Quote:
Arent you that RL Stalker?! LOL
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Originally Posted by SoulTouch
and this
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Quote:
It makes them more relevant than *anything* you've contributed to the thread,|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
NO-ONE has any.
...but that doesn't make your TWO YEAR OLD numbers any more relevant. |
especially since they were published either side of the dreaded PvP 2 release...
I've yet to see a single one of you three "pundits" (Malkore, BWraith and you),
offer any numbers at all - not even estimates.
You're quick to say published numbers are wrong (with the implication that NCsoft
is lying with their figures), and you think my 100K is equally wrong, but apparently
none of you have stones enough to supply numbers of your own.
Of course, that doesn't preclude spouting FUD and Doom in the absence of any
useful information.
So, since you evidently have a far more sensitive finger on the pulse of the game
than the folks who are actually running it, I'll ask you straight up - If those
numbers are wrong, what IS the real playerbase count? Is it 75K? 50K? 20K? 5000?
What is it?
To hear Malkore tell it, if the devs don't fix PvP and you 3, along with the rest of
the (nebulous) PvP community leave, NCsoft will have no recourse but to shut
its doors since there'll evidently be nobody left to play the game...
Amusingly, I went into SC last night... There were 8, EIGHT people (counting me)
in-zone and 6 of the 7 others were names I immediately recognized. lol.
On any given day, there are more folks in Pocket D running BAF's then there
are in all the PvP zones combined... On Freedom...
But, I forget - we're in the PvP forum, where simple sense, rational thought,
and intelligent discourse frequently have little or no place...
So, with that in mind, I'll simply say "Thanks for the warning about the impending
demise of the game -- I'm happy to know that we have experts like you guys
to help us blind folks see the obvious import that PvP has on the game as a whole".
I'll accord this dire warning with all the respect it so richly deserves, by siding
with Slax on this one...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Slax
lol PvP
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I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Four speed
I don't think anyone can provide you with any numbers since only the developers has the correct figures.
And I don't think anyone believes that CoH would doom and gloom even if PvP was removed from this game, but what I do think some people think is that if CoH pvp (and the PvP feedback from players )werent neglected it would draw in more players to the overall population.
Ofcourse someone could aurgue that makeing 10 new animated tails would be better spent development time and draw more new players than any PvP change would.
But since COH is going f2p there will more then likely get "a lot "of new players trying the game and you would think that they will like coh and try out different aspects of the game includeing PvP.
The only issue with that is that right now, and especially ever since issue 13 COH PvP is very exlusive and very casual player unfriendly just the fact that PvP and PvE work under such different systems is a huge deal.
It would need development time to be able to grow and draw in new players.
I'm not going to shoot down your opinion or your take on the PvP population and general CoH poplulation,but you seem to be not useing very good methodes/sources when it comes to measureing the pvp poplulation in this game.
Especially the whole PvP zone count like I would been surprised you found anyone in a PvP zone yesterday with the 2 year maints O.O
I do believe that everyone would agree its nowhere near what it once was but that does not mean i'ts completely dead.
Also compareing the new incarnate poularity with PvP popularity would be like compareing CoH to WoW,one game with almost unlimited resorurces(?) to a game thats doing good for what it is and has a very loyal fan base.(ya might been a super bad example but still!)
It's been what? 2-3 years since CoH PvP got any significant dev time and that was huge fiasco O.o
Also you wanted someone to provied some numbers of somekind and I found this: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=260915
I'm not drawing any conclusions but it might help some in discussing the subject about the CoH population.
Personally I hope CoH Freedom is a huge sucess and boost Coh's population and sales since it has been slowly declineing for some time now,which probably would be the a normal thing for a 7 year old game.
