Interesting idea. What if you create a new toon on live, leave in outbreak, transfer to beta, sounds like you'll stay in outbreak then, and presumably if you park it, it'll be there when I-21 goes live.
Now...lets say you complete the tutorial in breakout on beta or after I-21 goes live...will it let you go to Galaxy City at that point? If you do that with a couple toons so you can exemplar down, theoretically couldn't you (eventually) get a toon from level 1-50 and still into galaxy completely after issue 21 goes live. You could even (after a long time relying on shard drops and mailings from other toons) get all of the incarnate slots so far as well.
Granted it would be NO fun cause you would pretty much have to street sweep almost the entire way, and would have to exemplar to another dummy toon to keep the XP coming...IF the completion of the old tutorial takes you to the old galaxy city.
Or...what happens when you go from the old breakout mission into mercy...do you go to the new starting point or the old one? Or is it a completely different mercy island?
I might try that when I get home... 
You know what I'll miss from Outbreak? It's the one time in the game when you get to see Crey doing something other than being blatantly villainous. (A Crey guy named [for some reason] Lt. MacReady helps you out briefly, for those who don't remember.) For a faction that's supposedly all about "evil behind a facade," this is the only example of the "facade" part in the entire game.
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
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I have been a bit vitriolic about the new tutorial, I admit. In all seriousness, though, please try to play it through a couple of times again, and be slow about it. Try to explore (You can't, because there are invisible walls they haven;t even tried to hide). I'd love an actual cool awesome Shivan invasion of galaxy to be the new tutorial. The CoV Breakout tutorial, for example, is quite tense and exciting to me, it feels like i'm in the middle of a prison riot, and it feels like it's ME doing the stuff i'm doing. If Galaxy's Last Stand felt like that I'd be happy. But it doesn't. it just feels...like a cutscene I can run around in.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Guys, even with Nostalgia Goggles on, the old Tutorial Missions are vastly inferior to the new one.
One assumes you will always be a criminal breaking out of the Zig, the other assumes that the First Rikti War ended a couple years ago. They're outdated and I could have sworn people have been complaining about getting railroaded into the story... Still, I guess those "Beat up a bunch of Infected" and "Hey, you looked in this cell!" badges are important enough to start raising Hell about the new Tutorial... |
Players rarely go around street sweeping grey-connning mobs, because its pointless. The Giant Shivan fight feels like that to me. Why bother fighting it when it can't kill me and the jets will kill it anyway?
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Mine's in Freedom Breakout right now...waiting for the apocalypse lol.|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I'm going to create my most lamest villain ever and put him behind bars until he rots. Maybe if other people do this we can have an annual "zoo day" (devs permitting). Anyone else interested?
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Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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The new tutorial is more epic. It does not make you more epic.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, the old tutorials were bore-worth, yes.
BUT, given the mega-massive hype about the new one, I was expecting, not wrongly I think, something a bit more impressive. As it is, it's lightning fast, non-explanatory and also doesn't make you feel 'epic', unless your definition of that is 'letting everyone else do all the work'. YMMV |
These two notions are not mutually exclusive.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Quote:
Could Only happen in Certain Other universes where Cannon Options are Clearly Over-the-top.
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
If only we could fire Statesman out of a big cannon to knock incoming alien-infested meteors out of the sky...
Now THAT would be epic. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
New tutorial's gonna do a far better job of hooking people on CoH than the old ones will. Although I will kinda miss Breakout. But not Outbreak. That one was just horribly boring and I never liked it.
Quote:
If you'll miss Breakout, then Join Us! |
Originally Posted by Xzero45
New tutorial's gonna do a far better job of hooking people on CoH than the old ones will. Although I will kinda miss Breakout. But not Outbreak. That one was just horribly boring and I never liked it.
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Roll up a toon, park it in Breakout, and on Zoo Day, we can all party down at lvl 1! Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Or here is a thought. Make the old Outbreak and Breakout maps zone echos you can go to any time via Oroborus.
