No Fat Chicks
Three words: That's not Starfire. Until she is retconned make mine Marvel.
Shameless money grab.
As to LadyGrimrose' Make mine Marvel....not anymore for me. Ever since they used Mephisto to reboot Spiderman.....ugh
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For me it's been the constant jerking around of the Juggernaut.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Shameless money grab.
As to LadyGrimrose' Make mine Marvel....not anymore for me. Ever since they used Mephisto to reboot Spiderman.....ugh |
I would've been much happier if Cain Marko had, in fact, completely gotten rid of Cyttorak during those shenanigans with Gomurr the Ancient and Doctor Strange when he escaped from the gem after Onslaught had locked him inside of it. All the ups and downs he's gone through with Cyttorak yanking his cosmic leash are annoying.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
'Twas ever thus.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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When I read the new Starfire character I was actually speechless. For a moment, speech would not form because I was so shocked and surprised that DC would so change a character. I would be disgusted enough were it a completely new character, this is the 21st Century for **** sake!
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Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
Three words: That's not Starfire. Until she is retconned make mine Marvel.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Three words :
Reboot? Bye-bye.
(I'm the SteelClaw of comic book collecting ! 
)
My reserve liste went from sixteen-or-so DC titles to only 1: "Legion of Super-Heroes" ("Long Live The Legion!"). Oh well... I'll buy more Marvel and indie books...
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I said bye-bye to that series when they did as well.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Ever since they used Mephisto to reboot Spiderman.....ugh
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And to Wonder Woman when Straczynski took over with issue #600 for the same reason.
Keep NCSoft from shutting down City of Heroes : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Three words: No big deal.
Confirmed altaholic with 70+ alts in coh and cov...yes i know thats alot! Playing coh since beta test phase.
Reboot = Drawing the line at saving me money from buying more comics
Freedom Server - Main = Lil Bug & way too many alts to list
Never read comics.
Though I was considering jumping on with this relaunch, since it seemed like a good place to start. But seeing as how there's a metric crapton of titles, a bunch of continuity that still managed to worm its way in despite being a new universe, and an utterly dumb digital download plan, I'm gonna pass.
I'm not a comics fan so I have no idea how the buisness works, but wouldn't it make more sense to stop selling individual paper issues altogether, release them all as PDFs, and only turn the trade paperbacks into actual books?
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Oh come on... You expect sanity from the american comics industry when they are one of the few aspects of any other culture that makes something in Japan look sane?|
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
Never read comics.
Though I was considering jumping on with this relaunch, since it seemed like a good place to start. But seeing as how there's a metric crapton of titles, a bunch of continuity that still managed to worm its way in despite being a new universe, and an utterly dumb digital download plan, I'm gonna pass. I'm not a comics fan so I have no idea how the buisness works, but wouldn't it make more sense to stop selling individual paper issues altogether, release them all as PDFs, and only turn the trade paperbacks into actual books? |
American Comic industry = High Quality material (as in their physical form not their contents) books, based around a niche genre, where characters and universes are passed between various teams of writers, artists, and editors AND they expect you to buy it and multiple titles and books in an arc for $3-4 per 24 pages.
Japanese Manga Industry = Cheap material books that are sold in 7-14 titles with a target demographic along side collections of specific titles... and every title is written/drawn/edited by the same team (roughly)... all for what $20-ish? I don't know the exact prices.
I think the Japanese model is sooo much better. From a creators point of view and readers point of view. it's cheaper. I can read more titles in a genre that i like... they are tons of genres. The quality generally stays the same or rises. And because the way the publishing works the writers can actually finish the story they are writing even if they intended it to go on much longer. With the Manga Model you know when you are in trouble, when your up for renewel or being dropped, etc... where as in the american model they often cut a book for little to no reason other than a publisher decided they didn't like that style any more or wanted to use that character in a different story. *cough Young Justice cough*
American comics are more or less completely mismanaged and while it's interesting to see the process that MYTHS were done in to a degree the fact is Anime and Manga are a superior product in general.
And the whole digital distribution is utter BS as well. They are throwing up the front that they are protecting the brick and mortar stores, but in reality it's that they want to cover their interests if the digital distribution fails, which it will with this model, and to get more money because they aren't paying for the expensive materials to produce physical copies.
Personally I'd like a manga-esque publishing style system combined with a web-publisher type deal where perspective authors send in their work, an editor looks it over, and then if it's good they accept it and run or whatever... but not in a "publication" but rather in a web based publication where a user pays a fee to gain access to the entire library or single fees for a collection, either from a specific genre or a specific title... The creative team would get paid a flat rate based on various things like years they have been published and how successful their book is which would be based on a number of web stats and filled out forms.
