Credit for all the downtime
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-09-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I really don't get this, honestly. I remember a time when the servers went down every day and stayed down for the full 2-hour window, except on weekends. The first day I logged into the game, I got booted from the servers within half an hour by daily maintenance. Two hours a day, five days a week and no-one complained.
And yet now if the servers go down for extended maintenance once a week, everyone is up in arms. I just don't get it.
Compensation for things like this sets up a bad example. It tells people that they'll be compensated for any little thing they don't like. Dual Pistols has a couple of powers with bugged graphics, I can't play Dual Pistols, I only have one character and it's Dual Pistols, it's been bugged for two weeks now, compensate me.
Sure, it's absurd and stupid and no-one would take that seriously, but I've heard dumber requests. Recently someone talked about a criminal trial against Paragon Studios for theft because of something equally as stupid, like they promised Signature Story Arcs and they didn't deliver them, or they promised "you keep what you've bought" but veteran Premium players lose access to Inventions anyway. I forget what, but it happened.
**** happens. Losing access to City of Heroes for a day isn't like losing power or losing water, because there exist other games in the world that I can still play while the servers are down, whereas I can't just plug my house in the other socket and get power from another power company when that goes down.
As far as I'm concerned, compensating people are a response to angry demands is an extremely bad practice, because it breeds entitlement where it really isn't due. I won't exactly rise up in arms if it happened, but I won't support it by the same token. And on my side, the servers are down until 11 PM at night.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I hear they do offer complimentary Fosters and shrimp on tha' barbie. |
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
I don't care what Australian courts do.
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@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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If you pay a monthly subscription, then it 'happened' to you. We pay for access to the servers, if those servers are not available, then you cannot play. |
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Why compensate someone for something that didn't happen to them?
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Originally Posted by MentalMaden
What do you think a EULA is for then?
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So, i'm not entilted to what i pay for? And few hours is more like few days this month, and yes its been all during my play time since i play mornings.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I only hope that I can someday live in a world where missing out on a few hours of playing a GAME made me think it was reasonable and justified enough to get the company running that game to either refund me a whole entire DOLLAR or give me an extra day to play. I only wish I had so little to worry about that something like -this- would be important enough to get upset about.
There's a thing call "choosing your battles". This is not a battle worth fighting. No but it is an incredible example of petty "entitlement whining" that I would never be caught dead doing with any company that has given me good service for 99.9% of the time for the last 7.5 years. YMMV of course. |
The only time I have ever called a service provider and demanded compensation is when Verizon charged me $2 a month for data usage that I never used. Hit a wrong button on my phone and get charged for 1mb of data usage. I had to call them once a month for like 4 months because they kept doing it.
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Haven't heard any of them say anything even remotely similar to this.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Telling the players to go **** themselves and hiding behind the EULA? What will that cost them? Well players and word of mouth back lash for one. |
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Saying "Look, the EULA says we can shut down the servers whenever we want." Is a poor business practice. |
As a matter of fact, what Freitag has said on every post about maintenance and downtimes of late has been the following:
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We apologise for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience! |
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Thank you for your patience and support. |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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From the contract perspective, its not an unfair request. I've negotiated many software webhosting agreements where "downtime" language has been added to protect the customer's expectation of 24/7 access to the web-based software tool. Usually it's the customer being guaranteed restoration of service within x timeframe or the vendor is required to credit the customer back for y days of service outage. |
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
While I sympathize- theres no way in hell you'll get it. No MMO is going to open that pandora's box, nor should they. Is it inconvient? Hell yes. But at the end of the day, it's a game. It's not a staple necessary for living. Do you play EVERY day of that 30 month sub? Most don't. You pay for access to the game. However, these are physical mechanical devices and sometimes they need off time for repair/maintenance/upgrades etc. It happens, it's not the norm, so enough already.
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Most times, the game service has been restored within 24 hours, so you can't say cumulative down time should equal a credit of some kind. Now if the devs offer folks a free ____ token in apology for the constant downtime, I think that would be reasonably appreciated in lieu of points. But they don't have to do it.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I only hope that I can someday live in a world where missing out on a few hours of playing a GAME made me think it was reasonable and justified enough to get the company running that game to either refund me a whole entire DOLLAR or give me an extra day to play. I only wish I had so little to worry about that something like -this- would be important enough to get upset about.
There's a thing call "choosing your battles". This is not a battle worth fighting. |
30+ hours all down to maintance, and emergency maintance, all scheduled in my prime play hours. I'd like that time that I've paid for that was denied due to Paragon's snafu, credited to my account. What is wrong with that?
