Discussion: Extended Live Server Maintenance - Thursday, September 22, 2011

Madadh · 09-23-2011 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybofreak

Seriously you just compared Europe to FIJI !! your just asking to be trolled

Yes, that was pretty unwise. It was a choice I made based on relative positions on the globe, but doubtless I'll suffer for it. The fact that I'm from the EU, or personally love Fiji, both the climate and the hospitality of the folks when I visited, I expect will be irrelevant to many, I'm sure. And I'm sure many will use that as a reason to not look at the analogy as a whole and look at the sentiment intended. I clearly should have just said, "A theoretical population located appx 1/3 the distance around the globe, and with a smaller player base." Feel free to substitute that in for then, for Fiji, and then re-think about the analogy.

Madadh · 09-23-2011 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta

ppl who pay 4 a service are entitled to complain as part of their statutory rights plain and simple.

I don't think anyone said that you weren't allowed to complain. If someone did, I missed it. People have asked for fewer complaints over things that will not change. I have tried to explain why in may in fact be counter productive, too. The poster you refered to was just trying to demonstrate the realtively minor nature over what you are complaining about. It's a game. I'd like to be playing it right now, too, but I can't either. But it really isn't worth getting lathered over. If I am no longer getting my moneys worth, I'll stop renewing my monthly sub fee. I'd advise you to make a similar value judgement.

All that having been said, I don't think you have an actual 'statutory right' to complain, in this specific forum. If you do, in fact, I'd be very curious to know the specific statute, and what body passed it. Can you please supply that information? Because I have, literally, got to see it, to believe it.

SinergyX_EU · 09-23-2011 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madadh

All that having been said, I don't think you have an actual 'statutory right' to complain, in this specific forum. If you do, in fact, I'd be very curious to know the specific statute, and what body passed it. Can you please supply that information? Because I have, literally, got to see it, to believe it.

Freedom of speech, enough for you?

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SolarSentai · 09-23-2011 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta

its an entirely different situation, hes not payin 4 medical care n such, the fact that ppl like u even attempt to compare a vet with no legs to a subscription fee based game is absolutly insane and childish, there is no comparison because its simply far out and nonsense, i genuinly feel sorry 4 the guy but this is a different scenario and the poverty and no legs guilt trip do not work on me, ppl who pay 4 a service are entitled to complain as part of their statutory rights plain and simple.

I think the moral of the story was:

Keep things in perspective and things could always be worse.

FWIW (and I think I've been using that far too often lately) CoH used to be a huge part of my daily life. For a few years I was pretty much engulfed in the game to the point where if I didn't get to play it was the end of the world for me and I didn't know what to do with myself otherwise.

Now, not so much.

So I do feel all the pain about the downtime... but we'll all get over it and move on with life

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Phillygirl · 09-23-2011 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU

Or you read my reply earlier in this topic, with a quote from the support.

Yeah sorry dude not committing that much time to go back and read all the posts in this thread. Regardless of what CS said to you personally if they get enough petitions from players who are not happy with the downtime it will do more than posting in this thread.

I know for a fact that a group of people have gotten a free month when they where inadvertently banned for 3 days. But only because they took it up with Customer service. OCR is the ones that read this thread and they have no power to do anything but report that people are not happy. CS actually has some power.

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Vega · 09-23-2011 07:16 AM

Seriously, all of this downtime is getting really annoying.

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SinergyX_EU · 09-23-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarSentai

Keep things in perspective and things could always be worse.

Perspective, does that include comparing your life with perhaps 3rd world people or homeless people? So rich people should never complain about poor service they get at their regular 5 star hotel, nor can factoryworkers for being underpaid because there are people that dont even have a job?

So if your new mobile phone reboots every day, you never go back to the shop, because you feel you have the privilege of actualy having a mobile phone thus you shouldnt complain about this?

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Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

MaestroMavius · 09-23-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU

Freedom of speech, enough for you?

I could be snarky and mention how it's not. Since the rules of the forum prevent all kinds of speech from being free but nah...

