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Quote:I was referring just to the overall difficulty - in the post I was responding to, the author seemed to imply that the game being easy was not a good thing. This part of my post had no relationship with respecs.Be that as it may, I don't think many people equate greater access to respecification with ease of play to the degree that you do. Greater access to respecification is a QoL improvement many people might appreciate, but I don't suspect it drives away a meaningful number of players.
Quote:Truth is, i hate respeccing in *any* game... even in games that have "unlimited" respecs.
And at the early stages (ie up to level 20ish) a respec is suprisingly fast, but once you start having to deal with a lot of enhancements, slots and indeed, the *order* in which you choose powers, it can take a long time.
Quote:I can see where you are coming from, and to be honest, you can do quite a bit on the test server to use/abuse/respec as you want.... It might be a bit quiet on the test server, but you do have "Unlimited" respecs...
And the fact that you can buy the respecs (if you have enough influence) off the market helps as well... so you do have your "unlimited" respecs....
I don't think playing exclusively on the test server is much viable, though.
I'm also going to take a look into how hard/easy it's to come up with 150M influence in the almost 7 weeks until my time card runs out. I'm still not sure it will be enough to keep me playing, but depending on how much time farming that much money can take, I might reconsider.
The part about preparation might be interesting for the devs to take into account for the new F2P business model. Plenty of players should be coming on impulse, with no preparation whatsoever. Adding something in the game's page, or even inside the game, to guide new players towards good builds might be a good idea.
After all, making it easier for players to end up with a workable character is something most MMOs do nowadays.
Quote:If your goal is to move the developers toward granting unlimited respecs, with your subscription dollars as an incentive for doing so, then I think you need to show that there's more than $15 a month in it for the devs to make a considerable change to a core game component. And it's not as simple as flipping a switch to set respecs to always available - there are ramifications for the game economy and psychology.
Just as a for instance, all enhancements carried by the character, in slots or in trays, are sold at their full purchase value during a respec. With unlimited respecs, why shouldn't I respec every 5 levels to get my full value from my expiring SOs? For that matter, why shouldn't I respec every time my tray is full of drops? There's already quite a lot of influence in the game, and this would add considerably more. The developers would have to consider this.
Speaking of influence, let's consider those respec recipes that sell on the market for 100M or more. Every such sale takes as much as 10M from the game economy. How much should a respec cost if it is bought from a vendor? If it's too rich for your blood, is that still "unlimited"?
I agree with you that, the way the game currently works, too easy respecs could be problematic, since they allow players to basically unslot and rearrange their enhancements. Free, unlimited respecs would have the same result as enhancements not being locked anymore when used. Which is exactly why I posted it here, and not on the suggestions forum; unless the devs already have some bigger change planned for the way enhancements work, I don't really expect easier respecs to be implemented in the lifetime of this game. -
Quote:What I expected? In truth, to be ignored. The community surprised me, in a positive way. If it depended only on the community, I would surely stay.What do you want us to tell you? We have more than enough respecs for any reasonable player and if that's not enough there's a whole server where you can change your build as many times as you want.
And that's still not enough for you? What do you want, unlimited free respecs? Well, I guess the game is already so easy that making it even easier won't do any harm...
What exactly is the point of this thread? If the game isn't for you, then, well, the door's right that way...
Are the respecs that already exist enough for me? No. For me to enjoy a game, I need to be assured that respecs are unlimited, and obtaining one - including all required farming - is fairly easy; it doesn't need to be free, but obtaining one should take a couple dozen minutes, perhaps up to one hour. Otherwise I get frustrated too easily with my character, which leads to me leaving the game.
In CoH, though, the limited availability of respecs seem needed to control the availability of high end enhancements (given the way respecs currently work). So, while the only way for me to keep playing the game would be to have much easier access to them, I'm not sure it would be the best for the game.
What was the point of the thread? Mostly providing feedback to the developers why I wouldn't stay. I like to at least attempt to provide a feedback if I enjoyed the game or ended up liking the developers - who knows, they might take it into account and make games I enjoy even more
I never had a recurrent plan to this game - I used the trial, new game codes, and game time cards to play. So, I was never given a chance to tell the developers why I left before, and will most likely not have a chance this last time too; this specific forum seemed the best place to post it.
BTW, unless you want the game to cater to a very small niche, a MMO better be fairly easy; most of the players out there are casual and not very skilled players, who will change games as needed until they find something they can enjoy a reasonable degree of success. Does not mean everything in the game needs to be easy, just that even an unskilled player needs to feel like he isn't forever stuck, like he can accomplish things. -
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Before I start: the thread was to point out why, even though I mostly love the game, I can't stand to play it for over a week or two.
