seriously, I have to put endred in every power?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-08-27 15:22 in Player Questions
Are you still using Training and Dual Origin enhancements? :x
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I don't think I've ever had to bother slotting EndReducers on any toon unless they have debuff toggles.
Stamina 3 slotted with SO's and I'm usually golden, even on Blasters...
Whatever bonus I get from Frankenslotting is just gravy.
(Then again I'm from the oldschool 1 acc 5 dam mindset still.)
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The advice above is spot on. Turn off tier three travel powers, ninja beast run, slotting acc and damage will require fewer attacks to defeat, etc.
three more things I haven't seen mentioned.
Using the right attack. AOE attacks take lot's of end. so do the high damage attacks. if you are using AOEs to attack one mob, it's inefficient. If you use Thunderstrike to defeat a mob with a sliver of health, it's inefficient. This concept was a game changer for me five years ago when someone pointed it out.
Miracle and Numina sets have procs that boost recovery as well as some set bonuses. They can be expensive, but have a noticable impact. can be bought at the market, merit rewards, or earned through tips.
Lastly, some sets are more End Hogs than others. You have two of them. My elec melee is paired with elec armor, so I get a couple powers in that set to gain end from mobs and conserve end. That being said, it was still end tight until the 30s. Shield was the same for me. Make friends with a Kinetic defender or that lonely Empathy defender out there. "You get by with a little help from your fiends."
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Furthermore, since End increases the denominator of a fraction, that means that each additional End you add is less effective than the ones that came before. Using the standard SO valuation of 33%, one End-reduc means you're using 3/4 as much power as you were before. Two means you're using 3/5. The first end-reduc reduces your use by 5 parts out of 20, but your second only reduces it by 3 parts out of 20 further, and a third would only reduce it by 2 parts beyond that.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
This. At level 32, I don't think you should slot two EndRedux in any power. You need the other aspects of those powers more (defense, resistance, damage, accuracy).
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Given the choice between slotting two End Reducs in one power or one each in two powers, you may get a better bargain by slotting them in different powers (unless the one power is a huge end hog).
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I have a lvl 27 claws/regen stalker dog alt that keeps beast run on permanently, he looks wrong stood up normally.|
Originally Posted by Neo Shadowdream
Ninja/Beast run are a end hog that people don't usually consider too.
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I tned to turn off sprint instead if I need the endurance. He has hide on in missions pretty much all the time too. Stamina is 3 slotted with SOs and it's not a major problem
Jette
Ninja/Beast run, are 0.46 end/s compared to sprint, and it's variants at .29 end/s. Not calling you out, just pointing it out.
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Hide hasn't used endurance in quite a long time... no reason to turn it off (well, unless you're escorting a hostage |
Originally Posted by Jette
He has hide on in missions pretty much all the time too.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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You're a /regen. You've got double Stamina. If you're having endurance issues on a /regen or /willpower, you're doing something seriously wrong.
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Originally Posted by Jette
I have a lvl 27 claws/regen stalker dog alt that keeps beast run on permanently, he looks wrong stood up normally.
I tned to turn off sprint instead if I need the endurance. He has hide on in missions pretty much all the time too. Stamina is 3 slotted with SOs and it's not a major problem |
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Eh, my kat/regen has endurance issue.. if i do nothing but attack for about 4 minutes straight. Granted, he runs quite a number of toggles, (sprint included) and runs the top katana attack chain, which is by no means endurance light. He also has Physical Perfection, and 3 +end procs... |
Originally Posted by Katie V
You're a /regen. You've got double Stamina. If you're having endurance issues on a /regen or /willpower, you're doing something seriously wrong.
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I really only run outta end if i don't use MoG every 3 minutes or so, and i do have conserve power to keep be going just about forever. But /regen doesn't always mean 'unlimited endurance' and willpower has 4 toggles at base, so quick recovery is almost a must due to the number of inherent toggles is has to run.
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He's a stalker. He doesn't get quick recovery.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
You're a /regen. You've got double Stamina. If you're having endurance issues on a /regen or /willpower, you're doing something seriously wrong.
