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I'm guessing you can't buy them because you're still a VIP, so you get access to them as part of your sub. |
Originally Posted by Nyx
Im not angry, but Im sad, and I feel sort of duped. I am a VIP for now...and although that is super, and I have made the point od stating that I will be VIP whenever I can be...I still feel jilted...just a little...and here is why!!!!
The issue I have is that before hand I was not allow to buy them just put them in my wish list, which means not being able to unlock 2 toons becausue I might not have the money. |
Trying to step down to Premium and retain access to everything you've had before is not going to be cheap. This is by design, as Paragon Studios want you to stay a VIP if at all possible.
Character index
You should be able to make masterminds as a vip and the epics unlock at level 20.
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Just to note, even when they first were talking about pricing possibilities, MMs and Controllers were listed at 1200pp. I have NO IDEA where you got 600pp from. I suspect you don't either.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
Controller and MM's were advertized as 600 points (If I recall) So I saved my points. Only to find that it has been moved to 1200 points.
.... I feel walmarted....only cheaper |
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Even if they had originally been listed at 600 points, Beta prices do NOT constitute an advertisement, nothing in Beta does as it is subject to change. That is the point of Beta.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Just to note, even when they first were talking about pricing possibilities, MMs and Controllers were listed at 1200pp. I have NO IDEA where you got 600pp from. I suspect you don't either.
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This is not bait and switch, as long as you maintain a sub you lose nothing and in fact gain a few things. To expect VIP-level access on an account that is not VIP status is frankly insane and I don't understand how you can possibly walk around in the world if you believe such things.
You know what used to happen if you stopped subbing? You couldn't play. At all. You know what happens now? You can still play, you just can't access a few things that you can as a VIP.
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They went out of their way to post in all the major threads discussing market prices during Beta that prices weren't finalized.
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still a bit much...1200 points for a single AT
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While true, tier 5 unlocks them. Which i think is about oh, 12 reward token? Or about $180 worth of points, or about a year subscribing now (used to be 33 months, almost 3 years) And that unlock works forever..|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
still a bit much...1200 points for a single AT
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the AT unlocks, as well the other things at unlock via the tier system (inventions, AE, etc) are only there if you flat out refuse to be a VIP customer for any length of time, but still want access to things VIPs have.
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I know we can't do compare/constrast posts, but was looking at the classes/races of various other hybrid-model systems, and this seems pretty much the norm.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
still a bit much...1200 points for a single AT
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... and an even better deal, when you consider how many primary/secondary combinations unlock under Mastermind. The other games are usually unlocking a single class. Some are unlocking it once, for one character. Some you have to unlock both classes and races, and some have 1/2 to 3/4 of the classes and races locked by default.
Oh my god are we making ANOTHER one of these threads??
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Actually yes. Thanks. Love the animation though. Super swell.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Oh my god are we making ANOTHER one of these threads??
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My issue was the that during the VIP Headstart, the prices for certain things were marked down but there was NO WAY of purchasing them.
HOW can you mark something down or have a sale on something but not allow it to be purchased? Defeats the sales point right?
Controllers were 600 points to unlock, but being VIP I had no ability to unlock them during the sale. None! Nada! Nill!
Now, the VIP headstart is done. Freedom is up. ATs are 1200 to unlock! NOW...I have an option to unlock them! Just now!
The rest of the stuff out there I don't care about. But 1200 to unlock an AT is expensive even for someone who has amassed a healthy amount of points.
The issue here is...why offer a sale on something that no one can buy!
I don't remeber they're being any sale on controllers. I think you have a sale on controllrs mixed up with a sale on beam rifle of something.
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Nope. Said 600 points.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
I don't remeber they're being any sale on controllers. I think you have a sale on controllrs mixed up with a sale on beam rifle of something.
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But I could only wish list it. Else I would have spent the points on it right away! I still have something like 850-900 some odd points available, which were intended on buying the controller.
That being said, Ill be premium for maybe a week. I was only planning on keeping the points to unlock the controller just in case something happened.
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I am so sick of seeing this argument because it gets trotted out every single time anybody questions the pricing/access of game features in the new payment model. The argument is basically "well it's better than nothing so ALL GLORY TO PARAGON STUDIOS, THEY CAN DO NO WRONG."|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
You know what used to happen if you stopped subbing? You couldn't play. At all. You know what happens now? You can still play, you just can't access a few things that you can as a VIP.
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It could be like "yes f2p players can level only to 30 and can't slot anything more than TO and can't accept missions so they can only street sweep" and if someone mentions "man that doesn't seem fair / a good idea / fun" all you'll see is "well its better than nothing, so take it and be happy with it, peasant."