It might seem strange, but restrictions on respecs, for me, are about as bad as enforcing permadeath on the game. They are a really big deal for me.
I'm not exactly asking for more respecs or easier ways to obtain them. I understand there are players that think restricting respecs is important to assure a desirable level of planning and commitment to the character. It seems like the devs opinion matches this, so I'm going back to other games that better match my idea of how a MMO (or, more specifically, respecs, given that I actually like the other aspects of CoH) should work.
Don't forget Guild Wars (the main reason I actually started playing that game was because respecs are unlimited and free) and Guild Wars 2 (unlimited specs for PvP, easy and apparently unlimited and free respeccing in PvE, in a game with good systems and a fair level of polish? Count me in).
Quote:Which is the reason I never started playing CO. I made an account and went to research a few things while it downloaded. As soon as I found how respeccing worked, I deleted the client install and never looked back.in co at least i assure you that respeccing anything but your very last few powers gets prohibitively expensive .
The game developers work on the assumption that players shouldn't make big changes to their characters. I tend to avoid games where this is true.
Quote:There's has always been (so far) a free respec with each issue. And since issues come out on average 3 times a year, well, that's 3 free respecs per year. Then, if you're a subscriber, one more per year. Then there's earned ones (3-4). Then there's the in-game respec recipe. Then there is purchasing one. Then there is a second (and third) build. Then there is unlimited respecs on the Test Server (because you 'buy' with fake money there).
We're drowning in respecs.
Respecs: Earned, Trial, Veteran, Free, Recipe
It's also a psychological issue for me. There is a limit on the number of respecs I can get before having to spend real money on them. Even if this limit were quite high - say, a hundred or two respecs - the fact it's a limited number would still feel stifling for me. More so because I consider easy access to respecs to be almost as important to my fun in the game as being able to rez my character - and I don't think I'm going to be able to change this. My current attempt at playing CoH was also an attempt to see if I could bring myself to play a game with limited respeccing, and it failed miserably.
Quote:Whilst I currently have freespecs and vetspecs coming out of my ears, I tend to treat them with a degree of value. I tend not to respec my toons until they're 50 or in the high 40s.
The answer is not to stop playing, but rather play more. Get a feel for the archetypes and their basic power types, get an idea of how to slot each basic type of power in order to produce a functional build. To clarify, if you play melee toons then your basic three single target attacks will likely be 6 slotted with 2 acc, 2 dam, 1 rech and 1 end. Your basic armour toggles may be 5 slotted with 2 end and 3 res or def. Start with TOs/DO/SOs until you hit 50. You can find plenty of guides detailing all the powersets and their optimal slotting right here on the forums, they're are probably the best place to start.
I tend to get an idea of where I'd like my focus to be as I level up. In which case I use Mids to plan your build accordingly. Once I'm happy with the numbers and my toon is at or near 50 only then do I respec. I fill it back out with my left over SOs and work towards acquiring the IOs I need. Sometimes the resultant 'empty' build can be more or less effective than the functional leveling build, but once I start slotting those IOs it gets better and better.
At the time, I though that would be enough to get over my problem with respec restrictions. Unfortunately, it wasn't. In a few days I couldn't bring myself to level my character, even though I wanted to continue the quest lines.
Games that restrict respecs are just not for me. -
Quote:I'll admit that my standards have changed since I started playing MMOs, though. Before my first contact with easy respecs, I accepted games without respecs, or with limits on how many respecs a player may use; after I became used to easy respecs, I actually look at the respec process before trying the game, and for the most part I won't even try a game that tries to limit respecs, or charges real money for them.I hate to say this, but this is a big fail on your part. I'm guessing that you don't like to play any games then, as I'm sure most if not all do not let you respec any time you want. At least MMOs.
I always plan out my toons from level 1 to 50 ahead of time so I know what power to pick and how to slot each power.
To quit over something you can so easily fix yourself is silly and pointless in my opinion.
As for easily fixing the problem, how?
By planning the characters beforehand? I change opinions during the leveling process, and often end up wanting to do quite different builds than when I started. It helps me last a few extra levels before wanting to respec, but that's it.
By paying real money for a respec? A respec is something I will absolutely not purchase, no matter how cheap it is. If I'm already paying a subscription, I flat out refuse to pay anything extra for things I consider really essential to my gaming experience - and respecs is something I consider essential. I would (and did, on previous occasions) leave the game way before even considering purchasing a respec.