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Four is actually TOO many. Because of diminishing returns/enhancement diversification, the amount you gain after the second enhancement is reduced. After the third, the gain is small that it is not worth it. You are much better off moving that slot over to Stamina and adding in a second END MOD there. |
Originally Posted by Dare-j78
How many slots do I have to dedicate to endred? Is 4 on each power enough?
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For Endurance management, I typically 4 slot my Stamina. I either put in 3 END MODs and a "Chance for END" from one of the Endurance Modification sets, or I try to partially slot one of the END MOD sets to get the set bonuses, depending on the AT and Build I am working on. Someone who is better at number crunching that I am can probably tell you the "optimum" way to slot your Stamina.
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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This is sound advice here. |
Originally Posted by frank4
Using the right attack. AOE attacks take lot's of end. so do the high damage attacks. if you are using AOEs to attack one mob, it's inefficient. If you use Thunderstrike to defeat a mob with a sliver of health, it's inefficient. This concept was a game changer for me five years ago when someone pointed it out.
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If you use an AoE attack that costs 10 end to defeat a foe with a sliver of health left, it would make more sense to wait a couple seconds to hit the enemy with an attack that uses 4 end.
1 end reduction in your attacks is good. 1 end reduction in most toggles is good.
But, if you are not slotting your attacks for accuracy and damage that end reduction is wasted. It doesn't matter if your attacks use less end if you have to use twice as many of them to win a fight.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Dark Regeneration|
Originally Posted by Leese
There is no power in the game that should require excessively heavy endred slotting.
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Can't use it if you have insufficient endurance to activate it.
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And before Inherent Fitness, Fire/Kin Control needed a lot of endurance slotting. It was so bad, it was amazing that anyone stuck with it long enough to get to Transference.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Dark Regeneration
Can't use it if you have insufficient endurance to activate it. |
Dunno if it is still bad endurancewise nowadays. Guess I need to dust mine off and giver her a try soon.
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Originally Posted by Dare-j78
Well I havent 3 slotted Stamina yet, I have one EndMod in there so far. I have one acc in each melee attack, no dmg as theres no room with all the endrecs already.
So what would be best? 1 acc, 1 dmg 2 endrecs? (for melee) |
To Dare-j78: Did you get this resolved? How is your build working now?
..
You should try an ss/stone brute. I was very proud of myself when I got that to 50 (after 18 months).
start looking for IOs.
There are several healing IOs that give regen + recovery and if they are placed in stamina they give this all the time. Many other IOs 2x bonuses are like 1%,1.5% & 2% recovery, depends on your powers. you want 3x end-mods in your endurance.
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Fixed.
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Originally Posted by OutaControl
start looking for IOs.
There are several healing IOs that give regen + recovery and if they are placed in health they give this all the time. Many other IOs 2x bonuses are like 1%,1.5% & 2% recovery, depends on your powers. you want 3x end-mods in your stamina. |
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well, there's yer problem.|
Originally Posted by Dare-j78
Well I havent 3 slotted Stamina yet, I have one EndMod in there so far. I have one acc in each melee attack, no dmg as theres no room with all the endrecs already.
So what would be best? 1 acc, 1 dmg 2 endrecs? (for melee) |
3 slotting stamina with endmod will nearly double your recovery. rate.
As others have said travel powers (sprint, beast/ninja run, SJ, SS, Fly, hover) except for CJ will eat your end like mad. Damage auras are also usually end heavy, as is the whole leadership pool and stealth powers. Check the end per second of any toggles you have.
Before I hit set bonuses, I like to slot 2 acc and 3 damage into attacks. Maybe 2 acc, 3 dam and an end red into damage aura toggles. for armor toggles, maybe 3 resistance (or def if that's what the power accepts) and 1 or 2 end red, depending. Once the recovery and accuracy bonuses start adding up (they're both easy to get without intending to), I alter my slotting.
If you're missing consistently, low accuracy may be a secondary root of the end issue, since you are having to cast twice as many powers to defeat the same number of foes as someone who is landing 95% of the attacks they throw.