Shadowy Presence - Absolutely, positively worse than playing a Kheldian... --Myrmydon
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-in your opinion.... see what I did there?
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
-in your opinion.
To me, the new tutorial feels about as un-epic as...well, exactly what it is; Everyone else doing all the Heroing and me being some sideline watcher. In the start? BaBs and Psyche are single handedly holding back the Shivans. No sweat. Giant Shivan fight? Always gets dive-bombed by Vanguard jets and one shotted. Terrain? Boring rubble that would be worthy of Boomtown. Glance of the Galaxy Girl statue? For about a split second. The new tutorial is grating on me more and more every time I look at the damn thing. If you're going to hype something, at least make said something GOOD! |
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They're already there as missions - you can play them as often as you like |
Originally Posted by Teldon
Or here is a thought. Make the old Outbreak and Breakout maps zone echos you can go to any time via Oroborus.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Not with level 1 characters. And Flower Knight isn't in the Oro version of Outbreak. Bad devs. Bad.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They're already there as missions - you can play them as often as you like
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I dunno if its still in the game files, but my character got booted out of the old faultline when I Logged him in after the new faultline was introduced.
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Originally Posted by Patteroast
Hopefully people parked ahead of time should stay, since I've heard that there are still people in the Paragon Dance Party, at least as of a year or two ago. It's a bug, but a rather long-standing bug, because they don't seem to ever delete zones, just disconnect them. I think the old Faultline and Rikti Crash Site might be in the game files still, too.
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Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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The hero I created on Live and left in Outbreak was still in Outbreak after tranaferring him to Beta, so unless they change something, hopefully the same will happen after I22 hits. |
Originally Posted by CommunistPenguin
I dunno if its still in the game files, but my character got booted out of the old faultline when I Logged him in after the new faultline was introduced.
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I'm partially molified to hear the the old tutorials are going to be available in Ouro.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Quote:
mileage indeed varied, but without dragging on the first level forever, how much content did you really expect them to fit for the time it takes to level between 1-2 and have maybe 3 powers? heck, i usually skipped the tutorial and made that jump in about 3-5 minutes by just jumping a liuetenant hellion and his buddies and dinging right there. reality kind of limits what can be done there unless you want to drag out the tutorial which also would not have struck many as fun.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, the old tutorials were bore-worth, yes.
BUT, given the mega-massive hype about the new one, I was expecting, not wrongly I think, something a bit more impressive. As it is, it's lightning fast, non-explanatory and also doesn't make you feel 'epic', unless your definition of that is 'letting everyone else do all the work'. YMMV |
its about as epic as you can make the time when you have 3 powers(barring vets and that ..modest origin power), no inherent and next to no slots, realistically.if anything its mroe pathetic to me when both competing superhero mmos tried to make us look more epic in the tutorial, and really just made the sig characters look weak and push home the "gameification" of existing characters with established power levels.
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
Not with level 1 characters. And Flower Knight isn't in the Oro version of Outbreak. Bad devs. Bad.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I think the new tutorial is much better and its awesome.
More epic and more superhero feeling. |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
-in your opinion.
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I find the new tutorial to be an improvement w/ the overall game moving forward.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
You can complete the new tutorial using four single uses of Brawl to tag the only actually required defeats in it and then let the NPCs do all the work. You cannot go below 1HP in it, so there's no danger or challenge or need to avoid mobs at all. The encounter with the Giant Shivan is a cutscene that you can run around in if you like.
I was all 'wow, coool' the first time I ran it. But when I slowed down and had a look at its substance, I saw the man behind the curtain lol. Eco. |
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That's kinda funny considering that five years from now... Galaxy will STILL be (just now) getting rained on by Shivan meteors... and refugees will STILL be standing around in Atlas.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Guys, even with Nostalgia Goggles on, the old Tutorial Missions are vastly inferior to the new one.