Yes, obviously the goal of the subscription plan is to make money and to entice people into becoming VIPs. However, you have to show the free players enough of the game, and price content fairly, so that while they see what they're missing they also get enough to know that it's enjoyable, and know that should they subscribe, they'll get their money's worth out of it.
Therefore, it doesn't make sense to pounce on people for daring to question the prices set in the store. It's a valid concern, and it's in your best interest anyway to see that they're set fairly (for a number of reasons).
Count me in the camp of not remembering archetypes being in sale. I remember beam rifle, enhancement boosters, and the self and ally revive powers, but that's all that's been on sale so far, isn't it?
Having said that, I do believe that VIPs should be allowed to purchase stuff that we have access to as VIPs in the event that our subscription lapses for some reason. I'd be all for a dialog box or something that warns you, "PLEASE NOTE: You already have access to this!", but it should let you buy it. The logic should be something like:
- Has the player already bought it? If so, deny the ability to buy it.
- Has the player already acquired it via Paragon Rewards? If so, deny the ability to buy it.
- Is the player a VIP?
YES:
- Has the player subscribed to enough time such that they player can acquire it without paying extra? If so, warn the player and suggest waiting.
NO:
- Warn the player that they already have access to it via their VIP status, and suggest the player simply keep their VIP status until they earn it via alternate means.
If none of the above hold true, let the player add it to their cart normally.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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This. Whether or not Nyx' information is correct about the pricing in this particular example, the wider issue is that VIPs are blocked from purchasing things that they may want access to when they go premium. Things that may be on sale while they're VIP, but go off sale by the time they drop to Premium and actually want/need them.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Having said that, I do believe that VIPs should be allowed to purchase stuff that we have access to as VIPs in the event that our subscription lapses for some reason. I'd be all for a dialog box or something that warns you, "PLEASE NOTE: You already have access to this!", but it should let you buy it. The logic should be something like:
- Has the player already bought it? If so, deny the ability to buy it. - Has the player already acquired it via Paragon Rewards? If so, deny the ability to buy it. - Is the player a VIP? YES: - Has the player subscribed to enough time such that they player can acquire it without paying extra? If so, warn the player and suggest waiting. NO: - Warn the player that they already have access to it via their VIP status, and suggest the player simply keep their VIP status until they earn it via alternate means. If none of the above hold true, let the player add it to their cart normally. |
VIP's should be able to buy stuff that they'd lose access to as a Premium player. There should be a warning that they have access to it while they maintain their subscription, and a warning that they can unlock it via the rewards program, but the only time it should actually prevent a purchase is if they have already unlocked it for use under the Premium tier (either through prior purchase or via the rewards program).
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The reason is simple: Because there are a lot of folks who think they've struck a pretty good balance with the Paragon Store between giving enough of the game away that free players should be satisfied, but holding enough back to be an incentive to fork over some dough.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
I am so sick of seeing this argument because it gets trotted out every single time anybody questions the pricing/access of game features in the new payment model.
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The thing is, no matter what Paragon Studios locks behind payment, someone is going to complain. And what I'm sick of seeing is complaint threads about every single aspect of the game that is locked. Every. Single. One.
If everyone were clamoring, for example, that Controllers should be free, then it wouldn't bother me so much. And I don't think there's animosity towards Nyx specifically. It's just that after 10 threads and hundreds of posts of everyone complaining about their particular cause, it gets really old. If they had picked locking the color green behind payment, or names with the letter Z, or the brain exposed head style, or the ledgesit emote, we'd still have threads complaining about how it's essential for someone's enjoyment of the game.
It's gotten to the point where no one really cares any more about what specifically someone is complaining about, which is why I say it's not animosity towards Nyx specifically. Nyx's post wasn't even particularly whiny. It's just that at some point, folks have got to accept what is locked, accept what the prices are, understand that they probably won't get 100% of what they want for free, and enjoy what they do have access to.
Speaking of which, is a heck of a lot. It's not like Paragon Studios has gimped the game to be unplayable for free players, which is why folks like me get irritated at what we perceive as entitlement mania. It's a LOT of game, and even if there's something specific you want, that you feel you have to have such as the Controller archetype, we feel that forking over $15 as a one-time purchase really ain't so bad.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Deeeead horses... De...de...deeaaaad horses. Dead horses aren't much fun.
Again, Freedom was never meant to be a way for subscribers to step and down play for free. And no, Incarnates should not be unlocked for premiums because it was meant as a sneak peak nothing more, yada, yada, yada... I'm hoping the mods combine all of these into one big thread once a red name posts to clear it all up. As it stands. VIPs are meant to have more the. Premiums. If, you haven't paid for it you need to pay to have it unlocked. And, again, the hid nothing from anyone. Go to the page describing who has access to what and have a fill. Me, I'm counting down until most of these get locked.
