What would you do to make Keyes fun?
By
Agahnim,
Posted on: 2011-08-24 14:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I have run close to 400 trials. I'm not interested in anything that makes any of them produce the drops per time that the Keyes offers. Outside the actual Rare or Very Rare component (which is the progression-related goal people want Empyrean Merits for), we need 300 Threads worth of common drops to craft a single Very Rare. We don't need to make Very Rares, but why would we want the baseline progression to obtain them to at least double?
On top of that, I actually find both the Lambda and the BAF trials fun to run. I'm tired as hell of running just them, but at least I actually do enjoy running them. Not only is Keyes worse reward/time in terms of completion time, but I do not enjoy it. Even if somehow the reward per time of the BAF and Lambda were worsened to match that of Keyes, unless that was done in a way that majorly restructured the way they play now I would still play them to the exclusion of Keyes, because I do not think the Keyes trial is fun.
I would be a lot more interested in them doubling the number of random table shots we get at the end than I am in two Empyrean Merits. But no matter how much they butter up the carrot, I still don't enjoy the trial.
Edit: Actually, I went back to check and I'm closing on 500 trials run, not 400. 227 BAFs and 213 Lambdas, with about 20-25 additional trials for which I lost my records.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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For the bolded part: Then you haven't been paying attention to the last 2 years with what's going on with the AE. We don't need to give more reasons for there to be less overall participants in the Incarnate system.|
Originally Posted by TheProtector
My only issue is this, is that people are deferring to the easiest and fastest trial just to accomplish their goals. Even if they make the trials harder to accommodate characters getting stronger, people will still just run the easiest missions for grinding purposes.
If BAF and Lambda were scaled up in difficulty, it wouldn't stop people from playing Incarnate content, it would just make Keyes seem like a more acceptable choice. People can throw out a lot of reasons why they avoid it, but it all boils down to it being the most difficult and time consuming of the 3. Two Emp Merits already cover the time consuming factor in i21, and whether you enjoy difficulty or not is a personal matter. It's just my feeling if all 3 were around the same difficulty, people wouldn't outcast one of them. I have no idea how Snow Globe thinks less people will play the trials if they were tougher. I guess that speaks more about himself as a person than anything. |
With there slowly being more and more options to get threads, we don't need to give folks reasons to do less trials. And YES folks will do the next harder trials, as after the Underground trial I'm 99.99% certain that the next slots won't be able to be unlocked with anything from the first 5. I can easily see them creating a new currency that you can only get from the new trials beyond the Underground trial, which can only be used to unlock the next two or three slots. Anyone who thinks they'll be able to run BAF/LAM or even Keyes/Underground all the way to Omega slot is naive.
Your suggestion makes no sense.
EDIT: 2 EMP merits makes no sense and will do bubkiss to get folks to run Keyes more when a BETTER (in every sense of the word) trial named the Underground Trial will be launched at the SAME FREAKING TIME. As Uber stated above a BETTER way to get folks to run Keyes more is to up the random roll number to 2 at the end of it. A 2nd chance at a VERY RARE or RARE, OR a SECOND RARE or VERY RARE if your first roll was either, will get more folks to run Keyes.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
We did Keyes in about 25 minutes!
Granted, that whole group did well over 40 runs together, and we were on Ventrilo.
We had League leader call out 5sec before the beam, so we could all stop attacking and get ready to move.
We had one calling out if the terminals were done, and what floor next.
It's not that hard when u really put some effort into it.
Granted, on a pug team, not on vent, will make life harder, but i love Keyes, we love Keyes.. It makes us really WORK!
Only thing i would do different? When time stops, stop the timer for the beam too! We had it a few times that the time froze, and a few seconds later the beam hits us, while we are still frozen. Yes, they should award the Bunker Buster badge right away, and the Alpha and Beta entanglement is something that is a little much, but overall, i say keep as is.
Things WE can do to make it easier:
-Make the Beam Target easier to see: Change rebirth to black/black. This will almost make is see through.
-Lessen the damage of the Pulse: Have a Tank taunt A-M, and have an Empath help/heal the tank. This way A-M will not take damage and the pulse will not cause more damage to us. We had it on most runs that A-M was at 97-100% when we were on 3rd Reactor.
