The one thing I can't stand in this game
What do you want us to tell you? We have more than enough respecs for any reasonable player and if that's not enough there's a whole server where you can change your build as many times as you want.
And that's still not enough for you? What do you want, unlimited free respecs? Well, I guess the game is already so easy that making it even easier won't do any harm... ![]() What exactly is the point of this thread? If the game isn't for you, then, well, the door's right that way... |
Are the respecs that already exist enough for me? No. For me to enjoy a game, I need to be assured that respecs are unlimited, and obtaining one - including all required farming - is fairly easy; it doesn't need to be free, but obtaining one should take a couple dozen minutes, perhaps up to one hour. Otherwise I get frustrated too easily with my character, which leads to me leaving the game.
In CoH, though, the limited availability of respecs seem needed to control the availability of high end enhancements (given the way respecs currently work). So, while the only way for me to keep playing the game would be to have much easier access to them, I'm not sure it would be the best for the game.
What was the point of the thread? Mostly providing feedback to the developers why I wouldn't stay. I like to at least attempt to provide a feedback if I enjoyed the game or ended up liking the developers - who knows, they might take it into account and make games I enjoy even more
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I never had a recurrent plan to this game - I used the trial, new game codes, and game time cards to play. So, I was never given a chance to tell the developers why I left before, and will most likely not have a chance this last time too; this specific forum seemed the best place to post it.
BTW, unless you want the game to cater to a very small niche, a MMO better be fairly easy; most of the players out there are casual and not very skilled players, who will change games as needed until they find something they can enjoy a reasonable degree of success. Does not mean everything in the game needs to be easy, just that even an unskilled player needs to feel like he isn't forever stuck, like he can accomplish things.
OP, what is the purpose of this thread?
If your goal is to express that you don't play City of Heroes because of the design decision to limit respecs, well, okay - there are a lot of people who don't play City of Heroes, and all of them have reasons. You're one and this is yours.
If your goal is to move the developers toward granting unlimited respecs, with your subscription dollars as an incentive for doing so, then I think you need to show that there's more than $15 a month in it for the devs to make a considerable change to a core game component. And it's not as simple as flipping a switch to set respecs to always available - there are ramifications for the game economy and psychology.
Just as a for instance, all enhancements carried by the character, in slots or in trays, are sold at their full purchase value during a respec. With unlimited respecs, why shouldn't I respec every 5 levels to get my full value from my expiring SOs? For that matter, why shouldn't I respec every time my tray is full of drops? There's already quite a lot of influence in the game, and this would add considerably more. The developers would have to consider this.
Speaking of influence, let's consider those respec recipes that sell on the market for 100M or more. Every such sale takes as much as 10M from the game economy. How much should a respec cost if it is bought from a vendor? If it's too rich for your blood, is that still "unlimited"?
I don't think it would destroy the game if respecs were considerably less restricted in quantity than they are now. But I also don't see a need for the developers to spend the time and effort it would take to change the availability of respecs. I'm sorry, but your preference - even to the point of deciding whether you will subscribe or not - does not constitute a need, unless you can make a strong case that this change would bring in more subscriber dollars than any other thing the developers could do with that time and effort.
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Truth is, i hate respeccing in *any* game... even in games that have "unlimited" respecs.
And at the early stages (ie up to level 20ish) a respec is suprisingly fast, but once you start having to deal with a lot of enhancements, slots and indeed, the *order* in which you choose powers, it can take a long time.
Now saying that, i like that you have 2 builds (once you get to level 10 i think, might be level 20) and then a 3rd build once you unlock your Alpha Slot...
So that is 3 "free" respecs... and then you can buy them off the ingame market, use your veteran reward respecs, the ones awarded with issues, and then also the "earnable" respecs.
So the number of "limited" respecs is 3 (if you are a hero), 4 for a villain, and then you have another 2 (if you choose to use your extra build slots as respecs, 3 if you are 50).
Note: When the game was launched, you were limited to the "free respecs" that developers handed out, and the 3 that you could earn from doing the Respec trial... but the introduction of the Veteran system also started to add them in as rewards and so on and so forth.
