City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

seriously, I have to put endred in every power?

Aggelakis

By Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-08-27 15:22 in Player Questions

 

Posted

..

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare-j78 View Post
How many slots do I have to dedicate to endred? Is 4 on each power enough? No matter what I do Im always drained. I am currently playin a lvl 32 elec/shield who can only fight like one badguy before being completely drained. I have 2 endrec (30 IOs) in each toggle on the shield side already. I think I am just going endrec in the rest of all my powers. If this doesnt help then this game is seriously broken. Not much fun when you cant do anything (nevermind you miss %50 of the time).
Emphasis added. Just checking, you ARE slotting damage and accuracy too, right?
If you're not hitting often enough and not doing a lot of damage when you hit, you will consume more endurance over the course of the fight because it will take a long time and require more power activations. There is no power in the game that should require excessively heavy endred slotting.

"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.

 

Posted

Well I havent 3 slotted Stamina yet, I have one EndMod in there so far. I have one acc in each melee attack, no dmg as theres no room with all the endrecs already.

So what would be best? 1 acc, 1 dmg 2 endrecs? (for melee)

 

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Also, turn off any travel power you may have on. Every toggle is taking a toll.

Teams are the number one killer of soloists.

 

Posted

Also, you get more benefit slotting end red into click powers, such as attacks, than you do in toggles. I generally slot about 1 SO worth of end red into most powers, more in some, less in others depending on the specific powers.

I would recommend posting a build for the scrapper forums to comment on. They've got the mad build skills down there.

Titan Sentinel can be used to export your current in-game build, and MIDs Hero Designer to plan it.

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@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare-j78 View Post
Well I havent 3 slotted Stamina yet, I have one EndMod in there so far. I have one acc in each melee attack, no dmg as theres no room with all the endrecs already.

So what would be best? 1 acc, 1 dmg 2 endrecs? (for melee)
I typically slot my melee powers 3 dam 1 acc 1 end 1 rech, might switch the rech for another acc depending on how quickly it already recharges.
You certainly don't need 4 endred SOs! It's a long story but the fourth one is useless as it has a minimal effect.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
Also, turn off any travel power you may have on. Every toggle is taking a toll.
Yes, if you're struggling disable the like of super jump, fly, super speed and even sprint while in combat.

"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.

 

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Dare-j78

Titan Senital

and

Mids Hero Designer

are two community created tools for City of Heroes that let you export your ingame build and display it easily on the forums. This allows others to quickly see weak spots in your build choice.

 

Posted

Agreed with everyone else that you really shouldn't need that much End Red, generally one per click power will do for most toons (I once read an approximation that an End Red in an attack power pays for a toggle power to be active).

Secondly, get 2 more slots in Stamina, and End Mod slot them, as suggested. It'll help a great deal.

Third, with no Dam in your attacks (I'd recommend 3) you're having to use (a little less than) twice as many attacks to kill your targets. That's going to be butchering your Endurance use.

The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
Also, turn off any travel power you may have on. Every toggle is taking a toll.
Especially Ninja and Beast Run. Those two suck end like a vacuum cleaner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Shadowdream View Post
Ninja/Beast run are a end hog that people don't usually consider too.
Nevermind.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare-j78 View Post
How many slots do I have to dedicate to endred? Is 4 on each power enough? No matter what I do Im always drained. I am currently playin a lvl 32 elec/shield who can only fight like one badguy before being completely drained. I have 2 endrec (30 IOs) in each toggle on the shield side already. I think I am just going endrec in the rest of all my powers. If this doesnt help then this game is seriously broken. Not much fun when you cant do anything (nevermind you miss %50 of the time).
Just to note, with the Combat Attributes monitor, and the smart tooltips, you can A) know how much end you're getting in Recovery and How much you're spending on toggles.

Additionally, slotting a lot into toggles isn't always as efficient as putting 1 in each attack. Lets say you're looking at putting an EndRed in a toggle or in an attack. The attack costs 8End, the toggle costs .8/sec and has one in it already, lowering it to .6 (these are all made up numbers). Putting a second EndRed in the toggle would reduce it to .45/sec. Putting that EndRed in the attack would reduce it from 8End to 6. Lets say the attack takes 4 seconds to fire and recharge, thus it has a cost of 2End/sec, reducing that to 6 makes it 1.5 End/sec. So you see where the best choice is? Save .15/sec in the toggle or save .5 by putting it in the attack.

You don't have to physically do the math each time though. Just so long as you get a grasp of where you can get the most bang for the buck.


Last thing to note, you've never mentioned what difficulty setting you're running on. If you were really missing that much (as opposed to just seeming to notice yourself missing) then I would instantly say your setting is too high. Your chance to Hit gets reduced, as does your damage. Thus it takes more attacks to kill something, more time to use them, and more Endurance to get the job done. You need to be careful to make sure your stats are up to the job before you make judgements on how broken the game is.

"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowe View Post
Agreed with everyone else that you really shouldn't need that much End Red, generally one per click power will do for most toons
This. At level 32, I don't think you should slot two EndRedux in any power. You need the other aspects of those powers more (defense, resistance, damage, accuracy).

Repeating: only one EndRedux per power, period. The rest should be Acc/Dam, with an emphasis on Dam.

At level 32, you can slot level 35 IOs. This is a good time to look at set bonuses to shore up your character. Look at the cheaper IOs. +Accuracy is easy to get. One Acc is not really enough imo but with some decent bonuses you're golden.

Look at a couple of more expensive IOs. With Tips these are fairly easy to get. Put a Miracle unique in health. Get 3 Performance Shifter in Stamina. Look at the Performance Shifter proc for Stamina too (4 slots in Stamina is kinda extravagant but worth it once you have enough slots).