-Disintegration: Have people make binds, "Blaster T3 Disintegrating!" will help look for name and AT in League window, and will let EVERYONE know who to heal.
-MoKeyes? All the above, and get on Vent to make communication easier.
Yes, there is a whole lot going on, makes people crazy, but hey we finally have something difficult, and people complain. :/
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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First congrats.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
We did Keyes in about 25 minutes!
Yes, there is a whole lot going on, makes people crazy, but hey we finally have something difficult, and people complain. :/ |
Second, people aren't complaining about the difficulty of the trial.
Read the thread.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
right now i havent been doing trials mostly due to them being so repetitive, but i wont do keyes trial no matter what now since i have the badges
the ONLY real reason i even ran the trial when it went to live WAS due to the badges, if there were no badges i would not have participated at all because i tried it in beta and left half a dozen of posts about how not fun keyes trial was
i think the main reasons the keyes trial is avoided is because its very tedious (especially leading around AM to all the freaking terminals), and the pulse during the reactor phases is basically screaming "HEAL or GTFO" because if you have no heals or not being near any of the poeple who do have heals, you are going to constantly die, and as mentioned this trial almost forces you to split up to gather glowies, so being near someone isnt an option, and no i dont think spamming green inspirations is fun or enjoyable way to solve this problem
I enjoy Keyes the way it is. It does have a greater learning curve than the other trials, but I have recently been on several runs that only took around 20 minutes. One run only took 17 minutes. I have seen multiple groups able to charge all 10 terminals at Reactor Genesis before Anti Matter even arrives. I have seen a PuG run that succeeded without any single target heals in the league. I have managed to get Master of Keyes twice over. People are definitely getting better at this trial and I have heard from several people that after having been on several smooth runs, their impression of the trial has improved. Please note that I play on Champion, not Freedom or Virtue, and that 80% of the time I play a squishy character.
Despite my enjoyment of the trial, I would not object to some of the quality of life suggestions posted in this thread. Having the time freeze also freeze powers such as Disintegration and the Obliteration Beam would make sense. Increasing the visibility of the player subject to Disintegration, sure, that works. Reducing the timer on the hospital door, while not Keyes specific, would also be nice.
However, I don't see any of these suggestions increasing the fun factor for people who do not enjoy the trial. I see them simply for what they are, quality of life improvements. Adjusting these attributes may appeal to folks who are 'middle of the road' when it comes to Keyes. For the people who really don't enjoy the trial (of which there seem to be many) it isn't going to change the fact that there still exist trial mechanics that they simply do not like. For example, reducing the damage done by the pulse isn't going to change the fact that there is still auto hit damage on a timer that you cannot mitigate. Improving the visibility of the gimmicks during the fight with Anti Matter isn't going to change the fact that the final fight is very gimmick intensive. Reducing the number of terminals per reactor or Power Cells required per terminal is not going to change the fact that this part is repetitive.
Thus, I don't think that the changes suggested so far will make the trial fun for those who do not find it fun. If anything, it will make it less horrible, but won't change the fact that it is still horrible in the minds of many players. The only way to truly address these issues would be either to make the pulse and other gimmicks so mild such that they're virtually irrelevant, or to completely change the trial. Either way, you would have to take away what makes Keyes 'Keyes'.
With this in mind, I do not think Keyes needs an overhaul. It may not be the most popular trial, but there are those that like it. At this point, I think what would be more helpful is to identify what people find fun about trials in general: which mechanics they enjoy and which they do not so that future content can reflect this.
Leader of Renaissance de la Veritas
Moderator of ChampioNexus
Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial
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I feel the need to introduce you to the human race... You don't seem to be familiar with the species' tendencies to take the easiest path. You don't get people that don't like the harder trials to do them by making the "easier" trials more difficult. All that would accomplish is to get those players to stop running the trials that are now more difficult.|
Originally Posted by TheProtector
My only issue is this, is that people are deferring to the easiest and fastest trial just to accomplish their goals. Even if they make the trials harder to accommodate characters getting stronger, people will still just run the easiest missions for grinding purposes.