By purchasing respec recipes? Last time I looked at them, they were just too expensive to even consider purchasing. The time needed to farm for them, or for the influence to purchase them, is just too high to be classified as "easy".
By waiting for a free respec to be granted? No, thanks. Takes too long and is not reliable. -
Quote:I used Mids this last try (and, I believe, either it or a pre-made build as a guide my previous try, 2 years ago). Without help with trying to plan the spec I wouldn't have lasted half as much. Didn't pan out as I had expected because I became intrigued with different ideas, saw that I wouldn't be able to try them, and became frustrated.Mids. Use it. Love it.
You have 3 builds to choose from. F one up, level up a different one.
I dont understand how someone can f up a toon so often, or just want to change powers like they were costume slots. Okay, maybe PVP builds, but other than that, I am yet to run out of respec options on a toon.
Most likely the game just aint for you. Too bad really, because the more the merrier.
I'm not the kind of player that reacts well to being so restricted by all his previous decisions. Not in a game, at least.
It's not even that I need to respec too often. It's something psychological. I need some assurance that, should I want to try other play styles through respecs, I will be able to do so, and to change back if I don't like the new spec; I need some assurance that, no matter how often I mess my build or how much time I take to discover an error, I will still be able to correct it. Without it, even if I don't actually need to correct some error, any choice when leveling up starts becoming so hard for me to make, I end up leaving the game in frustration.
Also, when given options, I like to experiment, create, refine; I like to try all options, tweak them as I go, document results, almost reverse-engineer them. I'm the kind of player that abuse save games so I can see all possible outcomes of an encounter, to the point I could rebuild the dialogue trees; being denied this kind of freedom drastically cuts my enjoyment of the game.
My worst case wasn't even with CoH; it was in DDO. Akin to this game, DDO offers respecs as either random rewards for high level content, or as items to be bought from the cash shop, so for all effects I treat respecs there as if they didn't exist at all. And it has simply too many options when leveling up. I reached a new level (not sure if it was 2 or 3), spent an hour uselessly trying to decide how I would want to level my character, gave up, did a few more instances, came back to level my character, spent another couple hours without being able to decide, and uninstalled the game.
If I know I can change my previous choices with a minimum of fuss, without any limit to the number of times I can change them, I don't have any problem leveling up. Knowing I can redo my choice any time lets me pick whatever option I think is the best without any frustration, since I know that, even if I did choose poorly, I won't be bound by the choice.
As you said, CoH seems to just not be the game for me. At least with it's current design goal of making the speccing decisions important by making it hard to keep respeccing.
After Invention Origin Enhancement Sets were introduced, yeah, it's a quite complex system. More so because enhancements are such an integral part of a build - and obtaining them has too many random elements. -
In a nutshell: restrictions on how often I can respec are the big reason why I can't play this game for any long stretch of time.
I mostly love this game. I've tried to play it a few times across the years, I love some of the concepts, I really like how the direction Paragon is taking the game.
But, for whatever reason, I can't stand to play any MMO where I can't respec any time I want. The first time I want to respec and find I can't - or I get stuck when leveling because I can't decide how to spec, given that changing my decision in the future will be either hard or impossible - I simply leave the game.
It's what happened 3 times already with CoH; I try to play, make a new character (as I can't bring myself to play my old characters), but in a few days I end leaving in frustration because I either can't decide how to distribute my slots and powers, or else I find I really want to change my spec. This last try, I ever tried adding 4 months of game time at a time, to see if the larger money investment could make me stick. It just meant I wasted money, since I played for a week or two and abandoned the game just after.
None of the ways to obtain respecs are actually enough for me. The respec recipes are simply too expensive, the free respecs too few and far between, and respecs are one thing I would rather leave the game than purchase in the cash shop (since I consider them about as essential for my enjoyment of the game as, for example, being able to resurrect my character).
BTW: I'm not actually asking for the game to change regarding respecs; I just wanted to explain the reason I could never stay in the game. While I would be thrilled if they were reworked into something I could live with, after this last try, I'm moving on. -
I would really love to be able to reset my character without losing all that extra progress.
I absolutely disagree with the idea of granting a buff for doing it, though.
One benefit that might be appropriate for resetting a character and leveling it all over again with a new AT or Powersets would be enabling the player to change to any of the AT/Powerset combinations he did level to 50 whenever he respecs. Perhaps even allowing his multiple builds to belong to different AT/Powerset combinations. While this provides extra flexibility, it would not grant characters any real power increase.