On some toggle-heavy sets (common in scrappers, brute, stalkers, and tanks, you may just have to build the best you can and deal with the end issue until you can slot cardiac in alpha, but the situation you describe seems a bit more extreme than the typical "end hog" build. (i've not played the sets you mention, but I know dark armor can get pretty stupid on the end use)
Once you start moving towards IO builds, you'll be able to slot end reduction without having to sacrifice slots for acc, recharge, and damage. Even the cheaper sets will help with this, regardless of their bonuses (think multistrike rather than oblits; crushing impacts rather than mako's; thunderstrike rather than ... whatever the spendy ranged one is).
If you have 120 mil to burn, grab a +to hit IO (kismet? likely between 5 and 20, depending) and a perf shifter +end proc (likely around 100). Those will help with the acc slotting and solve some end issues, respectively.
Some builds need a little more care in the building to avoid end issues, but the general mechanics have never seemed broken to me in the last 6 years. I've also never felt any compulsion to slot end reduction in my single target attacks, so I suspect you'll be able to sort it out without having to sacrifice slots.
good luck; hope this helps.
-ba
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Originally Posted by Dare-j78
Yeah I know its my fault for having the end problems, but Im sure Im not the only one out there. It just seems like such a big deal unless you know what you are doing to counteract it. Thanks all.
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No, it's not your fault, and yes it's pretty hard to figure out on your own. I was a real dunderhead when I first started playing. Guides on the forums and the folks here straightened me out. It's something we all go through.
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Originally Posted by OutaControl
start looking for IOs.
There are several healing IOs that give regen + recovery and if they are placed in stamina they give this all the time. Many other IOs 2x bonuses are like 1%,1.5% & 2% recovery, depends on your powers. you want 3x end-mods in your endurance. |
This. Check out that build I posted earlier. It is, at least, a starting point. It give you +15% Recovery, which is almost like 3 slotting Stamina again. (*)
Get Mids, learn to use it (it's a bit funky but the Help menu is good). Look at prices on the Market. Do some Tips, sell one expensive IO (usually Luck of the Gambler: Def/+Recharge). Spend the money on some cheap IOs. Those IOs will help you a lot more than you realize, I think.
(*) Do not 6 slot Stamina. After three slots of the same type of Enhancement, the rest do nothing. That's why IOs are so important, they (and a few other things) are the only way to boost you past the 3 slot rule.
Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask for help again if you need to. What server do you play on, btw?
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Not even close. Base Stamina is +25% recovery. Three endmods on it will bring it to nearly 50%.
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Originally Posted by Baalat
well, there's yer problem.
3 slotting stamina with endmod will nearly double your recovery rate. |
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Is it 25%? I thought it was 20%. Anyway my comment says that 15% is almost like adding 3 slots. 48.75% is probably a better "three slotted" number for Stamina then.
48.75% - 25% = 23.75%
15% ~= 23.75%.
Not really as impressive if Sta base is 25% instead of 20%, but still you can see you're adding something on the order of adding three slots. Everyone has base Sta now at 25%, so adding three slots only gets you 23.75% more. 15% is nearly as good.
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Everyone has base Sta now at 25%, so adding three slots only gets you 23.75% more. 15% is nearly as good.
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I have to retract this.
Stamina is 25% and my recovery 3 slotted is 48.75% on the money. That's with a total of 95% enhancement.
But base recovery is 1.67%, so 95% of that is 0.81%, which normally gives 0.81 Endurance per second. That's the value I should have been comparing to, since that's where the +Recovery bonus is applied.
So basically Ironblade is correct. +15% bonus is not really close to what you get with Stamina.
If you want to see your own numbers, open your Combat Attributes and look under Base and then Recovery Rate. That'll show you what your own current status is. Note that the same display also shows you what your endurance consumption is, due to toggles, so you can fairly easily gauge how much more, if any, End you might need to get.
I was going to confirm that you've upgraded to SO's, but you indicated you're using level 30 IO's so that's fine. I'm not sure what could be causing the problem you're describing.
The other big item is turning off travel powers and several people have mentioned that. You wouldn't necessarily assume it to be the case, but the travel powers are generally HUGE endurance hogs. Powers like Hover and Combat Jumping are not in that category - they are intended to be used in combat and use minimal END.
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