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Originally Posted by TheProtector
If BAF and Lambda were scaled up in difficulty, it wouldn't stop people from playing Incarnate content, it would just make Keyes seem like a more acceptable choice. People can throw out a lot of reasons why they avoid it, but it all boils down to it being the most difficult and time consuming of the 3. Two Emp Merits already cover the time consuming factor in i21, and whether you enjoy difficulty or not is a personal matter.
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The Keyes trial sucks on many levels. It sucks on several levels:
- Pointless gimmicks (Entanglement).
- Artificial time goals (the last phase originally was 15 minutes in pre-beta, and still had fails).
- Irritating mechanics (Pulse damage).
- Overwhelming players with information (constant text flashes desensitizes players to important warnings).
- Not providing adequate warnings for things that -do- matter (Obliteration Beam).
- Obfuscated animations due to all the player effects (Disintegration Beam).
- Actively showing players that the game will kill them without giving them an opportunity to defend themselves. (Combine any two: Obliteration Beam, Disintegration Beam, Time Stop).
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Originally Posted by TheProtector
It's just my feeling if all 3 were around the same difficulty, people wouldn't outcast one of them.
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Originally Posted by TheProtector
I have no idea how Snow Globe thinks less people will play the trials if they were tougher. I guess that speaks more about himself as a person than anything.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
On top of that, I actually find both the Lambda and the BAF trials fun to run. I'm tired as hell of running just them, but at least I actually do enjoy running them. Not only is Keyes worse reward/time in terms of completion time, but I do not enjoy it. Even if somehow the reward per time of the BAF and Lambda were worsened to match that of Keyes, unless that was done in a way that majorly restructured the way they play now I would still play them to the exclusion of Keyes, because I do not think the Keyes trial is fun.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Edit: Actually, I went back to check and I'm closing on 500 trials run, not 400. 227 BAFs and 213 Lambdas, with about 20-25 additional trials for which I lost my records.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
For the bolded part: Then you haven't been paying attention to the last 2 years with what's going on with the AE. We don't need to give more reasons for there to be less overall participants in the Incarnate system.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
We did Keyes in about 25 minutes!
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Granted, that whole group did well over 40 runs together, and we were on Ventrilo.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
It's not that hard when u really put some effort into it.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Things WE can do to make it easier:
-Make the Beam Target easier to see: Change rebirth to black/black. This will almost make is see through. |
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
-Lessen the damage of the Pulse: Have a Tank taunt A-M, and have an Empath help/heal the tank. This way A-M will not take damage and the pulse will not cause more damage to us. We had it on most runs that A-M was at 97-100% when we were on 3rd Reactor.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
-Disintegration: Have people make binds, "Blaster T3 Disintegrating!" will help look for name and AT in League window, and will let EVERYONE know who to heal.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
-MoKeyes? All the above, and get on Vent to make communication easier.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Yes, there is a whole lot going on, makes people crazy, but hey we finally have something difficult, and people complain. :/
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I'm glad you have a close circle of consistent players to do what you did. Not everyone on every server can say the same.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I don't think they're make Lambda and BAF harder - it's way more likely that the next 5 slots will just need another type of IXP and salvage |
Originally Posted by TheProtector
My only issue is this, is that people are deferring to the easiest and fastest trial just to accomplish their goals. Even if they make the trials harder to accommodate characters getting stronger, people will still just run the easiest missions for grinding purposes.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I think when you look at this kind of thing there is more to be considered than just how easy it is to get rewards. That's part of it, but IMO not the whole picture.
The ITF has historically been one of the most popular Task Forces. I believe this is for a couple of reasons:
- For the most part, the ITF is not out to overrun or kill you. The end bosses were originally considered extremely difficult, but not really for their ability to kill you instantly.
- Elite bosses are mixed in with regular mobs, so its very rare that one character dominates to the point that no one can get a shot in.
- There are multiple valid strategies for running it. You can speed run it, but don't have to.
- The rewards are decent but not completely out of alignment with the rest of the game. Unlike the trials, the ITF does not suggest that the player is hobbling his or her progress in each moment s/he spends NOT running it. The trials in comparison are guilt trains.
- You can get up from total failure and still win, even if it takes multiple tries. There is no constantly ticking timer that throws you out of the TF for taking "too long."
- Because it's set in a time warp, repeating it actually makes sense. The iTrials, Keyes among them, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in the context it's presented, as something you have to run over and over.