3 words.....
....Just came out.
Don't I know you???
Aquaman is Awesome
seriously this was a great first issue.
Let's see,
Green Arrow now resembles Roy, no idea how Roy now fits in, I assume Mia no longer exists, as does Conner and Arrowette, since GA is too young. And assume no romance angle with Dinah. I would've had him being one of the older heroes around, and made minor changes
Starfire,
Other than sharing the same name, powers and look, not the same. They basically nuked the classic Titans history( Beast Boy, Cyborg, Donna, Dick, etc), and not for the better.
Flash Family
basically they were nuked
Batman Family
its hard to reconcile there being minimale changes, when his entire family is MIA, or very different histories, Cassandra or Stephanie anyone?
Secret Six
<sigh>
Catwoman <sigh>
I really could go on and on,
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What exactly is wrong with the new Starfire? Now I fear to pick up the new Red Hood and the Outlaws.
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Originally Posted by Jagged
When I read the new Starfire character I was actually speechless. For a moment, speech would not form because I was so shocked and surprised that DC would so change a character. I would be disgusted enough were it a completely new character, this is the 21st Century for **** sake!
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Have you ever heard of a Real Doll? she's that but can move on her own and blasts things with energy bolts.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
What exactly is wrong with the new Starfire? Now I fear to pick up the new Red Hood and the Outlaws.
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Quote:
http://geeks.thedailywh.at/2011/09/2...cs-of-the-day/|
Originally Posted by BrandX
What exactly is wrong with the new Starfire? Now I fear to pick up the new Red Hood and the Outlaws.
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Warning: Spoilers
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/0...-superheroine/
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Again: That isn't Starfire. Give her to a writer that cares about the past incarnation. Everything I saw points to Blackfire, not Starfire.
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Basically rip out every ounce of personality and emotion and leave nothing but a walking doll that blows things up and has sex with just about anyone no strings attached, since apparently her species has no long term memories and are incapable of telling one human apart from another.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
What exactly is wrong with the new Starfire? Now I fear to pick up the new Red Hood and the Outlaws.
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Frankly I was just disgusted by the thing, pretty much one of the worst comics I've read in a long time.
Take your money and spend it on Aquaman instead.
Edit: Seriously I found Aquaman to be a really good book. Probably one of the best books this week
And they're response to the outcry is just, "Pay attention to the ratings"? That is not the point! The point is the Starfire from before would never kill without deep rooted remorse and even then she would go above and beyond to avoid such. It took her years to get beyond Dick Grayson, years and the parting was as two adults that knew it was time to move on. Up until then the fans were waiting to see if they would be together. Starfire would never jump from bed to bed, let alone forget her partner the next day. No, your writer botched his assignment. That is not Starfire. And for the literal slap in the face... Thanks, I'll stick with my game and my writing. At least my characters are treated with respect and dignity without a single one of them acting like some detached barbie doll. Kudos! Until I see some major changes (retcons, never thought I'd wish for that) I'm done with comics period.
Misogyny rules comics.
That'd be my three word summary of DC comics right now, and Teen Titans sits on the top of the pile. I read a very good and concise summary of both Catwoman and Starfire's characters (along with the males in the story, who're either acting like teenage jocks or in Batman's case, apparently not thinking at all) and the women are being written as male fantasy figures.
I agree completely, that is not Starfire, Princess Koriand'r of Tamaran and founding member of the New Teen Titans. So what if there's some reason she can't remember people or throws herself at any male she sees? The point is that this is a first issue, and the very first impressions we have of her as a character is that of a nymphomaniac sex doll who essentially poses for the ogling of by male characters and is devoid of any kind of emotions.
And the male characters high-fiving each other over that fact is just as disgusting. I understand that DC was forced into this position because the higher ups wanted to be able to do movies and compete with Marvel, but they have completely missed the point in rebooting this universe.
I'm willing to predict the first month sales will be worse than they're expecting and there'll be casualties amongst the 52 books. And more than that, I think this will ultimately prove to be a failure for no other reason than it's polarising readers so heavily.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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My advice? Don't. If you ever liked the Starfire character just take our word and avoid it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
What exactly is wrong with the new Starfire? Now I fear to pick up the new Red Hood and the Outlaws.
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I have cancelled all my DC pick ups and if my son was into comics at all I would ban him from buying them. I wish I also had a daughter so I could ban her from buying them as well
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I am going to assume the first month or two sales will be good, followed by a nose dive. People will buy a comic once or twice out of curosity, but if the quality isn't there, well.... Lets be blunt here, DC is going for quantity over quality here.