Quote:
You are the one positing the existence of something. (You said there are 100K people playing this game.) The burden of proof is on you.|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
It makes them more relevant than *anything* you've contributed to the thread,
especially since they were published either side of the dreaded PvP 2 release... I've yet to see a single one of you three "pundits" (Malkore, BWraith and you), offer any numbers at all - not even estimates. You're quick to say published numbers are wrong (with the implication that NCsoft is lying with their figures), and you think my 100K is equally wrong, but apparently none of you have stones enough to supply numbers of your own. Of course, that doesn't preclude spouting FUD and Doom in the absence of any useful information. So, since you evidently have a far more sensitive finger on the pulse of the game than the folks who are actually running it, I'll ask you straight up - If those numbers are wrong, what IS the real playerbase count? Is it 75K? 50K? 20K? 5000? What is it? To hear Malkore tell it, if the devs don't fix PvP and you 3, along with the rest of the (nebulous) PvP community leave, NCsoft will have no recourse but to shut its doors since there'll evidently be nobody left to play the game... Amusingly, I went into SC last night... There were 8, EIGHT people (counting me) in-zone and 6 of the 7 others were names I immediately recognized. lol. On any given day, there are more folks in Pocket D running BAF's then there are in all the PvP zones combined... On Freedom... But, I forget - we're in the PvP forum, where simple sense, rational thought, and intelligent discourse frequently have little or no place... So, with that in mind, I'll simply say "Thanks for the warning about the impending demise of the game -- I'm happy to know that we have experts like you guys to help us blind folks see the obvious import that PvP has on the game as a whole". I'll accord this dire warning with all the respect it so richly deserves, by siding with Slax on this one... c ya... |
So far you have been unsuccessful in proving this.
How about we all accept that none of us know anything and stop making stuff up.
I know you think you're "contributing". But all you are doing is just making guesses. In my opinion, that is pure misinformation. I do not find that helpful.
Quote:
You play on Triumph, how would you know?
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Originally Posted by Malkore
I blame Nekoes
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Hotel Desk Guy
@Italian-o
Try? There is no try. Do or do not.
Quote:
Does Triumph even have PvE action anymore?
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Originally Posted by IceGenerator
You play on Triumph, how would you know?
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"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Quote:
Did Triumph ever have PVP ?|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Does Triumph even have PvE action anymore?
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Triumph PVE is rolling along just fine in my experience.
Its easier than ever to get Warburg rockets or Shivans if you choose though.
No idea about arena activity.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
This game has been dying for like 5 years now.
The death throes are quit drawn out.
"Triumph PVE is rolling along just fine in my experience."
I transferred out of Triumph a few years ago; I decided to try villains out around that time and redside was a ghost town. I still have toons blueside there and when I log into AP...I barely see a handful of people, if any.
So I know there must not be any PvP going on 
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Quote:
If you think eight people is a good, or even passable number, there's something wrong here. SC on an off day used to be as busy as RV can get during "peak" hours now.
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Amusingly, I went into SC last night... There were 8, EIGHT people (counting me)
in-zone and 6 of the 7 others were names I immediately recognized. lol. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
yea i remember those off days. squads of flying blasters raiding vill base...|
Originally Posted by macskull
If you think eight people is a good, or even passable number, there's something wrong here. SC on an off day used to be as busy as RV can get during "peak" hours now.
|
zoning out to buff up and pop veng on a dead teamate in zone...
lighthouse TP ganking at vill base...
SC was alot of fun!
Quote:
No, I think it is laughable or pathetic, take your pick.|
Originally Posted by macskull
If you think eight people is a good, or even passable number, there's something wrong here.
SC on an off day used to be as busy as RV can get during "peak" hours now. |
I think PvP is dead...
The *only* point I've been trying to make is that PvP has ZERO bearing on the
remainder of the game, and so, I completely disagree with the second part of the
thread's title.
In short, a few hundred people (ie. the pvp community) has no effect on the
thousands (how ever many actual thousands there are) of players still playing
the PVE content.
Someone earlier mentioned that 8 was ok in zone due to Maintenance that day,
but I'd just finished a full team Manticore run and there were several broadcasts
for ITF and LGTF groups, along with the usual "AE PL runs" - there were plenty
of people on - just none that care about PvP.
Of course, a few folks with extremely short attention spans lost track of the
actual point (and thread title), over debating the game's population (which regardless
of the actual "current" numbers still dwarfs the PvP crowd) ...
I think the thread title is only half right, and the second part is ludicrous unless
an actual correlation can be demonstrated.
Anyway, that horse is long dead, and were it anyone other than you, mac,
I'd have not even bothered to reply at all...
lolPvP sums it up perfectly.
