Circle of Thorns: The REAL Problem
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2011-07-30 18:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Actually, it has sparked much conversation. "Conversion" is something the Circle of Thorns do to normal citizens. |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
My friends and fellow forumites, in the past week or so, the Circle of Thorns redesign has sparked much conversion amongst us as well ...
|
I agree that they should probably be prevalent throughout the level range OR have their description changed. However, that description was written back at inception, probably to show that the Thorn Wielders were a step up from the Defender/Archer/Guard type minions, but still minions.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
The thing I always found odd is the Possessed Scientists being level 50+ threats. You'd think the mere humans given powers of Thorn Casters wouldn't be as big a threat as the Mu descended Thorn Wielders but hey, go figure!
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
IMO what is truly weird about the CoT is that the Ruin Mages (I think--the ones with Dispersion Bubble and Earthquake) disappear at higher levels. Outside of their actual level, they are vastly more powerful than anything that comes in that faction later. Vastly. IMO that one enemy is what keeps high level CoT from being a Carnies or Malta. When you factor in the missing ghosts and spirits and their -ToHit, its like CoT got accidentally switched in difficulty between low levels and high levels.
Quote:
A level-5 possessed dude with a magic dagger is probably pretty damn mighty, elite, and terrifying to a normal person, which - bear in mind - player characters aren't. Even the really gimpy ones. |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
And these mighty, elite guardians are fought at levels 5 to 13. What the hell?
|
Quote:
The Orenbangans *may* have a *slight* issue with Mu-descended anything...
|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Mu descended Thorn Wielders....
|
Quote:
Hey don't tell me, tell the wiki.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The Orenbangans *may* have a *slight* issue with Mu-descended anything...
|
"The Circle of Thorns has possessed descendants of Mu for centuries, and has no intention of stopping. Recently, they have begun possessing non-descendants for investigational purposes. When they discovered Portal Corporation's research, they began to possess employees to find a way to break their deal with their demonic brood. The Possessed Scientist have the same powers of Thorn Casters, and are not afraid to use them."
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Quote:
I guess that counts their experiment a success.
|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
The thing I always found odd is the Possessed Scientists being level 50+ threats. You'd think the mere humans given powers of Thorn Casters wouldn't be as big a threat as the Mu descended Thorn Wielders but hey, go figure!
|
I always assumed the Thorn Wielder issue was a case of Linear Warriors Quadratic Wizards.
Over time, the more mundane followers of the Circle get mashed together into just Guides, and everything else you face is either a spirit, demon, or mage.
I do admit though, that the Circle is wonky at times. There are levels where it seems like the group is composed primarily of demons.
Agreed to the OP. Thorn Wielders should be high level, LT class foes that swap ranged attacks and mez out for resistance and melee hitting power.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Ruin Mages is correct. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IMO what is truly weird about the CoT is that the Ruin Mages (I think--the ones with Dispersion Bubble and Earthquake) disappear at higher levels. Outside of their actual level, they are vastly more powerful than anything that comes in that faction later. Vastly. IMO that one enemy is what keeps high level CoT from being a Carnies or Malta. When you factor in the missing ghosts and spirits and their -ToHit, its like CoT got accidentally switched in difficulty between low levels and high levels.
|
I've always thought they should have been a higher level mob. Trying to fight these things at level 12, heaven forbid as a full team where you get multiple in a spawn, is utterly ridiculous.
I remember way back when, making an Earth/FF controller because OMG Ruin Mages were INSANE. Needless to say I was less impressed with the playable PC version. -_-
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
QFT. I entirely skip CoT around the 20s just for this reason.
|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Ruin Mages is correct.
I've always thought they should have been a higher level mob. Trying to fight these things at level 12, heaven forbid as a full team where you get multiple in a spawn, is utterly ridiculous. I remember way back when, making an Earth/FF controller because OMG Ruin Mages were INSANE. Needless to say I was less impressed with the playable PC version. -_- |
@Leetdeth - Virtue | MA Arcs(all challenge arcs): Big Magic Blowout! #369774 | Who Really Cares About This? Z! #509577 | That Meddling King! (teams recommended) #21450
Quote:
I basically do the same. |
Originally Posted by Icy_J
QFT. I entirely skip CoT around the 20s just for this reason.
|
I'll fight them at lower level when it's all Guides, Thornwielders, Energy/Life/Madness mages, but once it gets into Ruin mages and Spectrals I just skip them till the 40s. (Unless I'm playing a Psi character, Spectrals are weak to Psionic damage.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Yeah CoT get nasty around the 20s/30s. All Spectrals (minion and Lt. class) and their stupid -tohit pbaoe...and of course the Ruin Mages...ugh..painful. Then you upgrade to Earth Thorn Casters.
Sure one isn't too bad but I HATED the Earth Thorn Casters when playing my MM...quicksand plus stalagmites nearly killed my pets 
Edit:
Then you move to the 40s/lvl 50. Air Thorn Casters and Fire Thorn Casters....*yawn* 
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Quote:
I'm kinda picturing them as like a lieutenant version of the Praetorian Victoria bots. Just really nasty scrapper types that can crit.