One assumes you will always be a criminal breaking out of the Zig, the other assumes that the First Rikti War ended a couple years ago. They're outdated and I could have sworn people have been complaining about getting railroaded into the story... |
The new tutorial looks a bit better now, but later on, it will look just as dated. Not to mention that the tutorial is FAR too short to ever be considered Epic under any definition. (Keep in mind that I dislike strongly both of the Tutorials on Live at the moment. Praetoria's is better than either AND the Galaxy one IMO.)
One thing to remember is that I don't think you can really call this a tutorial anymore. It's more like a hook. It's purpose is to make players want to stick around, to show off just how awesome and crazy this game can get. To provide players a taste of the kind of experience they'll be getting if they choose to continue playing.
In terms of actually learning the game, the Devs went a much smarter route and, instead of cramming an entire game's worth of knowledge in between the two shortest levels, they instead spread it out over the course of story arcs that immerse your character in the lore, provide a fun and interesting story and gameplay, and ensure you're not overloaded with knowledge.
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Aside from the fact that 'practically no danger' and 'actually no danger at all' are not the same, I think that a big problem with the new tutorial is that it's just not consistent with the rest of the game, whereas at least the old ones were. Every game mechanic in the old tutorials was the same as for the game proper. XP, inf, inspirations, death. The new one just doesn't feel like or play like the game that comes after it. I think that new players will come out of it and be underwhelmed by having to fight human crims, and probably frequently get faceplanted by them, when they've just apparently easily defeated a GIANT SPACE ALIEN!|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
There's practically no danger in the current tutorial as well. You'd have to go out of your way to die, as in, just stand there and do nothing.
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Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Quote:
Whether they're the exact same or not is irrelevant, dying in the tutorial is practically nigh impossible.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Aside from the fact that 'practically no danger' and 'actually no danger at all' are not the same, I think that a big problem with the new tutorial is that it's just not consistent with the rest of the game, whereas at least the old ones were. Every game mechanic in the old tutorials was the same as for the game proper. XP, inf, inspirations, death. The new one just doesn't feel like or play like the game that comes after it. I think that new players will come out of it and be underwhelmed by having to fight human crims, and probably frequently get faceplanted by them, when they've just apparently easily defeated a GIANT SPACE ALIEN!
Eco. |
The point of the tutorial remains the same, it teaches you the basics of the game. It could stand some tweaking nonetheless, I don't believe they cover why you don't die in the new tutorial, though you do see that Numina mentions the hospital was destroyed.
Easily defeated? I guess, not expecting something hard in a tutorial and especially since you typically have help, whether it's from other players, or the Vanguard.
So in this new tutorial can I round up 4, 6, or 8 - or more - bad guys and attempt to defeat them all before they take me down? Because I can do that in the current ones. It's fun.
Can we do THIS in the new tutorial?
I just did, I'm sure you can as well
Quote:
If you can't be defeated then it's not the same thing.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I just did, I'm sure you can as well
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Plus:
You guys are digging incredibly deep into something insignificant.
BABs & Sister Psyche > Flower Knight
Regardless, a little explanation why you can't be defeated (since they would actually die in this scenario) in the new tutorial would be a good thing. The hospital got destroyed, so they can't use mediporters and the giant shivan is interfering w/ regular teleportation.
One assumes you will always be a criminal breaking out of the Zig, the other assumes that the First Rikti War ended a couple years ago. They're outdated and I could have sworn people have been complaining about getting railroaded into the story...
Still, I guess those "Beat up a bunch of Infected" and "Hey, you looked in this cell!" badges are important enough to start raising Hell about the new Tutorial...
BUT, given the mega-massive hype about the new one, I was expecting, not wrongly I think, something a bit more impressive. As it is, it's lightning fast, non-explanatory and also doesn't make you feel 'epic', unless your definition of that is 'letting everyone else do all the work'.
YMMV