- Probably most important: There are a fairly low number of enemies in the ITF who will mezz or seriously debuff you. Most of the enemy abilities are buffs for themselves, not debuffs. Getting mezzed in this game, compared to anything else I have ever played, is absolutely brutal. I personally actually trace a large number of design decisions and resultant game imbalances back to the nature of mezzes being too strong, in particular in the fact that they turn off armor. The ITF is an oasis of mezz- and mostly debuff-free content.
- The defense debuff is perfect. It's enough to make the enemies potentially dangerous but because they have to tap you a few times first, its rarely instant death. You often have time to react.
I'm not saying the trials need to be exactly like the ITF. But at least when I think about what would serve as a good model, it's the first thing that comes to mind.
[Also, I've said this elsewhere, but seriously: IMO the Destiny power was a huge mistake and intimately linked to why the trials are so gonzo. Destiny is outrageously overpowered, so in response the trials have to make us scatter. Players always think they like overpowered stuff until it ends up making the old stuff too easy and the new stuff ignore the overpowered ability. Queue Keyes Island. If this power stays the way it is I expect additional trials to be just as killswitch-y. They are pretty much cornered on that end.]
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Until we meet enemies who have multiple level shifts |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IDestiny is outrageously overpowered
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Esp. as many people are still worried about not getting x reward for particpation if they spend too long in the hosiptal & not being able to attack.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Exactly. If I have to choose between refilling my supply of greens/purples and being stuck for another 30 seconds or going now with an empty inspiration tray, I'm going now. Nobody likes being left out of the fight.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Which in turn makes being able to be killed in the hospital (an old possiblity in the old way siren's call was idiotically first designed, why this is now in pve I have no freaking clue) even worse, and yet another reason folks avoid Keyes like the plague.
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Esp. as many people are still worried about not getting x reward for particpation if they spend too long in the hosiptal & not being able to attack.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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The ITF is popular because you can steamroller straight through almost everything and collect inf/drops/shards/XP by the bucketload, with the only battles requiring a minimum of thought being Computer/Requiem/Rommy and Nictus!Rommy and, as an added bonus, all the instances located within less than a half mile of each other in the same zone. For all intents and purposes, the ITF is a high-level task force farm.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The ITF has historically been one of the most popular Task Forces.
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Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
Well, I helped a league get the Green Stuff badge on Triumph.
I'm not happy about how it had to be done.
Most of the league was told to stay in the hospital and pretty much have the heavy hitters beat on AM. Only I was a bit late telling people to go to the hospital so a few more than I expected stayed out.
Two players stayed away from the main fight but attracted the Obliteration beam more than not. Only 1 of those got into Line of Sight of AM and got targeted with disintegration once.
So, yeah. We did it. I don't consider this badge to be anywhere near the term "fun". It wasn't fun as a leader asking players to sit on the sideline. It wasn't fun for those that were in the hospital. It wasn't fun for those of us battling AM.
Again, I have to ask the developers: Why did you toss out every ounce of fun with this trial?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I enjoyed it long before we figured out how to run it with our eyes closed. When it was still new, it was my favorite Task Force by miles.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
The ITF is popular because you can steamroller straight through almost everything and collect inf/drops/shards/XP by the bucketload, with the only battles requiring a minimum of thought being Computer/Requiem/Rommy and Nictus!Rommy and, as an added bonus, all the instances located within less than a half mile of each other in the same zone. For all intents and purposes, the ITF is a high-level task force farm.
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The only thing that regularly detracted from this was the epic lag. It makes me sad that the lag has only now been addressed after I can now practically run the TF in my sleep, but I'll take it. If nothing else, it hopefully means any future fun TFs will avoid that failing.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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We can't be as far apart on the spectrum cause of this quote.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
This is a MMO, not a bloody First Person Shooter or Real Time Strategy. If you want difficult, play one of those. If you want work instead of playing a game, that is what real life is for.
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Some people want a challenge, to be frustrated, to overcome that challenge and frustration and bask in success in the reward of finishing it.
You are depressed with your Master of Keyes run because of what you had to do to accomplish it? To each their own. I just see that you actually had to coordinate, lead, and struggle through a trial to earn it. I don't find that bad at all. Because I'm a person who enjoys challenges, I rather take that than the opposite. Master of BAFs can be done with random teams and zero chat going on.