Regards,
4
PS> Would I like the devs to fix PvP? Sure. Will the game die if they don't?
Definitely not...
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Never ceases to amuse me how hard ghost town server people try to get people to roll on their ghost town servers in a desperate bid to gain some semblance of population. You want teams? You want to see another living soul? You know where to roll. Choose responsibly.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
Quote:
Progress.
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
...no effect on the thousands (how ever many actual thousands there are)...
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Quote:
Completely setting aside PvP (specifically I13 and its effects on the game's population) I'm of the opinion that the game's been on a slow but steady decline for the last 3 years or so, both in terms of quality and population. GR brought, far as I can tell, a population spike that lasted about 2-3 months and now it's back to being fairly quiet again. There hasn't really been a good issue since I12 or so (every time some new feature makes its way into the game it's accompanied by changes that crap all over powergamers), but thankfully I21 looks like it'll be changing that.|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
No, I think it is laughable or pathetic, take your pick.
I think PvP is dead... The *only* point I've been trying to make is that PvP has ZERO bearing on the remainder of the game, and so, I completely disagree with the second part of the thread's title. In short, a few hundred people (ie. the pvp community) has no effect on the thousands (how ever many actual thousands there are) of players still playing the PVE content. Someone earlier mentioned that 8 was ok in zone due to Maintenance that day, but I'd just finished a full team Manticore run and there were several broadcasts for ITF and LGTF groups, along with the usual "AE PL runs" - there were plenty of people on - just none that care about PvP. Of course, a few folks with extremely short attention spans lost track of the actual point (and thread title), over debating the game's population (which regardless of the actual "current" numbers still dwarfs the PvP crowd) ... I think the thread title is only half right, and the second part is ludicrous unless an actual correlation can be demonstrated. Anyway, that horse is long dead, and were it anyone other than you, mac, I'd have not even bothered to reply at all... lolPvP sums it up perfectly. Regards, 4 PS> Would I like the devs to fix PvP? Sure. Will the game die if they don't? Definitely not... |
As far as further PvP fixes go, well, we'll see, but I'm beyond caring about that. I don't even play anymore, let alone PvP. Maybe if they make it so I don't rage simply because of awful mechanics every time I try to wander into a PvP zone, I'll wander back instead of spending my time in front of the Xbox.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
PAX was fun, the devs said there wasn't a good "fix" to pvp suggested until recently, and Posi mentioned fixing the things players wanted to be fixed such as TS/DR. He also mentioned the PvP population being a little under 5%, I wouldn't be surprised with about 3-4% at this point. Once Q&A finishes with the big projects (i21 and freedom), they'll be open to test some of the PvP stuff, which they think will get a bit bigger once it goes F2P (very true IMO).
They also stated they don't hate PvP, just hate all the work around it, and I'd believe it, they seem like nice/decent people.
What i'm really curious about is...who made a -good- suggestion around fixing PvP recently? Recently in my mind would be the last 3 months at most, so has anyone suggested something that would really fix everything...and is it a very bad suggestion from the perspective of the PvP community?
If anything, change is coming, good or bad i'm somewhat happy since i've grown bored of PvP and i'm not alone. Anything would be nice, either it would make me stay in a better game or move on.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
I guarantee that the good suggestion will have come from Dr. Aeon. Aka a guy who used to RPVP on virtue and actually knows what players enjoy from their PVP experience.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
PAX was fun, the devs said there wasn't a good "fix" to pvp suggested until recently, and Posi mentioned fixing the things players wanted to be fixed such as TS/DR. He also mentioned the PvP population being a little under 5%, I wouldn't be surprised with about 3-4% at this point. Once Q&A finishes with the big projects (i21 and freedom), they'll be open to test some of the PvP stuff, which they think will get a bit bigger once it goes F2P (very true IMO).
They also stated they don't hate PvP, just hate all the work around it, and I'd believe it, they seem like nice/decent people. What i'm really curious about is...who made a -good- suggestion around fixing PvP recently? Recently in my mind would be the last 3 months at most, so has anyone suggested something that would really fix everything...and is it a very bad suggestion from the perspective of the PvP community? If anything, change is coming, good or bad i'm somewhat happy since i've grown bored of PvP and i'm not alone. Anything would be nice, either it would make me stay in a better game or move on. |
Whether Positron will listen to him...no idea.