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Madadh · 09-23-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

All that having been said, I don't think you have an actual 'statutory right' to complain, in this specific forum. If you do, in fact, I'd be very curious to know the specific statute, and what body passed it. Can you please supply that information? Because I have, literally, got to see it, to believe it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU

Freedom of speech, enough for you?

Actually, no. And I've bolded the relevant section of my original post to address why that's insufficient. If you're referring to the US Bill of Rights 1st Amendment, or Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights they both do not cover forums that are private property on which those granted access agree to a moderators ability to censer, of which this is one.

BeornAgain · 09-23-2011 07:22 AM

again... down again... WTF...

Frost Warden · 09-23-2011 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU

Freedom of speech, enough for you?

First off, I have nothing against people complaining about the downtime. It has been excessive lately.

However, Freedom of Speech does not apply to this forum, which is a private venue. Freedom of Speech only applies to public venues and forums. Proof of this? Moderators can and will enforce rules of conduct, either by modifying and/or deleting a post/thread.

Not trying to be condescending, just wanting to inform.

I find your lack of signature disturbing.

Ruby · 09-23-2011 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertron

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

All other arguments and topics aside, this is possibly the most untrue statement I noticed when browsing this thread. I cannot stress this enough!

goesto · 09-23-2011 07:43 AM

servers might be up soon guys.....so you can get your daily dose in again
lol

Madadh · 09-23-2011 07:44 AM

"THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby

All other arguments and topics aside, this is possibly the most untrue statement I noticed when browsing this thread. I cannot stress this enough!

I think everyone knows this isn't true. Or, it isn't for any company with more than 1 customer. If it were true, and 2 customers disagreed, the paradox would destroy the universe.

Edited: To steal Ardrea's idea to add the original quote, at the top for clarity.

Ardrea · 09-23-2011 07:45 AM

"THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby

All other arguments and topics aside, this is possibly the most untrue statement I noticed when browsing this thread. I cannot stress this enough!

Have to agree here; this isn't a law of nature, it's just a commonly used slogan with a non-literal meaning. it's supposed to be easy for employees to remember, repeat, and act on -- act in a way that doesn't lose customers when they're upset over something. Paragon Studios could do worse than to exercise that slogan's original intent here, but we can't make them; and angry, strident demands for compensation may actually be counterproductive.

Guinevere · 09-23-2011 07:47 AM

Just logged into Union.

EU_Damz · 09-23-2011 07:47 AM

In reply to @Madadh:

Your posts in reply to mine did i suppose have a valid point. I suppose in some instances we [as the EU] can be seen as "over sensitive" in that any small hiccup these days gets turned into a "why us?" thread. The only reason i can see this being is because of past experiences with this game and you are right, people telling us to stop complaining do pay their subs too and i shouldnt've stepped over the mark by telling them to stop telling us to.
So in that respect i will say sorry

Im just a passionate player who sticks up for my fellow EU players when i feel we are being treated poorly. I agree that i am perhaps too vocal about this ongoing situation but thats my downfall [one of many ] and just feel strongly that these downtime situations could have been handled a lot better.
For example if we had even had a bit more notice at the start of the month saying that there will be multiple and long downtime to increase the server and hardware, then yes there would have been still "Are you kidding me!?" posts but a lot more people would have understood. To myself personally it feels a little "sneaky" that they have been posting these downtime notices VERY late in our night/early about the following morning.

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SinergyX_EU · 09-23-2011 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frost Warden

First off, I have nothing against people complaining about the downtime. It has been excessive lately.

However, Freedom of Speech does not apply to this forum, which is a private venue. Freedom of Speech only applies to public venues and forums. Proof of this? Moderators can and will enforce rules of conduct, either by modifying and/or deleting a post/thread.

Not trying to be condescending, just wanting to inform.

And Rules of Conduct follow the same rules that 'counter' freedom of speech.

As long i stay within the rules of the forum, i am free to say whatever i want. I was not refering to the 'US law' (EU version is somewhat different though), but the generic freedom of speech on this forum, within the rules of the forum.