Who said I'm upset, I'd just like to see that Paragon has any form of loyality to their subscribers. If boohiss Activ-Blizzard can do it, surely Paragon who aren't apparantly all evil scumbags, who feast on the tears of the frustrated, can do it to?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Something is seriously out of whack here.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I really don't get this, honestly. I remember a time when the servers went down every day and stayed down for the full 2-hour window, except on weekends. The first day I logged into the game, I got booted from the servers within half an hour by daily maintenance. Two hours a day, five days a week and no-one complained.
And yet now if the servers go down for extended maintenance once a week, everyone is up in arms. I just don't get it. Compensation for things like this sets up a bad example. It tells people that they'll be compensated for any little thing they don't like. Dual Pistols has a couple of powers with bugged graphics, I can't play Dual Pistols, I only have one character and it's Dual Pistols, it's been bugged for two weeks now, compensate me. Sure, it's absurd and stupid and no-one would take that seriously, but I've heard dumber requests. Recently someone talked about a criminal trial against Paragon Studios for theft because of something equally as stupid, like they promised Signature Story Arcs and they didn't deliver them, or they promised "you keep what you've bought" but veteran Premium players lose access to Inventions anyway. I forget what, but it happened. **** happens. Losing access to City of Heroes for a day isn't like losing power or losing water, because there exist other games in the world that I can still play while the servers are down, whereas I can't just plug my house in the other socket and get power from another power company when that goes down. As far as I'm concerned, compensating people are a response to angry demands is an extremely bad practice, because it breeds entitlement where it really isn't due. I won't exactly rise up in arms if it happened, but I won't support it by the same token. And on my side, the servers are down until 11 PM at night. |
I agree completely with everything Sam said in one of his posts.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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You don't "require" your cell phone, but if you couldn't use it for more than 2 days in a month I can guarantee you'd be calling and ******** about it. Trust me, I know I worked for cingular/att and people would demand credit to their account for one call dropping.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I really don't get this, honestly. I remember a time when the servers went down every day and stayed down for the full 2-hour window, except on weekends. The first day I logged into the game, I got booted from the servers within half an hour by daily maintenance. Two hours a day, five days a week and no-one complained.
And yet now if the servers go down for extended maintenance once a week, everyone is up in arms. I just don't get it. Compensation for things like this sets up a bad example. It tells people that they'll be compensated for any little thing they don't like. Dual Pistols has a couple of powers with bugged graphics, I can't play Dual Pistols, I only have one character and it's Dual Pistols, it's been bugged for two weeks now, compensate me. Sure, it's absurd and stupid and no-one would take that seriously, but I've heard dumber requests. Recently someone talked about a criminal trial against Paragon Studios for theft because of something equally as stupid, like they promised Signature Story Arcs and they didn't deliver them, or they promised "you keep what you've bought" but veteran Premium players lose access to Inventions anyway. I forget what, but it happened. **** happens. Losing access to City of Heroes for a day isn't like losing power or losing water, because there exist other games in the world that I can still play while the servers are down, whereas I can't just plug my house in the other socket and get power from another power company when that goes down. As far as I'm concerned, compensating people are a response to angry demands is an extremely bad practice, because it breeds entitlement where it really isn't due. I won't exactly rise up in arms if it happened, but I won't support it by the same token. And on my side, the servers are down until 11 PM at night. |
It's not the point what kind of service it is, if you pay for it, you should be able to access it. We all put up with weekly maintence. sometimes it goes long and we live with it because it is like this with all MMO"s. But really, would you switch cell carriers in a heartbeat if they brought your cell service down every thursday morning?
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Going by the logic of "getting every last penny's worth you paid for" if you paid the $15 this month then you could, at most, play for 720 hours (24X30) this month. Do you normally play around 720 hours each month or do you manage a few hours of sleep/work/school/eating in that time as well?|
Originally Posted by USA America
So, i'm not entilted to what i pay for? And few hours is more like few days this month, and yes its been all during my play time since i play mornings.
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This idea that you deserve compensation for the lost "portion" of time you paid for is laughably ludicrous given that basically NO ONE plays as many hours as we've ALL technically paid for.
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
30+ hours all down to maintance, and emergency maintance, all scheduled in my prime play hours. I'd like that time that I've paid for that was denied due to Paragon's snafu, credited to my account. What is wrong with that?
Who said I'm upset, I'd just like to see that Paragon has any form of loyality to their subscribers. If boohiss Activ-Blizzard can do it, surely Paragon who aren't apparantly all evil scumbags, who feast on the tears of the frustrated, can do it to? |
I am not nerd raging but compensation seems reasonable.
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Your designated game time is in no way the responsibility of Paragon Studios.
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Originally Posted by USA America
So, i'm not entilted to what i pay for? And few hours is more like few days this month, and yes its been all during my play time since i play mornings.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Going by the logic of "getting every last penny's worth you paid for" if you paid the $15 this month then you could, at most, play for 720 hours (24X30) this month. Do you normally play around 720 hours each month or do you manage a few hours of sleep/work/school/eating in that time as well?
