Doctor Who: Closing Time - 24/9 (9/24)
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 13:07 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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My guess the little cyber rat thing while they were in the department store picked up who the doctor was and transmitted it back to the cybermen. IDK if it was just a power drainer or if it had communication abilities with the cybermen also.
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Originally Posted by Rodoan
Curious...as I understand the episode, these Cybermen have been bottled up in the earth for centuries (according to the Doctor). How then does the original surviving Cyberman know this eleventh face as The Doctor? Granted, at least two from the store above knew him by name, but not by his real nature. In "The Next Doctor", the Cybermen of that episode knew all the previous faces, but not #10. They had to be shown.
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Well the Doctor did say, "It's okay, I know it's you". Could it be River, Amy, Rory or even another Doctor?
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Originally Posted by Shadowclone
I like how we see where he gets the blue letters/ the stetson. And wasn't it supposed to be River as a child in the astronaut suit?
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River was just shown to be in the space suit, in a body of water. I know we're not supposed to assume anything but give me a freaking break, it's not like they're gonna be "lol j/k, that was totally unrelated, HERE'S the real killer".
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well the Doctor did say, "It's okay, I know it's you". Could it be River, Amy, Rory or even another Doctor?
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Well I haven't seen this episode or the previews of the finale yet. I thought the spacesuit question was a general one based on the first two episodes. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
River was just shown to be in the space suit, in a body of water. I know we're not supposed to assume anything but give me a freaking break, it's not like they're gonna be "lol j/k, that was totally unrelated, HERE'S the real killer".
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And to be fair, Its like not Moffat hasn't thrown similar 'This much be the guy' in our face, and come to find out we were wrong.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
River was just shown to be in the space suit, in a body of water. I know we're not supposed to assume anything but give me a freaking break, it's not like they're gonna be "lol j/k, that was totally unrelated, HERE'S the real killer".
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Ganger Amy comes to mind right away..
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A ruse to convince... who? Craig? That doesn't make much sense. Craig is the only one that the Doctor told that he was about to go die. What I'm more curious about is how The Doctor knows he's out of time. The records say he dies on that specific day, so doesn't he decide when to go to that day and die? It might have been really cool to show the death of the Doctor now, and let Matt Smith get his full run in as the Doctor before finally being broken down enough by the weight on his shoulders that he willingly goes to his death (only to be saved at the last second or something). But anyway, the Doctor does lie about how old he is, and he might not even know. We do know that he's done some time-hopping, and we see some of his hijinks in the season opener, as Amy and Rory see him appearing through time and waving to them. We know he did more with River... probably all the stuff in her Spoilers Book, or she'd know that his death wasn't final because she'd already done more with him. |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Rule #1 - The Doctor lies. It hasn't been 200 years, and he hadn't actually done all the things with River that he said he had done. 'twas a ruse to convince help everyone that this was the end of the line.
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I think it's pretty clear that River does kill the Doctor. She was programmed to do it, and she did it, but she brought him back after she was free of her programming. Now the Silence is reactivating her programming to finish the job- what we don't know is why they waited this long or how the Doctor's going to pull his bacon out of the pan. I feel very confident that the finale will explain some of that, and leave plenty of threads to be explored next season.
Well. We know the Doctor was unconscious for a bit in this episode.
We're given to believe that the Cyberman that knocked him out apparently left him there instead of taking him prisoner or killing him. Which given their past history would be a stupid thing to do - the Doctor now knows you're there, he's helpless before you, and you just let him go?
What if he wasn't just left there? What if something happened, and he just ended up there afterward?
-k
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There may have been Silence around. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Samoa
A ruse to convince... who? Craig? That doesn't make much sense. Craig is the only one that the Doctor told that he was about to go die.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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<supposition>|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
Curious...as I understand the episode, these Cybermen have been bottled up in the earth for centuries (according to the Doctor). How then does the original surviving Cyberman know this eleventh face as The Doctor? Granted, at least two from the store above knew him by name, but not by his real nature. In "The Next Doctor", the Cybermen of that episode knew all the previous faces, but not #10. They had to be shown.
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They could have crashed at the time of the Pandoric. That would mean they'd have known the current Doctor and had time to be buried beneath London (or where ever it was supposed to be).
</supposition>
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They said something about binary circulatory systems and being unsuitable for conversion. Since Time Lords are known to have two hearts, they could make the logical leap and think, "Oy crickey, this chap's a Time Lord! *monocle*".|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
Curious...as I understand the episode, these Cybermen have been bottled up in the earth for centuries (according to the Doctor). How then does the original surviving Cyberman know this eleventh face as The Doctor? Granted, at least two from the store above knew him by name, but not by his real nature. In "The Next Doctor", the Cybermen of that episode knew all the previous faces, but not #10. They had to be shown.
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Besides, if there's someone mucking around who knows a bit more than he should, it's a pretty safe bet that the Doctor is having a bit of fun.
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I would apologize for the spoiler, but it's yer own damn fault for posting in this thread. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well I haven't seen this episode or the previews of the finale yet. I thought the spacesuit question was a general one based on the first two episodes.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Well. We know the Doctor was unconscious for a bit in this episode.
