Is It Too Soon For Another Trek TV Series?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-08-25 13:16 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Well once they jettisoned the temporal war and the Xindi conflict, they could get back to the original races found in TOS.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
Yeah, those were both just stupid arcs. There was enough untapped potential for that era that they didn't have to go screwing it up with new species that would mysteriously disappear in one hundred years.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well once they jettisoned the temporal war and the Xindi conflict, they could get back to the original races found in TOS.
|
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
Quote:
So much this. Pull a TNG and keep it outside of any major networks hands as well! With a mature cast and fresh stories.|
Originally Posted by Zikar
Y'know what I'd like, a Star Trek series without a gimmick.
Just set it after Voyager. By a little or by a lot. And just continue the saga, boldy going where no man has gone before, on board an Enterprise. Let strong characters and stories be the draw, not gimmicks. |
SteelClaw -
I heard about the Starfleet Academey show pitched way back and always thought it would turn out to be Dawson's Creek in the future.
Your version is a bit more thought out though and actually sounds interesting. If they could keep it older, as in college age and have star trek type plots instead of melodrama, I could see it taking off.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
"Dawson's Creek in the future."
This is my fear as well for a Starfleet Academy show. Also, and this is my opinion, Both Enterprise and JJ Abrams-Trek took the best TNG movie, First Contact, and used it to take a steaming pile on the original time line. After all these years, directors and produces still come along and thing they have a better idea about Star Trek than Gene Roddenberry, only to be proven wrong. Enterprise thought the best formula was to get as many aspects of TNG into the show as possible (regardless of whether they fit or not). JJ Abrams thought all of Star Trek was Kirk and Spock and the entire Trek universe was just a supporting cast.
Like it has been said, if you are going to create a new show, drop the gimmicks, get back to basics of allowing the viewer to establish a rapport with the crew an come up with stories that can carry the show with or without flashy effects.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Quote:
This is a good idea. As to when i sa go wiht the STO time line. Game aside the set up was good.
|
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
I had an idea for a series, but the movies wiped it out.
For all its claims to multiculturalism, humanity has been the leader of the Federation, the Federation by and large represents human morality. You measure up to our standards, or you don't get in. This has to have caused some friction/simmering resentment, but the advantages of being in the Federation were so overwhelming in terms of safety and commerce, planets accepted the bargain. The Dominion War broke those advantages. For the first time, the Federation provided no real safety, and may even have made one a target. And it's clear that the big terror was "they may take Earth". OK, the war was won, but a lot of people dead, a lot of planets damaged. Wouldn't some of those resentments come out? "You let our people die while protecting Earth. Why should we be the buffer protecting Earth from the opponents they provoke?" So the new series would be about rebuilding the Federation. Building a truly interplanetary Federation. With an interplanetary crew, and yes, I'd have a non-human captain. So part would be dealing with the assumptions of "human morality is the correct morality", but also the risks of "hey, whatever you want to do, it's good if you think it's good." |
Quote:
To be fair, the technical manuals for Voyager mention that the nacelles are designed to allow them to achieve warp speeds without damaging the fabric of space or whatever. That's why Voyager's nacelles angle up before heading to warp.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Related to your "limited warp travel based on a lack of dilithium" idea I think there was already a TNG episode where they discovered that excessive warping through critical regions of space was somehow destabilizing it and causing problems for planets in those regions. The net effect was that the civilizations in the galaxy were going to have to figure out less destructive alternatives to warp drives within a matter of decades before they collectively screwed up the entire galaxy. Clearly this plotline was meant to be a cautionary "climate change in space" analogy.
 This could lead to all sorts of dramas like various races either choosing to voluntarily cut back on warp travel or other races ignoring the warnings and causing all sorts of panic and/or fighting. Basically this could serve as a basis to "reboot" the future galaxy much the way you described. |
That's right. Voyager is the Prius of the Star Trek Universe.
As for the topic at hand, I think that the biggest problem with making a new Star Trek series is that the concept of having a strongly story-focused show with the potential for lots of flashy effects and CG is anathema to a lot of the networks these days. They'll always be pushing for more flash, more sex, and to aim for the young, edgy teen market. And any time that they try to put out an intelligent sci-fi show, they're always running the razor's edge in dealing with the network. I think this is part of the reason why Dr. Who is gaining as much prominence among sci-fi viewers in North America as it has over the last few years. They're able to tell the intelligent stories without as much or as forceful executive meddling from the BBC.
This isn't to say that the BBC doesn't try to nose its way into the production of the show, just that it's the difference between fighting a Heavyweight boxer vs. fighting Superman. Nor is it to say that there is no good, intelligent sci-fi coming out of the US, just that executive meddling usually kills it in fairly short order.