This idea that that you deserve compensation for the lost "portion" of time you paid for is laughably ludicrous given that basically NO ONE plays as many hours as we've ALL technically paid for. |
I've got to ask, you're from NA aren't you?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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I never suggested they did. How about you not jump into a conversation that isn't directed to you? Or perhaps you read the previous posts instead of taking this one out of context?
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Again, haven't heard any of them say anything even remotely similar to this.
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Let's be honest here and get it out in the open EULA's are not binding in any court except in ONE case.
EULA's let companies get you off the phone/out of the office until you have time to cool off. In reality they are a delaying move and just a legal disclaimer. Most people will do exactly what a lot here are doing they say we read the disclaimer it says you agree.............and so people drop it.
Good business practice is a LOT different from required business practices.
Example: You have a bugged mission and a GM shows up. He says yes it is bugged. Now you used your free drop of a mission on an earlier bugged mission. The GM could say - well exit and abandon the mission and in 3 days drop this one, or he could say - would you like me to complete this one for you so you can continue on your arc?
Which one leads to retaining customers?
A reasonable business would make a short statement like:
Hi folks - we have had a few teething problems with the new servers and the new Freedom remodel. To show our appreciation for your patience and our love of our players we are offering a Double XP weekend and a free Sequined thong or whtever costume piece.
Then they are out 40 points each player who doesn't have it already and nothing else and have gained good will from the player base which equates to MORE money.
Why would anyone be against 100 PP as compensation for the downtime? Our friends EU/Atlantic would appreciate this simple gesture no?
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I'm actually curious, if they're this upset over a dollar, what do they do when something that's actually bad happens? And don't forget, if they buy more then a month at a time, or use certain time cards, it's even less then a dollar.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I only hope that I can someday live in a world where missing out on a few hours of playing a GAME made me think it was reasonable and justified enough to get the company running that game to either refund me a whole entire DOLLAR or give me an extra day to play. I only wish I had so little to worry about that something like -this- would be important enough to get upset about.
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Nowhere does it state that your monthly subscription fee is paying for 24/7 access to the servers. If it was stated that we'd have 24/7 access to the servers, I'd say you are correct. In this case, you aren't.|
Originally Posted by USA America
So, i'm not entilted to what i pay for? And few hours is more like few days this month, and yes its been all during my play time since i play mornings.
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You are getting what you pay for.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Yes. But even if I wasn't then there would always be -some- time I could play, even if that was at my 3am local time. The fact that you don't WANT to play at your local 3am timeframe is immaterial. You're paying for it anyway so why don't you play at 3am?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
I've got to ask, you're from NA aren't you?
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Now I want sequined thongs for all my characters. I demand we are given them NOW!
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So a game should always be available and never have any downtime for fixes and upgrades? We had a launch, we lost a few hours. That all seems standard operating procedure for a game. Inconvenient? Yes. Out of the norm? No.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
If you pay a monthly subscription, then it 'happened' to you. We pay for access to the servers, if those servers are not available, then you cannot play.
You seem to be missing the point. Hiding behind a EULA, in this instance, is legal but it's not good customer service. Of course, this is my opinion. You might very well disagree. |
Don't get me wrong, I get just as annoyed as the next person when I take time to play and the servers are down. But things happen and Paragon really goes the extra mile here and through social media to keep the playerbase informed. It doesn't feel like abuse of the playerbase's trust to me. I mean we had a community rep on webcam for 12 hours the day of launch to keep the playerbase informed and occupied. It's very hard to feel slighted or mistreated when that's the attitude they take with their customer service.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Don't know where you got the every last pennys worth from my post, but using your logic, if my playtime is only 4 hours a day in the mornings and if i played every day that would be (30x4=120 hours) and they servers are down for 48 hours all morning times then i was only able to access the game i pay for a little over half the month. so I actually got much less play time. (using your logic)
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Going by the logic of "getting every last penny's worth you paid for" if you paid the $15 this month then you could, at most, play for 720 hours (24X30) this month. Do you normally play around 720 hours each month or do you manage a few hours of sleep/work/school/eating in that time as well?
This idea that you deserve compensation for the lost "portion" of time you paid for is laughably ludicrous given that basically NO ONE plays as many hours as we've ALL technically paid for. |
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Originally Posted by Tinier Bolt
I'm actually curious, if they're this upset over a dollar, what do they do when something that's actually bad happens? And don't forget, if they buy more then a month at a time, or use certain time cards, it's even less then a dollar.
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Who is upset over a dollar? I'm a little bit narked about 30+ hours of downtime that's all aimed at the prime play time of a couple of time zones.
2 hours a week, no problem. 30+ in a week and a bit? That's pushing it a bit.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
There's a thing call "choosing your battles". This is not a battle worth fighting.
This isn't like opening pandoras box.
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