Quote:
Maybe Zwillinger actually came through on his promise and brought the concerns and suggestions of the PvP community to the devs and they had a legitimate meeting about it. Just maybe.
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Originally Posted by Sentry4
What i'm really curious about is...who made a -good- suggestion around fixing PvP recently? Recently in my mind would be the last 3 months at most, so has anyone suggested something that would really fix everything...and is it a very bad suggestion from the perspective of the PvP community?
|
Quote:
Why bother when you have been met with silence for years.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
What i'm really curious about is...who made a -good- suggestion around fixing PvP recently? Recently in my mind would be the last 3 months at most, so has anyone suggested something that would really fix everything...and is it a very bad suggestion from the perspective of the PvP community?
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I think its hilarious that posi said that since he is on record saying that he loves the way current pvp works and dr is great because its good for the developers(who cares about players right?)
If anything happens it's because marketing wanted to.
Quote:
If it was Doc A, then I'd have a great deal of confidence in the idea. That guy actually knew how to PvP and what made it fun.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I guarantee that the good suggestion will have come from Dr. Aeon. Aka a guy who used to RPVP on virtue and actually knows what players enjoy from their PVP experience.
Whether Positron will listen to him...no idea. |
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Quote:
However much neglect the devs have (definitely) given to the PvP in this game, I do not think you understand the quote from Positron that you are thinking about. He was saying that the Diminishing Returns system opens up options for developers when attempting to balance PvP. It does. The problem is they do not actually use the system in place or balance it or fix the bugs with the way the math works. The other problem is they have never made an effort to explain the way the system works to the player base. |
Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
Why bother when you have been met with silence for years.
I think its hilarious that posi said that since he is on record saying that he loves the way current pvp works and dr is great because its good for the developers(who cares about players right?) If anything happens it's because marketing wanted to. |
Another concern is whether or not they are blowing smoke about plans to actually work on PvP. I think most PvP'rs are familiar with the other famous quote about how they would work on PvP with all the issues succeeding i13.
I am hopeful, but you won't catch me holding my breath.
Quote:
Hemm the smoke is gone and the coals have been cold for five years. It's way past the time for people serious about PvP to leave. If you're serious about pvp and you haven't left you're either mentally challenged or are too bad to compete in actual competitive pvp in another game. Come back to RV and stop praying for a miracle, us zoners miss you. d;D
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Originally Posted by hemmingway3
However much neglect the devs have (definitely) given to the PvP in this game, I do not think you understand the quote from Positron that you are thinking about. He was saying that the Diminishing Returns system opens up options for developers when attempting to balance PvP. It does. The problem is they do not actually use the system in place or balance it or fix the bugs with the way the math works. The other problem is they have never made an effort to explain the way the system works to the player base.
Another concern is whether or not they are blowing smoke about plans to actually work on PvP. I think most PvP'rs are familiar with the other famous quote about how they would work on PvP with all the issues succeeding i13. I am hopeful, but you won't catch me holding my breath. |
Quote:
Ahem.. we zoners* ...|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Hemm the smoke is gone and the coals have been cold for five years. It's way past the time for people serious about PvP to leave. If you're serious about pvp and you haven't left you're either mentally challenged or are too bad to compete in actual competitive pvp in another game. Come back to RV and stop praying for a miracle, us zoners miss you. d;D
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However much people are competitive in PvP in this game, I don't think most people really take it "seriously." We are here to have fun. There are certainly *a lot* of unfun mechanics in this game, but what people have been saying for years still holds true: The fast paced, fast moving (literally) style of the PvP in this game makes it fun. Being always on the move, spending 10 minutes fighting for an advantage over the enemy team; that makes the PvP in this game fun to me, and I am sure to a lot of others. There is nothing wrong with being serious/organized in order to have some fun.
Granted I do play other competitive games that are designed around PvP, but I still manage to have fun in this game; however much I do not like (weak wording here) the way the devs have treated PvP.
Quote:
Who care about other games.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
...too bad to compete in actual competitive pvp in another game.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgqzE...yer_detailpage