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
Quote:
Star Trek is about the exploration of humanity... what it is to be human. That would be a difficult sell if the Captain was an alien. I'd rather not see an alien captain for the sake of having an alien captain.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Star Trek has always promoted the idea that the Federation is totally pluralistic with hundreds of worlds all working together yet Starfleet has always been shown as being about 95% human. Now I realize for the purposes of making TV and movies that it's always been easier to have a bunch of plain old humans as extras walking around in the background. But it's high time for them to embrace more diverse aliens for the main cast of a given series including the "captain" of a series.
|
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Quote:
See this is where you mess up your understanding...|
Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Star Trek is about the exploration of humanity... what it is to be human. That would be a difficult sell if the Captain was an alien. I'd rather not see an alien captain for the sake of having an alien captain.
|
Star Trek is not an exploration of "mankind" but rather the philosophies, the thoughts, the emotions, the wonder, our troubles, and even taking a mirrored reflection to see how horrible or brilliant we are or could be if we were to follow this or that path.
Vulcans display a culture completely consumed by Rationalism...which isn't rational at all.
Klingons display a culture of war that leads to strife and internal problems and eventual destruction.
Romulans display a culture of xenophobia that leads to stagnation, paranoia, and destruction
Ferengi display a culture of corporate excess that leads to a culture that really can't make up its mind.
The Federation is not "humanity" it's an ideal to follow, the freedom, curiosity, balance of the other aspects displayed in the other groups.
TOS dealt with dealing with the unknown horizons with these ideals (less sophisticated version but still)
TNG dealt with maintaining those ideals
DS9 dealt with the problems of ideals in war
Voy dealt with those ideals in isolation
Ent dealt with the formation of those ideals
I don't see why ST couldn't deal with those ideals when challenged with near omnipotence or the ability to right past events.
I also don't see why an alien race couldn't be captain to get that perspective
Nor do I see why one couldn't view past alien cultures through the eyes of the federation ideals. Especially one where the culture was more advanced and so how do you deal with a culture that doesn't act like yours when you think you're right...especially a culture that lead to your own.
Quote:
My understanding is just fine, thank you.
|
Originally Posted by Durakken
See this is where you mess up your understanding...
|
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Quote:
Gene Roddenberry would disagree with you. And I believe he would know better what Star Trek is about than you do.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
See this is where you mess up your understanding...
|
Back on topic... so long as it is well written and cast, it would be a success. I for one would love to see another Trek series on television. I would like to see them get away from scripts and plot points that get drowned into the technobabble though.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Star Trek is about the exploration of humanity... what it is to be human. That would be a difficult sell if the Captain was an alien. I'd rather not see an alien captain for the sake of having an alien captain.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
My understanding is just fine, thank you.
|
You are mixing "Mankind" up with "Humanity"
What i described in many words is the "humanity" where as you are talking about "mankind"
Quote:
I'd quibble, that what you have listed really is the exploration of mankind... |
Originally Posted by Durakken
See this is where you mess up your understanding...
Star Trek is not an exploration of "mankind" but rather the philosophies, the thoughts, the emotions, the wonder, our troubles, and even taking a mirrored reflection to see how horrible or brilliant we are or could be if we were to follow this or that path. Vulcans display a culture completely consumed by Rationalism...which isn't rational at all. Klingons display a culture of war that leads to strife and internal problems and eventual destruction. Romulans display a culture of xenophobia that leads to stagnation, paranoia, and destruction Ferengi display a culture of corporate excess that leads to a culture that really can't make up its mind. The Federation is not "humanity" it's an ideal to follow, the freedom, curiosity, balance of the other aspects displayed in the other groups. TOS dealt with dealing with the unknown horizons with these ideals (less sophisticated version but still) TNG dealt with maintaining those ideals DS9 dealt with the problems of ideals in war Voy dealt with those ideals in isolation Ent dealt with the formation of those ideals I don't see why ST couldn't deal with those ideals when challenged with near omnipotence or the ability to right past events. I also don't see why an alien race couldn't be captain to get that perspective Nor do I see why one couldn't view past alien cultures through the eyes of the federation ideals. Especially one where the culture was more advanced and so how do you deal with a culture that doesn't act like yours when you think you're right...especially a culture that lead to your own. |
But, I belive that an alien as captain would be a fine furtherance of exploring humanity - for both that character and for us as viewers.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
As much as I love the concept of Time Travel, this really irks me how they pick and choose when and how they implement the ole Temporal Prime Directive.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
One problem with a ship being blasted into the future is that supposedly in the future the Federation can time warp as easily as warping thru space and they have a Temporal Prime Directive and are dedicated to maintaining the timeline. So eventually such a person would have to come along and zap them home.
|
I mean... the Star Trek 2009 movie shouldn't have happened given the TPD.
You would think something as big as someone destroying planet Vulcan in the past would show up on their sensors.