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Thany144 · 09-23-2011 07:51 AM

if you dont like the idea that people express their disappointment I say to bad. If your in business then you have to live with the unsatisfied customer base. The concerted effort of some in this thread to belittle and silence said complaints dont help the company. It creates more discontent. You can say i disagree that these issues are as important and leave it at that. Yet the moment you say complaining about the issues is stupid or childish or wrong you make no true point and just cement their point of view.

Gangrel_EU · 09-23-2011 07:52 AM

Ahh buggerit. i am going to play the game now instead of following the tit for tat...

SinergyX_EU · 09-23-2011 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Ahh buggerit. i am going to play the game now instead of following the tit for tat...

And thats exactly what the mods/devs/whatever's are hoping for.

People express their thoughts/complaints/feelings, eventualy the server goes back up and nobody even cares anymore, since majority of US people sleeping anyway during the time we are very unhappy, 'nobody cares'.

That is, untill the next downtime.

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(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

Madadh · 09-23-2011 08:04 AM

I totally hear you. ANd I get all of it. I agree with how you feel, even. I'm from the EU too, although I do now live int he US, but I get the feeling. And my schedule is such that my peak time is the same as yours, not the US peak time.

I love your passion, and respect your opinions and desire to stick up for your fellow EU players. But passion can, when allowed, cause confrontations that are counter-productive. Having sat on both sides of issues very similar to this, I was just trying to play the role of hopefully calm moderator, even though, as a player with the same hours as you, obviously I have a vested interest identical to yours. I just think that we'll get as close to what we want most effectively by different means on this one.

So, no need to apologize as far as I'm concerned, and I hope you don't think any of what I said was meant as a criticism, just a differing POV.

As for the sneakiness, or the how and why of when they announce what they do, I honestly don't think they can win. If the announce ahead of time, they have the complaints (from some people, perhaps just a small, but nonetheless, vocal minority but they will be there) from whenever the announce it, up to shortly after the servers come back up. And they have unhappy people for that length of time. If the do it later, same results. Maybe more people in total, but for a much shorter period of time.

I think *if* everyone were calm and rational about things, the announcements in advance would be much better, and I like to think that they would do it under those circumstances. But we all know that that just isn't how it would happen. So they make the tough choice to give us less notice so as to reduce the angst and duration of unhappiness. Is it better? Not to me, personally, but I think it might be better as a whole. To close to call in my book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EU_Damz

In reply to @Madadh:

Your posts in reply to mine did i suppose have a valid point. I suppose in some instances we [as the EU] can be seen as "over sensitive" in that any small hiccup these days gets turned into a "why us?" thread. The only reason i can see this being is because of past experiences with this game and you are right, people telling us to stop complaining do pay their subs too and i shouldnt've stepped over the mark by telling them to stop telling us to.
So in that respect i will say sorry

Im just a passionate player who sticks up for my fellow EU players when i feel we are being treated poorly. I agree that i am perhaps too vocal about this ongoing situation but thats my downfall [one of many

] and just feel strongly that these downtime situations could have been handled a lot better.
For example if we had even had a bit more notice at the start of the month saying that there will be multiple and long downtime to increase the server and hardware, then yes there would have been still "

Are you kidding me!?" posts but a lot more people would have understood. To myself personally it feels a little "sneaky" that they have been posting these downtime notices VERY late in our night/early about the following morning.

rsclark · 09-23-2011 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer

Server downtime is temporary.

No legs is not.

I'm down one leg.

The point you are trying to make is not valid.

Madadh · 09-23-2011 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU

And Rules of Conduct follow the same rules that 'counter' freedom of speech.

As long i stay within the rules of the forum, i am free to say whatever i want. I was not refering to the 'US law' (EU version is somewhat different though), but the generic freedom of speech on this forum, within the rules of the forum.

Even is you count the Terms of Service as a statute, and not as a contract, I don't believe the terms or service ever lays out a guaranteed right to complain about anything about the game and it's service and promises to never censure such complaints.

Gemini_2099 · 09-23-2011 08:16 AM

110 PP sounds fair to me as compensation.