We're given to believe that the Cyberman that knocked him out apparently left him there instead of taking him prisoner or killing him. Which given their past history would be a stupid thing to do - the Doctor now knows you're there, he's helpless before you, and you just let him go? What if he wasn't just left there? What if something happened, and he just ended up there afterward? -k |
I could see something like that happening...maybe the Cybermen created a life-like "Doctor" :P
*shrugs*
But something could have happened...it would make no sense for the Cybermen to just leave the Doctor there.
Edit:
The only thing I really didn't care for too much in this episode was Craig not knowing things...like the Cybermen/etc...
I mean, The Doctor did give him all of the Doctor's info the last time they met....is it a short term memory thing or ?
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A couple of things have happened.
In between AGMGTW and Closing Time, the Doctor has had his big romance with River.
He his going to his death not because he can't avoid it, but because if he interferes with the timeline he won't get to romance River.
All he has to do is find a way to preserve the timeline in which he dies, whist creating an alternative timeline in which Melody Williams never becomes River Song, and hence the Doctor is not killed. Of course, since leaving either timeline without a Doctor would be a bad idea, he also has a backup flesh Doctor stored in his sonic screwdriver.
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You're talking 900 years of memories, I'd be very surprised if a human brain could consciously recall most of it, especially that long after the initial transfer. Hell, after that long I'm sure even the Doctor forgets stuff.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
The only thing I really didn't care for too much in this episode was Craig not knowing things...like the Cybermen/etc...
I mean, The Doctor did give him all of the Doctor's info the last time they met....is it a short term memory thing or ? |
Or he may have just gotten a concussion from the initial transfer.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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It seems to me that Donna is pretty good evidence that the human brain can't contain and access that sort of information for long.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
You're talking 900 years of memories, I'd be very surprised if a human brain could consciously recall most of it, especially that long after the initial transfer. Hell, after that long I'm sure even the Doctor forgets stuff.
Or he may have just gotten a concussion from the initial transfer. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I refer you to the Flash. He can read and temporarily store any info he requires (like how to build an entire apartment building), but long term storage is not happenin'.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
You're talking 900 years of memories, I'd be very surprised if a human brain could consciously recall most of it, especially that long after the initial transfer. Hell, after that long I'm sure even the Doctor forgets stuff.
Or he may have just gotten a concussion from the initial transfer. |
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You know, I had something nagging at the back of my mind telling me that there was precedent for that in the show, but I couldn't quite grab it. Guess my mind can't handle Time Lord memories either.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It seems to me that Donna is pretty good evidence that the human brain can't contain and access that sort of information for long.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
Well, the other thing Time Lords have going for them is the fact that they have a shared/collective consciousness in the form of the Matrix (and NO Keanu is NOT in there beating up agents). This helps buffer them against the sheer amount of knowledge available to them. Kind of like a database. They bring up what they need to know and leave the bulk alone.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
It seems to me that Donna is pretty good evidence that the human brain can't contain and access that sort of information for long.
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Donna didn't have that sort of buffer. So while she could handle it for a short time, she was going to, eventually, get overwhelmed by it. Kinda like trying to sip a tsunami.
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But the Doctor is the only Time Lord left (allowing for wibbly-wobbly business).
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Well, the other thing Time Lords have going for them is the fact that they have a shared/collective consciousness in the form of the Matrix (and NO Keanu is NOT in there beating up agents). This helps buffer them against the sheer amount of knowledge available to them. Kind of like a database. They bring up what they need to know and leave the bulk alone.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Is is possible or even more likely probable that his link to the TARDIS provides that effect for him.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
But the Doctor is the only Time Lord left (allowing for wibbly-wobbly business).
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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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He's probably going to avoid death somehow, causing time to fracture? River to lose an eye? Churchill and romans to team up again daleks and dinosaurs?
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Not counting any running around loose, hidden away someplace.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
But the Doctor is the only Time Lord left (allowing for wibbly-wobbly business).
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Not counting any time-locked away in the Time War. Gallifrey still exists. It's just been sealed off from the rest of time and space.
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So I have been thinking. I recall it being mentioned in Let's Kill Hitler that his death was a fixed point in time yet the Tardis said in The Doctor's Wife that she had a number of console rooms archived that hadn't even been used yet. That now has me thinking more that the Doctor does something to fake his death so that he can go back to staying in the shadows.
So his death has to be convincing enough to get the Silence to get off his back, then he can get encognito and see what's really going on. He needs to have another information wipe, so he can get a clean slate. Like what happened when Torchwood went down.
Also, when does the Gamma Forest happen?
Curious...as I understand the episode, these Cybermen have been bottled up in the earth for centuries (according to the Doctor). How then does the original surviving Cyberman know this eleventh face as The Doctor? Granted, at least two from the store above knew him by name, but not by his real nature. In "The Next Doctor", the Cybermen of that episode knew all the previous faces, but not #10. They had to be shown.