I can see where you are coming from, and to be honest, you can do quite a bit on the test server to use/abuse/respec as you want.... It might be a bit quiet on the test server, but you do have "Unlimited" respecs...
And the fact that you can buy the respecs (if you have enough influence) off the market helps as well... so you do have your "unlimited" respecs....
BTW, unless you want the game to cater to a very small niche, a MMO better be fairly easy; most of the players out there are casual and not very skilled players, who will change games as needed until they find something they can enjoy a reasonable degree of success. Does not mean everything in the game needs to be easy, just that even an unskilled player needs to feel like he isn't forever stuck, like he can accomplish things.
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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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It is a psychological barrier that unfortunately only you are going to be able to work around. The game does give options for unlimited respecs, if you want to put in the leg work. It is trivial to get to the point where you can pay for respecs from other players. Last five is just that. You are not forced to bid that much, you can place extremely low ball bids and wait for them to fill, but I doubt that will ever be enough to sate your need for a safety net.
Of all the detractors of the game that take issue with whatever it is du jour, it is unfortunate that you cant stick around. The game can use more folks who can disagree with a aspect of the game without getting all frothy at the mouth.
Be that as it may, I don't think many people equate greater access to respecification with ease of play to the degree that you do. Greater access to respecification is a QoL improvement many people might appreciate, but I don't suspect it drives away a meaningful number of players.
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Truth is, i hate respeccing in *any* game... even in games that have "unlimited" respecs.
And at the early stages (ie up to level 20ish) a respec is suprisingly fast, but once you start having to deal with a lot of enhancements, slots and indeed, the *order* in which you choose powers, it can take a long time. |
I can see where you are coming from, and to be honest, you can do quite a bit on the test server to use/abuse/respec as you want.... It might be a bit quiet on the test server, but you do have "Unlimited" respecs...
And the fact that you can buy the respecs (if you have enough influence) off the market helps as well... so you do have your "unlimited" respecs.... |
I don't think playing exclusively on the test server is much viable, though.
I'm also going to take a look into how hard/easy it's to come up with 150M influence in the almost 7 weeks until my time card runs out. I'm still not sure it will be enough to keep me playing, but depending on how much time farming that much money can take, I might reconsider.
The part about preparation might be interesting for the devs to take into account for the new F2P business model. Plenty of players should be coming on impulse, with no preparation whatsoever. Adding something in the game's page, or even inside the game, to guide new players towards good builds might be a good idea.
After all, making it easier for players to end up with a workable character is something most MMOs do nowadays.
If your goal is to move the developers toward granting unlimited respecs, with your subscription dollars as an incentive for doing so, then I think you need to show that there's more than $15 a month in it for the devs to make a considerable change to a core game component. And it's not as simple as flipping a switch to set respecs to always available - there are ramifications for the game economy and psychology.
Just as a for instance, all enhancements carried by the character, in slots or in trays, are sold at their full purchase value during a respec. With unlimited respecs, why shouldn't I respec every 5 levels to get my full value from my expiring SOs? For that matter, why shouldn't I respec every time my tray is full of drops? There's already quite a lot of influence in the game, and this would add considerably more. The developers would have to consider this. Speaking of influence, let's consider those respec recipes that sell on the market for 100M or more. Every such sale takes as much as 10M from the game economy. How much should a respec cost if it is bought from a vendor? If it's too rich for your blood, is that still "unlimited"? |
I agree with you that, the way the game currently works, too easy respecs could be problematic, since they allow players to basically unslot and rearrange their enhancements. Free, unlimited respecs would have the same result as enhancements not being locked anymore when used. Which is exactly why I posted it here, and not on the suggestions forum; unless the devs already have some bigger change planned for the way enhancements work, I don't really expect easier respecs to be implemented in the lifetime of this game.
We are quite different. I actually like respeccing, to the point I'm more inclined to try any game that has unlimited and free respeccing - heck, I got a lifetime sub for Free Realms just because that game let me change classes on the fly (though the fact I got the lifetime sub for $15, with 2K in their store cash left after the purchase, had something to do with it; it's also one of the few viable MMOs for when the player have just 5-10 minutes to play), got GW mostly because of the free respecs, and after GW2 launches I'll most likely immediately get it.