I like being frustrated and walking into challenges, and It's something I look for in every game I play. You don't, and that's you. Your opinion isn't correct, and neither is mine.
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Well, to be honest, the "content" is Praetorian related, and I am seriously fed up with Goatee-land's shades of charcoal storyline. There's an enormous volume of Primal Earth storyline than needs advancement, fleshing out, or completion that the Dev team's creative output could be focused on.|
Originally Posted by gec72
Makes sense to me if someone is interested in character progression but not trial content.
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So yes, I'm more focused on progression in the iTrials than the content.
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That's weird, the run I was on that got me Avoids the Green Stuff we didn't need to do any of that stuff. Just went in with a small team, and made sure everyone knew what they were doing and alert enough to not stand around like a fool... no need to have anyone door sit (or hospital sit, as the case may be). And it was actually pretty fun getting the badge.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Well, I helped a league get the Green Stuff badge on Triumph.
I'm not happy about how it had to be done. Most of the league was told to stay in the hospital and pretty much have the heavy hitters beat on AM. Only I was a bit late telling people to go to the hospital so a few more than I expected stayed out. Two players stayed away from the main fight but attracted the Obliteration beam more than not. Only 1 of those got into Line of Sight of AM and got targeted with disintegration once. So, yeah. We did it. I don't consider this badge to be anywhere near the term "fun". It wasn't fun as a leader asking players to sit on the sideline. It wasn't fun for those that were in the hospital. It wasn't fun for those of us battling AM. Again, I have to ask the developers: Why did you toss out every ounce of fun with this trial? |
It seems to me that the one making the badge attempt unfun for you was the team leader, not the devs.
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I'm not depressed. I'm absolutely furious. This trial (the badges and the mechanics) is the most poorly designed piece of garbage I've played in this game.|
Originally Posted by TheProtector
You are depressed with your Master of Keyes run because of what you had to do to accomplish it? To each their own. I just see that you actually had to coordinate, lead, and struggle through a trial to earn it. I don't find that bad at all. Because I'm a person who enjoys challenges, I rather take that than the opposite. Master of BAFs can be done with random teams and zero chat going on.
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It wasn't a Master of Keyes by any means. It was only one badge (though one point we tried to do Bunker Buster). It was the 9th time I did Keyes this weekend to try for the Green Stuff badge (it was too awkward to try for it and Loves a Challenge), and I've been doing between 4-9 every weekend this last month for Keyes. I've decided to take a break for a couple weeks before pushing for the last badge (Loves a Challenge).
Tonight I turned away a lot of players after the 16th because I didn't want to risk the badge. Actually I didn't even want that many, but I felt bad enough that I went with 16 tonight anyway. I'm extremely ticked off that I had to turn people away. On any other trial or task force I have the policy of "Everyone is welcome no matter what skill level you are and bring whatever you want to have fun." I don't usually turn anyone away unless the league is full. I couldn't with this. I can't with the Lambda badges.
To me the purpose of this GAME is to have fun. That means everyone I'm teamed with should be having fun too. Telling them they have to go to the hospital or that I can't take them because I want to cut down the variables lessens my fun.
I can say with certainty that players didn't have fun on this. They might be happy with getting the badge, but I can say that most of the 16 players didn't think much of the strategy.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I've been the leader for these runs. I've tried instructing people, pleading with them, calling out the beams for those that couldn't watch the timer. None of that worked. So, this weekend, I started telling people to go sit in the hospital. Guess what? It worked. I did most this weekend with 8-10 players out during the final battle.|
Originally Posted by Xaphan
That's weird, the run I was on that got me Avoids the Green Stuff we didn't need to do any of that stuff. Just went in with a small team, and made sure everyone knew what they were doing and alert enough to not stand around like a fool... no need to have anyone door sit (or hospital sit, as the case may be). And it was actually pretty fun getting the badge.
It seems to me that the one making the badge attempt unfun for you was the team leader, not the devs. |
For the last two, I followed Arcanaville's suggestion to have only 3-4 players out (neither of us, or the other two chosen were happy about it). It was a bit of a fluke that I asked people to go to the hospital late so they stayed out of the way. Several did go the the hospital though allowing us room to move & see the pathetic excuse for a warning beam (a fuzzy, half-visible disk isn't a good warning).