I think a few things will cripple their efforts here,
when comics were a $1 or less, it was easier for younger readers to get into comics,
Now with the avg cost being $3 or $4 that changes things,
Add in availability, I seem to remember when I was kid, being able to find comics at a lot more places than I can now( yes I am a child of the '70's), now outside of specialty shops. I may find at best a handful of comics on sale.
Part of the problem is that all the GOOD QUALITY books are those books which the average reader is not going to pick up. The sales in those titles are coming from sales to those already entrenched in comics or are just picking up random stuff or picking up all the books. While the new readers are all going for books that they'd heard of... and those books are either not rebooted (but are?) or have such disrespectful, badly written, or are just what they are looking for writing that more than likely they going to not get them again.
By the way if you want a good book with women who are half naked. Go look at Voodoo.
So with most of the DCnU books out now... if you were trying to come up with 1 to 3 words to tell me about this new universe or whatever you want to call it... what would they be?
I think the 1 word that comes to mind when I think on it is... Shallow
Action Comics - While some may argue that this is a younger Superman and thus can act differently the CORE character is not the same. This young character could never evolve into the older character because the core character is completely different.
Animal Man - The character has aspirations of greatness and taking care of his family and all that but when you really look at the character he's SHALLOW. He doesn't use his powers and doesn't try to make his life better nor does he try for his children to put up with something. That character's wife should be furious over that but she isn't and that's why it's not a well written shallow character but a character that is shallow because the writer isn't looking at the character beyond the surface.
Batgirl - Strong character turned to weak character and erased epic history... where it doesn't make sense to eve be acting the way she acts. She's been shot at and hit millions of times in her past as Batgirl and so her getting hit and paralyzed wouldn't make her scared of the Joker or Guns, but rather of not being Batgirl in the sense of lowering her guard which is what happened. This character shows no thought was put into her as a character and her motivations and as such we get a character that is "scared" of guns and is weak...So shallow
Batman - Well written ^.^
Batman and Robin - Shows a total misunderstanding of the characters which is kinda funky cuz the voice is right, but the ideas put forward are contrary to the ideas of those characters and how they view things... again it's a shallow surface read rather than an understanding of the character.
Batwing - We know nothing about this character and what we do know is nothing more than a African mix of Batman and Nightwing...right down to the name. We have no motivations. We have no backstory. We have nothing but a Tuvix like character.
Batwoman - Kate's treatment of Bette, the killing of Renee Montoya, and the demotion of Maggie Sawyer... the former is idiotic considering the Bette has been a hero longer and has powers while the latter 2 seems like homophobic crap to me.
Birds of Prey - This title is selling on name alone. This team has no reason to exist without Oracle and the fact they don't realize that again shows just how shallow they are.
Blue Beetle - A rip off, personality wise, of Peter Parker mixed with several other things... this is cashing in on some properties and minority filling more or less. This character always seemed to be like someone in marketing made them up rather than the character having any soul behind it and it really shows especially with how shallow the rest of the line up is.
Captain Atom - The inner monologue and the actions of the character don't match. That they didn't notice this really shows they don't get how actions and thoughts are interrelated...and as such is a shallow view of the world.
Catwoman - She doesn't act like Catwoman. Catwoman is all about freedom and letting emotions guide her while valuing life... She shows the opposite in every major point in the comic except one where it was done just to be "edgey." Again that they don't understand her character really shows and screams shallowness
DC Universe Presents - Well written...but about a shallow character
Deathstroke - Because what's more shallow than having to TELL your audience this character is a certain way instead of showing them multiple times?
Mister Terrific - Doing it when you're the 3rd smartest person in the world v.v and badly written in general...at least Deathstroke is just shallow characterization... This comic is like looking through the eyes of someone who is completely detached from reality.
Demon Knights - Yay let's put the JL in the Darkages with C-list characters or worse with a bad romance and crap arthurian legend.
Detective Comics - Gore... shallow but the cuts are deep i guess?
Frankenstein - woohoo SHIELD rip off + reintro of characters that are just soldiers who wanted superpowers rather than heroes that were lied to...
Green Arrow - This isn't smallville... REALLY!
Ok that's enough... most of the comics are just really shallow either in what they're offering, their conception, how they're written, or their understanding of the characters or characterizations... or some other things...
How many secret agencies are there now?
How many of these titles are rip offs?
How many of these are simply there because they have a minority main character?
How many of these don't have women in their underwear or naked or have them slutted up?
This is my mind is what you get when you pour marvel tropes in Gen X world views onto DC and drowning out all the depth in favor of selling a bajillion titles. It's like DC is now in Plato's cave where all heroes and role models are projected on a wall through a filter to create some distorted image that leads not to the light but down into a much darker pit.