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CoX though has 3 builds though, so once you know how game/class works, you can tweak it accordingly (Mids Hero Builder helps a great deal as well... although it isnt Issue 21 ready, it is still good for everything pre I21 wise)
If playing exclusively on the test server was actually viable and granted me unlimited respecs, I would be there. No doubt about it. I don't think playing exclusively on the test server is much viable, though. I'm also going to take a look into how hard/easy it's to come up with 150M influence in the almost 7 weeks until my time card runs out. I'm still not sure it will be enough to keep me playing, but depending on how much time farming that much money can take, I might reconsider. |
The part about preparation might be interesting for the devs to take into account for the new F2P business model. Plenty of players should be coming on impulse, with no preparation whatsoever. Adding something in the game's page, or even inside the game, to guide new players towards good builds might be a good idea. |
After all, making it easier for players to end up with a workable character is something most MMOs do nowadays. |
What I wanted is just to provide feedback. Tell the developers why I'm not sticking with the game, even though I mostly like it. They can take the feedback any way they want. I agree with you that, the way the game currently works, too easy respecs could be problematic, since they allow players to basically unslot and rearrange their enhancements. Free, unlimited respecs would have the same result as enhancements not being locked anymore when used. Which is exactly why I posted it here, and not on the suggestions forum; unless the devs already have some bigger change planned for the way enhancements work, I don't really expect easier respecs to be implemented in the lifetime of this game. |
Personally i would still stay with the game, especially if you enjoy the game in general, there is so much variation that one character will not be able to do it all... hell, tbh some different powersets can seriously change how an AT plays (fire/empathy controller = jack of all trades... but with Rad/Kinetics secondary = DAMAGE OVERLOAD at the later levels...)
I'm also going to take a look into how hard/easy it's to come up with 150M influence in the almost 7 weeks until my time card runs out. I'm still not sure it will be enough to keep me playing, but depending on how much time farming that much money can take, I might reconsider.
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PM me what server you are on, and what times you generally play at. Would be happy to show you how quickly you can make 150m.
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I almost felt mischievous, like I was cheating. It was not out of the ordinary to spend a million influence (or less) and make back 10 million-- on a single recipe. After a few days of invention-selling on Virtue (a populous shard with a very healthy market), I began to get a feel for good bargains and quick sellers. Sometimes a quick sell isn't important. A prudent investment on a slow-selling item can land you millions of influence after a few days. Some of my biggest sells took a month or more to come, but I knew they would. What you do is keep an eye on the last five sells and ask yourself, "is it worth it?"
I never became an expert marketeer. I never looked at guides on the forums. Undoubtedly, my methods would seem amateurish to seasoned sellers. And yet still, a year and a half later, the two characters with whom I conducted the experiment are wealthy, greatly owing to the experiment.
But...how enjoyable was all this? To make sure, for a follow-up experiment, I played a character who only used the market and university for his own enhancing needs. Strapped for cash from day one, I learned to plan, prioritize, and depended on training and dual origin enhancements in the early levels. These growing challenges helped define that character's gradual rise to influence, and for many characters afterward. I also found more time to focus on story arcs, friends, and designing likeable characters to play. (The latter, incidentally, has netted me at least 150 million in costume contest winnings.)
I learned that easy influence wasn't for me, and that I enjoy all the challenges and strategies associated with "making it". I learned what was fun for me. But yes, if you're curious about the market, I can attest to the ease with which the market can be played.
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I almost felt mischievous, like I was cheating. It was not out of the ordinary to spend a million influence (or less) and make back 10 million-- on a single recipe. After a few days of invention-selling on Virtue (a populous shard with a very healthy market), I began to get a feel for good bargains and quick sellers.
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The price lists and inventory you see for any item are the same no matter what server you're on.
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i make stuff...
I find this idea of... respecing... amusing.
I've never, ever, respeced. Ever. I make a character, and it's the way I want it. Every time. And not due to Mids. Due to my looking at the powers that the character can grow into, making a list, and then modifying it as I see gaps in the armor, so to speak, but NEVER going back and saying "oh, that power sucks" or "Oh, I wish I'd done THIS with the character..."
Guess that's just me, though. I find that insta-specing isn't something I would ever use... I horde the respecs simply because I never use them.