Still, I'm hopeful for a new series. I just hope with the younger casting that they don't make it too much like a WB Teen Drama, or like that episode of Stargate SG1 ("200" I think) where they were talking about Wormhole Extreme and the concept of a younger/edgier cast. >_>
[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
The Temporal prime Directive is simply if you should find yourself in the past you should either not interfere or make right what someone already interfered with... In other words don't mess with time less someone already has and you're trying to correct it.
That has nothing to do with the Time police or the Temporal Accords
The time police and Temporal Accords are only important to those people who lived after the 27th? century
So the only people that have to follow the TPD is Spock and Kirk (yes he's there too) and pretty much all goes out the window cuz time has already been messed about to such extremes that it is unlikely that future events would occur...including that which lead to the problem in the first place because without Vulcan Tuvok is unlikely to be born and thus Voyager wouldn't have happened and thus the events that caused the Romulan sun to go boom wouldn't have occurred thus they couldn't go back in time >.> so it's impossible to get back to where it was.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lachlin
I default to the brand name needing fresh blood. If you saw pictures from this past Convention, the *popular* actors are old....in some cases, very old.
|
In a way, this is what TNG was to the original.
There are still plenty of stories available to the Trek universe. The dominion war is over but what happened afterwards? The Cardassians are rebuilding and what kind of problems could come from that? Romulan and Klingon politics have never been very stable at the best of times...
Theres plenty there for a series.
I agree that they could cut back on the "super-mega-spacial -confabulator" style of writing and I'd prefer it if they did. Perhaps its time to go old school and go back to simple, character driven plots.
I'll wait and see but I wouldn't mind more new Trek. It has been a while.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Quote:
Clearly, it isn't, but you go right on deluding yourself. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Clearly it is messed up.
|
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Quote:
So all that bantering back and forth between Kirk, Spock and McCoy about "being human" was all just some massive ploy to fool the viewers into thinking the show was about an exploration of humanity when it really wasn't. Right... gotcha.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Clearly it is messed up.
You are mixing "Mankind" up with "Humanity" |
Clearly, you're a moron.
Quote:
The Trek novel "Watching the Clock", told from the perspective of the Department of Temporal Investigations, does an interesting job of trying to resolve this (along with just about every other time travel continuity problem in the Trek canon...)|
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
I mean... the Star Trek 2009 movie shouldn't have happened given the TPD.
You would think something as big as someone destroying planet Vulcan in the past would show up on their sensors. |
The theory espoused there is that sometimes time travel produces an alternate timeline which can safely co-exist with the "original" timeline. And sometimes the the new timeline will overwrite the old (at least from the perspective of those involved in the incident). Which way it goes depends on the level of quantum entanglement between the two timelines.
The events of Trek 2009 would be the first type. The original trek episode with the Guardian of Forever was the second type. The Federation time patrol wouldn't have wanted to get involved in the Trek 2009 events for fear for increasing the quantum entanglement and turning a "safe" situation into one which might overwrite their own timeline.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
Clearly, it isn't, but you go right on deluding yourself.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miss_Freeze_NA
So all that bantering back and forth between Kirk, Spock and McCoy about "being human" was all just some massive ploy to fool the viewers into thinking the show was about an exploration of humanity when it really wasn't. Right... gotcha.
Clearly, you're a moron. |
"Humanity" is not the same as "Mankind." Shard_Warrior is very clearly confusing the two as if they mean the same thing. "Humanity" is what Star Trek is about, but not "Mankind". Thus the argument that Star Trek can't have an alien captain because it's not "mankind" is wrong. Every race/alien in Star Trek speaks of an aspect of "Humanity"
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shagster
The Trek novel "Watching the Clock", told from the perspective of the Department of Temporal Investigations, does an interesting job of trying to resolve this (along with just about every other time travel continuity problem in the Trek canon...)
The theory espoused there is that sometimes time travel produces an alternate timeline which can safely co-exist with the "original" timeline. And sometimes the the new timeline will overwrite the old (at least from the perspective of those involved in the incident). Which way it goes depends on the level of quantum entanglement between the two timelines. The events of Trek 2009 would be the first type. The original trek episode with the Guardian of Forever was the second type. The Federation time patrol wouldn't have wanted to get involved in the Trek 2009 events for fear for increasing the quantum entanglement and turning a "safe" situation into one which might overwrite their own timeline. |
Quote:
Not exactly true. In the TNG episode Parallels its shown that in the Trek universe alternate timelines can simultaneously exist due to a variation of the many-worlds hypothesis, and in those alternate timelines alternate versions of most or all the main characters exist, some with only extremely tiny differences. In the TNG episode All Good Things three different timelines come together to close the anomaly. They have to be *different* timelines and not different moments in a single timeline because its only due to Q's tampering that the three different Picards are made aware of those events. The Picard of the present doesn't explicitly remember the moment in the past when he closed an anomaly, nor does the future Picard. So alternate timelines can exist simultaneously with the current one, and people can exist in them.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Somewhat true... The problem with JJ Abrams Star Trek is that there are several time travel stories that clearly show all the variations of time travel and how each one works... JJTrek's Time Travel via blackhole could only have resulted in the original timeline being obliterated. The time travel they are suggesting is the multiple universe version and this never happens with time travel in Star Trek.... in fact it can't because people can't exist in other universes, other than their mirror universe.