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Agreed to the OP. Thorn Wielders should be high level, LT class foes that swap ranged attacks and mez out for resistance and melee hitting power.
|
Quote:
That might work, my own thoughts on improving them involved basically making them use a sword version of dark melee, lots of tohit debuff, a siphon life with a sword, and possibly throw in something like tenebrous tentacles projected from a sword slash.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
I'm kinda picturing them as like a lieutenant version of the Praetorian Victoria bots. Just really nasty scrapper types that can crit.
|
I also have to agree with other folks that it's not just the Thorn Wielders that can feel oddly placed in the levels, I speak this also as someone who values enemy groups with diversity in their ranks across the level ranges and often find myself wondering what makes certain enemies 'worthy' of making it to the high level game and not others. (For example, why does the succubus (with about three or four powers) go up higher than the hellfrost (who has about five or six)? Why can't we have all these guys together at the high leven ranges instead of just Behemoth, Ice Thorn caster, and Death Mage spam? And why can't heroes get a chance to fight succubi or hellfrosts (I think there's a good reason for for hordelings since they're related to the *spoiler* in Cap Au)? And wouldn't it be cool if instead of fighting Madness Mages at the levels before we had either mez protection, decent mezzing abilities of our own, or the ability to simply overcome their mezz durations with raw damage to fight boss versions of the Thorn Casters?
This overall makes me hope that the Devs could consider slightly more than just a visual revamp of the CoT. They don't even need new powers exactly, just shuffle the level ranges around a little.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
You guys have serious contempt for Circle of Thorns. I am a new player and due to the new costumes I have become a fan of said group. I have a hero toon that will go full circle in order to get Soul Mastery. This will make her a Thorn Blade Wielder that can use the powers of the neither world and she can heal and resurrect herself. Basically I've built my own Circle of Thorns hybrid archetype and am playing as many Circle of Thorns missions as possible via radio missions and soon paper missions.
I have part of her back story written in game on her character profile. She is similar to Akarist in that she became sort of a hero after gaining the power of a Thorn Blade Wielder.
Anyway, that's enough of that because this freaks people out in game. Street Justice did not work out with this concept so I went back to my original Thorn Wielder Concept and now regret buying Street Justice. Maybe I can think of another toon to use it, but I doubt it.
No, the REAL problem is Death Mages have those awesome back spikes and we don't. I just saw those the other day and I was like 'OMG WANT!' Seems we didn't get ANY of the cool stuff the CoT wear... Those back spikes would be an awesome backpack option.
EDIT: LOL, didn't even see this thread was already dead and in the ground. :P
Shadowblaze - Lvl 50 Dark/Thermal Cor, Alexander Kalsoa - Lvl 50 BS/Regen Scrapper, and a whole bunch of other Alts. Global is @Shadowblaze.
Well as long as there is an ACTUAL response here then I will keep this thread going. I also wish there were a few more pieces in this costume bundle. As silly as the hats look I'd go for those too. Had to unlock the one sword they have for a broadsword toon by killing 200 Mages. About 90% of them were killed in Perez park in a two day period due to me having to work.
There are also no Circle of Thorn capes (as far as I know). A Circle of Thorn emote of some kind would be awesome, even though we could sort of count the holding torch emote as a Circle of Thorns emote.
I'd love to see a new badge where we can have one of the Circle of Thorns Hordelings as a pet. First I thought one of the ghosts would be cool, but we already can get Soul Mastery if we go villain side and do the patron arc, so that would be redundant. A pet Hordeling would really make me feel more like I have a Circle of Thorns toon. Also if we could do a series of missions or some kind of arc to get Mages, Spectral Knights, or Spectral Followers to ambush us in any kind of mission just like Void Seekers do Kheldians that would be awesome and this would make your toon become a Circle of Thorns epic.
Okay that's my rant for today.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadowblaze
No, the REAL problem is Death Mages have those awesome back spikes and we don't. I just saw those the other day and I was like 'OMG WANT!' Seems we didn't get ANY of the cool stuff the CoT wear... Those back spikes would be an awesome backpack option.
EDIT: LOL, didn't even see this thread was already dead and in the ground. :P |
I still want my Pope Hat.
Quote:
I agree with this. The death mages are much easier than Ruin/Agony mages. And teh Lt class spectral demon lords can be utterly awful, yet vanish latter on.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IMO what is truly weird about the CoT is that the Ruin Mages (I think--the ones with Dispersion Bubble and Earthquake) disappear at higher levels. Outside of their actual level, they are vastly more powerful than anything that comes in that faction later. Vastly. IMO that one enemy is what keeps high level CoT from being a Carnies or Malta. When you factor in the missing ghosts and spirits and their -ToHit, its like CoT got accidentally switched in difficulty between low levels and high levels.
|
However..the REAL problem with the new cot for me is the color of the new death mages. Pink..now the color of DEATH! Say whaaaat?
Quote:
Im pretty sure there is the floating book emote
|
Originally Posted by Ominous Undead
A Circle of Thorn emote of some kind would be awesome, even though we could sort of count the holding torch emote as a Circle of Thorns emote.
|
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
Quote:
Normal people can push around 50+3 Incarnates like they're cardboard standees. I doubt they're particularly terrified by Thorn Wielders. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
A level-5 possessed dude with a magic dagger is probably pretty damn mighty, elite, and terrifying to a normal person, which - bear in mind - player characters aren't. Even the really gimpy ones.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
CoTs could be brutal all the way to 50 if the Spectral demons didn't stop showing up. I'd like to see Ruin, Madness and Energy Mages up that high as well, just to mix up the mobs that might show up in a typical spawn.
Of course, the biggest beef I have with CoTs is just the fact that I'm playing a Super-Hero game and those losers are refugees from Everquest or something. I don't mind the occasional CoT mission but I generally think the lore, their base maps, their lame lack of respectable archvillains or even memorable named bosses are a waste in this game.
At least somebody gave them snazzy new clothes recently.
Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
My friends and fellow forumites, in the past week or so, the Circle of Thorns redesign has sparked much conversation amongst us as well as earned the consternation of many, but there is a greater problem with the Circle of Thorns than "Stupid, Sexy Energy Mage", one that has plagued the group since the beginning...
The low level range of the Thorn Wielder Minion Class.
Seriously, just read the description:
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!