I wish the Paragon Store had Walmart's business model. Walmart is all about low-cost, high volume sales. The Paragon Store's current business model is much closer to Tiffany's (high price, low volume. Just look at those Faberge Enhancement Trays.)
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Actually is seems more like Mr Rental to me.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
I wish the Paragon Store had Walmart's business model. Walmart is all about low-cost, high volume sales. The Paragon Store's current business model is much closer to Tiffany's (high price, low volume. Just look at those Faberge Enhancement Trays.)
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Then people should say that instead of using an invalid argument that I'm sick of seeing too, because it shows up in Every. Single. One. of the aforementioned complaint threads.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
The thing is, no matter what Paragon Studios locks behind payment, someone is going to complain. And what I'm sick of seeing is complaint threads about every single aspect of the game that is locked. Every. Single. One.
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Ack!
Ok. People. I didn't say controllers should be free! (Although I think they should) I didn't say things should not be bought or paid for.
What I am saying is that the points system stating that during the VIP head start you had the option to buy things, unlock things with the points you had, but there was no functionality that actually allowed this in case someone wished to go premium.
For example. I bought Beam Rifle. I can, now if I go back into the store purchase beam rifle again...and again, and again, and again.
I could not purchase the unlock for the controller. Regardless of being on sale or not, the functionality did not allow for the purchase because It technically was unlocked because of VIP status. Which can be misleading to people.
To clarify, Im stating that the points system is reliant on the functionality of being able to unlock things through a buy option, but said option is either not there, or is there even for things you already have purchased.
Yes I would have unlocked the controller. No I would not have paid for the MM, Rocket Board and other said items because I don't find them appealing to me.
But I am mostly concerned about functionality, and for people stating that I am complaining about locked content, I am most certainly not.
Im saying that the VIP head start offered frill, powers etc, with buy option functionality. Which got people to spend their points. Market changes and the magical appearence of the now "Buy Button" irks me because I did not have the options I wanted before available to unlock.
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The problem, though, is that it ISN'T an invalid argument.
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Originally Posted by Machariel
Then people should say that instead of using an invalid argument that I'm sick of seeing too, because it shows up in Every. Single. One. of the aforementioned complaint threads.
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No, you can't. You can add it to your cart all day long, but you can't "buy" it.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
For example. I bought Beam Rifle. I can, now if I go back into the store purchase beam rifle again...and again, and again, and again.
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However, as to the rest of your point... which I thought was very clear in the OP... I agree with you. I think you should be able to check a little box or something that says "Allow purchase of items already unlocked by VIP Status" that way, by default, folks wouldn't buy things they already have access to, yet could still be ready for when and if that account stops being VIP. However, I don't see this being an issue for me personally, if I have to go Premium, I will just play around with whatever options I have at that time knowing that I will eventually be VIP again and unlocking things will be a waste.
Nyx, I don't want to get into the argument about the game and the store, but I do want to help you find the best way to get that Controller. Though far as I remember you also had IO's on it and had a problem with them getting disabled. But assuming that's somehow solved (you've decided to pay the $2 rental for example), let's see how far you are from unlocking the Controller.
How many reward tokens do you have now? And how many Paragon Points? Each VIP month gives you another token and 400PP, so even if you don't have any PP then after 3 VIP months you should be able to buy the controller without paying extra.
So Im sad.
Im not angry, but Im sad, and I feel sort of duped. I am a VIP for now...and although that is super, and I have made the point od stating that I will be VIP whenever I can be...I still feel jilted...just a little...and here is why!!!!
I had points. I bought beam rifle. I bought some lovely costume chunks, but I thought I made the right choice of keeping my point spending to the min so I could unlock my controller...in case of unplanned down time.
Controller and MM's were advertized as 600 points (If I recall) So I saved my points. Only to find that it has been moved to 1200 points.
The issue I have is that before hand I was not allow to buy them just put them in my wish list, which means not being able to unlock 2 toons becausue I might not have the money.
Veats and Epic Khelds ok
But controller were around from day one, as were MM's when city of villains went live.
I guess my concern is that...(I know the arguments) it feels like when another game offered points, went free to play (eventually) but offered their sotrefron filled with frill.
You really could not buy more than "Action Figures" or glorfied un-battle pet. Then when they went to F2P, people who had been loyal spent their points on frill only to then have products appear, and then change in the market. This then resulted in people having to put more money into their account to buy the things that came with the game, or they needed to access their older toons.
So what I am saying is not as friendly as I think it should be, but I feel as though bait and switch are the words I want to use. I feel like I was given a price...no buy option (Only wishlist) told what I could get, and told what was available, and once the rush was done...the frill rush...the cost changed, the prices exploded, and nothing was there to indicate that this was going to happen.
I feel walmarted....only cheaper