Praetoria to be a waste of my money?
I didn't get to try it out before I bought it. I was not subscribed at the time of Beta and came back after if was live. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
To ensure that the most customers possible are happy with what they buy, it does fall upon the devs to provide as complete and accurate information about the product as possible before purchase.
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Of course, the safest option for those who want to make informed purchases is always to wait until early adopters have made the purchase and feedback on the product starts coming in. I do think it behooves the developers to try to ensure that those who do make a purchase are satisfied with it, but there's a limit to the reward for effort there. I don't think the players have an inalienable right to enjoy everything they buy, and that if they don't the fault always lies with the developers.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Originally Posted by Shubbie
TO me this set was NOT worth me
There are many people who do like the set,would you expect your money back after you had eaten a burger and found a piece of onion in it,I doubt very much that you will get the refund that you want.
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If you read the article on the main web site about Street Justice, it was meant to fill a gap between martial arts and super strength. To me than means it is not the same as martial arts and it is not the same as super strength. Personally I love the set, and unless you used points you bought (since all paying customers get 400 per month as part of the sub), you really did not pay for it. Next time don't buy a new set on the day it comes out. Wait for people to post about it. Read about it on ParagonWiki. Research it and then decide if it is something you want. Personally I loved the set after playing it on beta and still love it after playing it on live.
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I have no problem with my character being deleted or locked.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
The OP had a lot of bluster and incorrect 'facts', but I do agree that some things should be refundable. Of course, if you want a refund of a powerset, it should give you warning that any character using that set will be flat-out DELETED from your account.
That would be the only way a refund could work but I can anticipate people not paying attention and ending up screaming bloody murder on the forums about toons being deleted, or it was carrying a lot of inf, etc, etc. The question is: which is the worse can of worms: having refunds, or not having them? |
Locked would make more sense since they have the technology to do so and it doesnt come with the connotations of deletion.
Also if someone later changes their mind or the powerset is changed to be better, you could purchase again and it could be unlocked.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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this.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Can I have my money back for GR since I found Praetoria to be a waste of my money?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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And yet, it's a common practice in many industries. There are plenty of situations where you can only get a refund if a product is actually defective.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Like it or not, leaving customers unhappy with their purchase with no recourse.
ITS NOT GOOD BUSINESS!!! |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
What we need is an easy to access test chamber that allows people to see how things work/look. Heck...turn a section of Pocket D into "Nulls Nest" where you can respec and play with powers at will, but there is no impact to the real world.
Sure the test server does that but is it really the best option for non-forum players?
To OP: Support ticket is the best option. I would not expect a refund but it never hurts to ask.
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I've said it once in another thread.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
So unless they want this everytime someone doesnt like a paid set, they need to make a refund system.
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Other people have said it in this thread.
But I'll say it one more time now: Caveat Emptor.
This game does NOT need to bend over backwards to make it trivial to get refunds.
The people who play this game need to take mature responsibility for their purchases.
No one FORCED you to buy this thing instantaneously. If you were really this worried about getting your money's worth out of your several dollars you would have taken some time to "read the reviews" and reactions of other people before you jumped in and thought it'd be cool to instantly whine about it the mircosecond it didn't live up to your expectations.
Please do yourself a favor and slow down, take a breath, and learn from this flailing rant how to better react to things like this in the future.
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The set is just plain weak... the aoe's are so small as to be meaningless, and a 5 target limit on one and a 10 on the other.
ITs inferior to SS in both single and aoe damage.
The set was changed from the time it came off beta but before live, and did not go back on test.
This feels rather bait and switch, even though it wasnt nerfed live.
To move onto a general point, will we be able to get refunds on sets, powers, etc that we feel disappointed with.
There was no way to view the real stats before purchasing, so again I feel this was a somewhat deceptive.
I am EXTREMELY unhappy with this.
I believe also once you bought Something, it's bought no refunds, I say give it a while, they might fix the set or adjust it for Tanking or whatever.
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