Why yes.. yes I suppose I *am* bragging or such. Anyways...
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My thought is that insta-respecs aren't a good idea. But, if you were to, oh, I dunno, have to work for them via a solo trial, sort of like unlocking the stores in Founders, Bricks, and Perigrine, and how you can do a Terra Volta, then maybe they could set up a mission set you could get one a week, and if that's your bag, have at it.
Oh, I got it. Do Tip Missions and get to respec instead of change alignment. There. That's it, I fixed it.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Uh, you do realize that the market has been across all servers (even across the NA and EU servers when they were separate server lists) since the market was added to the game, right?
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On a related note, I also outed myself the other day not knowing that male characters can be Arachnos Widows.
IS THERE NO END TO MY FOOLISHNESS?
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I guess the question is what possible need is there for you to respec so often? You can't change your archetype or your core powersets so you're not going to make radical changes in what your character is good at doing or their overall role in combat. At low levels respeccing doesn't change much and at high levels it is a pain to do.
If the only reason you can offer is "because it makes me feel better about playing lol :3", then, well, that is a pretty poor reason. There are good reasons in this game (as there are in most) that you can't recustomize your character at the drop of a hat. And, as others have stated, you do have an unlimited amount of respecs available to you. You just have to put in a little more effort than you're comfortable doing to get them.
I would enjoy the game more if I could afford to outfit all of my characters in Purple IOs and had a way to readily level them to 50, but I am unwilling to put in the effort to make that happen. However, I'm not about to suggest that these things should be easier...
Incidentally, what I implied wasn't that the game being easy is bad, but that making it easiER is bad. These are not the same things; please read more carefully in the future.
I find this idea of... respecing... amusing.
I've never, ever, respeced. Ever. I make a character, and it's the way I want it. Every time. And not due to Mids. Due to my looking at the powers that the character can grow into, making a list, and then modifying it as I see gaps in the armor, so to speak, but NEVER going back and saying "oh, that power sucks" or "Oh, I wish I'd done THIS with the character..." Guess that's just me, though. ![]() Why yes.. yes I suppose I *am* bragging or such. Anyways... --- My thought is that insta-respecs aren't a good idea. But, if you were to, oh, I dunno, have to work for them via a solo trial, sort of like unlocking the stores in Founders, Bricks, and Perigrine, and how you can do a Terra Volta, then maybe they could set up a mission set you could get one a week, and if that's your bag, have at it. Oh, I got it. Do Tip Missions and get to respec instead of change alignment. There. That's it, I fixed it. ![]() |
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OP: It sounds to me like you enjoy respeccing your character more than you like actually playing the game.
If that's the case, just download Mid's and play with that instead. You can repec as many times as you like without all that tedious game in the way.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I've never, ever, respeced. Ever. I make a character, and it's the way I want it. Every time. And not due to Mids. Due to my looking at the powers that the character can grow into, making a list, and then modifying it as I see gaps in the armor, so to speak, but NEVER going back and saying "oh, that power sucks" or "Oh, I wish I'd done THIS with the character..."
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It might seem strange, but restrictions on respecs, for me, are about as bad as enforcing permadeath on the game. They are a really big deal for me.
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I can honestly say in over 5 years I have NEVER respec'd a character except for the inherent stamina.
You have 3 builds!
Use SO until you get to your mid 30's and then you can swap builds with ease. I make one build for early content and one for upper end.
Why on earth do you need to respec with 3 builds available?
It's also a psychological issue for me. There is a limit on the number of respecs I can get before having to spend real money on them. Even if this limit were quite high - say, a hundred or two respecs - the fact it's a limited number would still feel stifling for me...
Games that restrict respecs are just not for me. |
Respeccing is washing the trashcans or cleaning the gutters to me. Sometimes it has to be done, but it is not any fun to me at all. (Even after Inherent Fitness, I am only respeccing any lvl 50 heroes I am actually taking out and playing for more than a mish or two because it is such a pain in the rear.) Wanting to be able to endlessly respec a character over and over and over and over totally blows my mind.
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You never even respecced when fitness went inherent? You're missing out there.