If would be fair to say that I had some very well known players on this league (especially if you've been on Triumph):
Arcanaville, Blondeshell, Emerald Fusion, Tamaki Revolution, Sayaki, Taryn, Vanden, Fireflyte. I also had players that weren't as well known (if you are reading this and you were on the team, I don't think any less of you than the above players).
Nearly every run had someone that didn't know how this trial was done. I had to turn away plenty of people over the last month to keep the teams small. I couldn't get a stable, consistent team over the last month.
I've had several of these teams try to coordinate enough to get the bunker buster badge, yet nearly every time something happened to fail the badge (most often was not reading instructions). Given that I couldn't choose who I had (ie. I don't have a super group of 24 players to choose from), I did the best I could.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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A lot of this is not even the trial, it's just people unfamiliar with the trial. That's not something to knock the devs because "Every run had someone that didn't know how this trial was done" That's when you blame us as players for not running it as much as the other two so people can become familiar with it, instead we encourage people to stick with their bad first impression and ignore it.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I've been the leader for these runs. I've tried instructing people, pleading with them, calling out the beams for those that couldn't watch the timer. None of that worked. So, this weekend, I started telling people to go sit in the hospital. Guess what? It worked. I did most this weekend with 8-10 players out during the final battle.
For the last two, I followed Arcanaville's suggestion to have only 3-4 players out (neither of us, or the other two chosen were happy about it). It was a bit of a fluke that I asked people to go to the hospital late so they stayed out of the way. Several did go the the hospital though allowing us room to move & see the pathetic excuse for a warning beam (a fuzzy, half-visible disk isn't a good warning). If would be fair to say that I had some very well known players on this league (especially if you've been on Triumph): Arcanaville, Blondeshell, Emerald Fusion, Tamaki Revolution, Sayaki, Taryn, Vanden, Fireflyte. I also had players that weren't as well known (if you are reading this and you were on the team, I don't think any less of you than the above players). Nearly every run had someone that didn't know how this trial was done. I had to turn away plenty of people over the last month to keep the teams small. I couldn't get a stable, consistent team over the last month. I've had several of these teams try to coordinate enough to get the bunker buster badge, yet nearly every time something happened to fail the badge (most often was not reading instructions). Given that I couldn't choose who I had (ie. I don't have a super group of 24 players to choose from), I did the best I could. |
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When I'm not running the badge runs, I do instructional runs to get people familiar with Keyes. On the instructional runs, I make sure I have a tank, a healer and let the rest of the players bring what they want.|
Originally Posted by TheProtector
A lot of this is not even the trial, it's just people unfamiliar with the trial. That's not something to knock the devs because "Every run had someone that didn't know how this trial was done" That's when you blame us as players for not running it as much as the other two so people can become familiar with it, instead we encourage people to stick with their bad first impression and ignore it.
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Funny enough, leagues I've led have failed Keyes (I'm the leader, it is at least partially my responsibility) two times, with one of those failures due to a bug. So a 1/12 fail rate (3 fails total, 36 runs, a few without me leading) isn't bad, considering.
That is why I only asked in my original post for a lessening of the annoying things rather than the gutting the entire trial. By making it slightly less annoying for players, it would get run more.
After all, no one can make a first impression twice, which is what you are asking for.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Reading this reminds me of why I never run "Cavern of Transcendance" anymore.
Heh, I can see the next iTrial, 32 terminals to click similtaneously within a 5 second window. If all are not done at the same time, the trial fails. For added challenge, the mission map is disabled and chat does not function.
Snowy: I do hope the devs decide to fix Keyes.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
I guess I would enjoy the trial a lot more if two things happened:
a) The stoppage of time was made a bit more "fair"... it seems more like cheating than anything else in this game I have experienced... for multiple reasons
b) If there were ANY way to mitigate the damage of the pulses. It makes it seem as though you always need to be standing by a "Healer" or have a ridiculous number of greens on ya. That is not right.
But, let me also say, that I actually like running Keyes (though I have done it very little). It is hectic, and actually requires coordination (which is a double edged sword considering some people can't even be bothered to properly synch AV HP during a BAF without lots of verbal reminders).
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level