|
Time travel normally doesn't create an alternate timeline *reachable* by the main characters, except through extreme circumstances. The Abrams timeline might not be *reachable* to the main characters, but that's not the same thing as saying it doesn't exist. Alternate timelines are *sometimes* reachable directly, however: see the DS9 episode Visionary in which two completely separate timelines are reachable, and its ultimately time travel that is the cause of the difference between them (technically, O'Brien tampers with history to save DS9).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Parallels shows multiple universes but also shows that a person from one can not remain n another for very long thus ruling it out as a way that time travel works|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not exactly true. In the TNG episode Parallels its shown that in the Trek universe alternate timelines can simultaneously exist due to a variation of the many-worlds hypothesis, and in those alternate timelines alternate versions of most or all the main characters exist, some with only extremely tiny differences. In the TNG episode All Good Things three different timelines come together to close the anomaly. They have to be *different* timelines and not different moments in a single timeline because its only due to Q's tampering that the three different Picards are made aware of those events. The Picard of the present doesn't explicitly remember the moment in the past when he closed an anomaly, nor does the future Picard. So alternate timelines can exist simultaneously with the current one, and people can exist in them.
Time travel normally doesn't create an alternate timeline *reachable* by the main characters, except through extreme circumstances. The Abrams timeline might not be *reachable* to the main characters, but that's not the same thing as saying it doesn't exist. Alternate timelines are *sometimes* reachable directly, however: see the DS9 episode Visionary in which two completely separate timelines are reachable, and its ultimately time travel that is the cause of the difference between them (technically, O'Brien tampers with history to save DS9). |
All good things shows Q meddling and when Q messing with events all other rules are void because as far as we know Qs can travel forward and backward in time as well as change all events as they see fit. It is impossible to tell whether the events were all just an illusion or even completely controlled by Q or whether the time lines were all part of one universe or several. Not to mention that Time was going backwards which has to be taken into account and Q was merely allowing Picard the perception to see what was happening to see if he could understand that can flow backwards and forwards and to think in that mode of thought as a part of the over arching test that Q was putting him through.
Visionary shows O'Brian leaping between two points in time via a weird temporal drag effect. A second universe wasn't created. He continued to move into the future while the rest of the universe around him fell behind and then he got dragged back, resyncing up... The device used in the end caused a split in O'Brian, not a second universe. The Universe where DS9 gets blown up was a future point within the time stream that was shifted due to time travel... it was never ever a second universe.
If it continues the tradition of adventure like voyager and nextgen then yes.
If it's Star Trek 90210 then no.
Quote:
Next Gen, yes. Voyager, no. Voyager had it's good episodes, but there's nothing that could compensate for the annoying characters on the crew. Not to mention the way the show kept jerking the audience around with the "OMG we found a way home |
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
If it continues the tradition of adventure like voyager and nextgen then yes.
If it's Star Trek 90210 then no. |
Awwww false alarm 
" episodes. I understand that they wanted a way to keep the show going indefinitely, but they chose a gimmick that quickly got old.
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
I recall discussing this with friends and family about ten years ago ... the problem I see with a new Star Trek series is that it's more or less been done before. We've seen adventures on a space ship, we've seen adventures on a space station. They had to add a space ship to the space station because it wasn't working out all that well when limited to only a station.
I guess I have no issue of more of the same, if it's like TNG... TNG benefited from veteran actors (many Shakespearean), and writing that, while not always perfect, had a seriousness behind it that made it special. That went away with Voyager, where it became a soap opera.
That's what worries me the most with a "young fresh cast"... that it'll just become an excessively dramatic soap opera that dispenses with the seriousness that a future space tale should involve. We're dealing with 4-500 years in the future, where we're interacting with other species, some of whom have never been encountered before. It's not even remotely believable that the crew of a spaceship would behave the way young people act in many tv shows nowadays.
I really think the franchise would benefit from older actors, personally. We probably won't get another Patrick Stewart, but we should try.
~Freitag
Kevin Callanan
Community Specialist
Paragon Studios
Season 5 of Enterprise (before it got cancelled) was supposed to show the run-up to the Earth-Romulan War. There was also talk of a movie,