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Oh, to be sure, I'm ever so grateful that I have them now, makes life easier, but... well... seems like it's cheapened. You had to work to get access to those, and then make choices... Do I wanna travel now, or get that bad awesome power? And you STILL have to 3 slot the two that are important in Fitness... although when that happens, of course, is up to the person needing to do it, so there's still some strategy of a sort needed...
I even refuse to respec my sole 50 Dominator, specifically because she was done JUST before the Fren to them. I'm dang proud of that fact, silly as it is to some, because frankly, it was *hard* to get that evil b***h up to 50 on Pinnacle, as slow and not as often as I get to play, and the fact that Villain side was (and is) low pop, and things were on a trough in the waves of gamplay of Co*.
Nope, not missing out at all, I think, but I'll take it on the newbies, and definitely not compain.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
/Now... heck, I may make a character WITHOUT them... AND with the game's most epic endurance suckage powers. Heh.
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August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
By paying real money for a respec? A respec is something I will absolutely not purchase, no matter how cheap it is. If I'm already paying a subscription, I flat out refuse to pay anything extra for things I consider really essential to my gaming experience - and respecs is something I consider essential. I would (and did, on previous occasions) leave the game way before even considering purchasing a respec.
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Do you understand how money works? If they offered you a respec for $0.01, you seriously would not pay it? Well, kudos for you! Your dedication to your principles has once again thwarted your ability to have any fun in this game, and if you carry it to any other games you play, to any other game you ever particpate in.
I don't really understand how anyone can run out of respecs in this game. Even if you hamper your AT to 50% of its potential power (which is pretty damned dificult to do unless you don't know what the initials I.O. stand for)... your character will STILL be a decent comparison to other characters in nearly any party, or solo for that matter.
Also, learn about "marginal benefit". If you take 50% of your time respeccing to get an extra 3.76% performance out of your character, then ou may eed to retake a few math classes. Unless, as someone has pointed out, respeccing is your kind of 'fun'... in which case, the Test Server is a limitless abundance of free respecc-y goodness.
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But, for whatever reason, I can't stand to play any MMO where I can't respec any time I want. The first time I want to respec and find I can't - or I get stuck when leveling because I can't decide how to spec, given that changing my decision in the future will be either hard or impossible - I simply leave the game. |
I had to fix mistakes by rerolling. Ugh.
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Note: When the game was launched, you were limited to the "free respecs" that developers handed out, and the 3 that you could earn from doing the Respec trial... but the introduction of the Veteran system also started to add them in as rewards and so on and so forth.
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Eventually, they added the Respec trials, but initially they were really challenging- enough so that people questioned how a character that needed a respec was supposed to be able to complete them.
Personally, I'm in the camp of "How can a person possibly use all these Respecs?" The most ive ever used on a single character is like 4 on my main, and that was 1 to drop Instant Healing when it got nerfed, Once when I got to 50 and re-allocated some slots due to more efficeint slotting with IOs, Once when they gave us Inherent Fitness, and once a long time ago just because I was about to have to replace all my Enhancements and a new issue was coming out that week, which meant a new freespec.
To the OP, I have to ask, how many characters do you play? at this point, theres 15 servers to choose form, with at least 12 slots on each server. Instead of obsessing over being able to change your characters build every other day to be the "Perfect Build" of the Week, why not just make another character? play around with different builds, powersets, even ATs.
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Cool thanks for the price check.
DarkWalker, you can get that kind of money with two hero merits (and with only one if you're lucky). That's 4 days of tips (because you can only do 5 of them a day), but the total running time should be... An hour? Two maybe?
If that amount of "earning time" per respec is OK with you, then there's two things I want you to do:
1. Head to the market forum and check on the usage of Hero/Villain merits. The chaps there are quite helpful and typically willing to help people on their way to self-sufficiency. I don't know your feelings about marketeering, but H/V Merit -> Inf. is the easiest, most straightforward path.
2. PM me your global, since I assume you don't have a higher level character that can run tips easily yet (have you even made it to 20?). You and I are going to run a little experiment.
You're making this more of a deal than it is. You can respec often and easily, we just need to give you inf-earning traction so you realize that, time-wise, it's no more expensive than other games offering unlimited respecs with in-game currency.
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