Etc. I'll try to do a quick Mids build for ya.

 

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Here's one idea. Note the additional 25% accuracy and 15.5% recovery from set bonuses.



Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

brutie: Level 48 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Deflection -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(5), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), ImpArm-ResDam(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(7), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(11), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 6: True Grit -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(11), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(23), ImpArm-ResDam(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(29)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(15), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Empty(25)
Level 10: Active Defense -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 14: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(19), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(19), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(21), GftotA-Def(21)
Level 22: Charged Brawl -- B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), B'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Lightning Clap -- Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(A), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(27), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(27)
Level 28: Aid Other -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 3.75% Defense(Psionic)
  • 25% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 5% FlySpeed
  • 146.2 HP (9.75%) HitPoints
  • 5% JumpHeight
  • 5% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 4.95%
  • 15.5% (0.26 End/sec) Recovery
  • 38% (2.37 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 2.5% Resistance(Fire)
  • 9.38% Resistance(Negative)
  • 5% RunSpeed

 

Posted

i normally slot one end reducer into click/attack powers and 1-0 in shield/toggle type powers and have few issues. Due to how end reduction works you get a lot less benefit from each additional end reducer in a power compared to slotting it for more damage or other effects.

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

I've found that at the very least, putting 1 endurance reducer in the 2 or 3 fastest recharging attacks helps tremendously. Quite often, the tier 1 and 2 attacks, even though they use less endurance per activation than the next couple up, will use more in the long run. Firing off 2 faster ones will use more endurance than one of the slower ones.

Additionally, I've found 2 endurance mods in Stamina seems to be the most effective (the third one does not seem to provide a significant amount of benefit). When possible though, I like to slot Stamina with a Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance, a Performance Shifter: Endurance Mod, and a generic Endurance Mod. Since the P-Shifter Endurance Mod is no different than the generic, you are still effectively slotting with 2 endurance mods, plus getting a nice little movement speed bonus out of the deal, plus frequently getting an endurance boost.

 

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I know this should be obvious but as you add recharge to the attacks in your attack chain then your chain will use more endurance per second since you can trigger them faster. They go hand and hand and along with Accuracy and Damage. It doesn't matter if you can do a lot of damage if you can't hit but you also want to do enough damage when you do hit to reduce the number of attacks needed to defeat the critter.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leese View Post
I typically slot my melee powers 3 dam 1 acc 1 end 1 rech, might switch the rech for another acc depending on how quickly it already recharges.
I would do this and add a 2nd acc for any power that hits more than one target. I would slot recharge last. At SO level, I slot 1-2 acc, end, 3 damage, and 0-1 recharge in that order.

 

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This thread will likely be of some use to you as well.

 

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Make sure you remember to use combat travel powers instead of distance travel powers when in a fight (hover, not flight, combat jumping, not superleap, etc). And turn sprint off when you're not using it.

 

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In general, slotting a power with either one damage or one endredux should have comparable effects on how much endurance you use killing an enemy. Except that, since enemies regenerate health while they're still standing, damage is actually better.

The thing endredux can give you is that you can fight for longer. The thing damage gives you is that you don't have to. A mix of both should usually be good.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
In general, slotting a power with either one damage or one endredux should have comparable effects on how much endurance you use killing an enemy. Except that, since enemies regenerate health while they're still standing, damage is actually better.

The thing endredux can give you is that you can fight for longer. The thing damage gives you is that you don't have to. A mix of both should usually be good.
Note: This doesn't really apply to Brutes, due to the mechanics of Fury and how damage buffs work. Brutes generally want to keep fighting much closer to non stop than other ATs to maintain fury (less so than in the past). When you build Fury, it applies a damage buff to all your powers (getting to ~150% damage buff is a reasonable level), which means that Damage SOs will have a much smaller relative impact. For Brutes, you definitely want to put more effort into end reds than damage (I generally don't slot my Brutes for damage, maybe 1 SOs worth, except for the heavy hitting attacks in the set).

For Scrappers, Stalkers, and, well, everyone else that isn't named 'Brutes', what you said is definitely what you wanna do (although I'd say that overkill would swing it back to making 1 end red slightly better than 1 +damage... but the difference either way isn't enough to really care, just slot both!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Last thing to note, you've never mentioned what difficulty setting you're running on. If you were really missing that much (as opposed to just seeming to notice yourself missing) then I would instantly say your setting is too high. Your chance to Hit gets reduced, as does your damage. Thus it takes more attacks to kill something, more time to use them, and more Endurance to get the job done.
It might also be what (s)he is fighting. CoT Spectral Demon Lords are hell around the mid-levels because of that wretched -ToHit debuff. It's also pretty easy to get your end sucked dry trying to defeat a whole horde of Mu Mystics; even Freakshow Juicers (not normally considered a "problem" enemy) can make your life miserable if you're having end issues to begin with.

 

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Three things I do as soon as I can for end issues (after three slotting stamina for end mod, of course):

Slot perf shifter +recovery (in stamina)
Slot miracle +recovery (in health)
Slot numina +regen/recovery (in health)

You will still need end red in some powers (the ones that suck end), but these make a world of difference, and aren't that hard to get these days.

 

Posted

I usually slot Acc, then damage, then end reduct, usually in that order. That way I'm always hitting (around 95% on whites) always doing slightly more damage then before (think 33% more) and costing less end.

On my toggles i usually do 1-2 end reduct, and 1-3 defense/resistance/heal, whatever it enhances. I normally create an IO build with sets, then try to duplicate the important values (damage, acc, end, recharge) via SOs. Then when i hit level 37/47 and replace those SOs with IOs, i have about the same character, just with the added bonuses of sets.